Making the Museum
A podcast on exhibition planning and design for museum leaders, exhibition teams, and visitor experience professionals.
Episodes
Liminal Space Research, with Dan Clevenger, Monika Smith, and Helen Ho
Museum lobbies have a huge influence on visitor experience. But what makes a good lobby?What is a “liminal space” in a museum? How does research actually work? What does “peer-reviewed research” actually mean? What do researchers hope their outcomes will be? Which department of a museum is even responsible for the lobby, and all the other “spaces in between”?Dan Clevenger (Principal), Mon
“Building a Museum: This is Not a Manual” (the New Book), with Jamē Anderson, Monteil Crawley, Sarah Ghorbanian & Chris Wood
How do you build a museum?How do you build the right project team? How do you engage with community? What does it mean to plan a museum? What does it mean to design a museum? How do you align your budget with your purpose? How do you build the story of your museum project?Jamē Anderson, Monteil Crawley, Sarah Ghorbanian, and Chris Wood from SmithGroup discuss “Building a Museum: This is N
“Serious Fun” at First Americans Museum, with Shoshana Wasserman, Kimberly Rodriguez, and Bill Smith
How do you design for all ages at the same time?What is “serious fun”? Does nature ever go out of style? How do you create content for both Native and non-Native audiences? What do education staff do when a gallery has no text panels? What are “Native sensibilities”? Why is Blue Deer blue?Shoshana Wasserman (Deputy Director) and Kimberly Rodriguez (New Media Specialist) from First America
What Is Sustainable Exhibition Design? with Douglas Flandro
How can we make our exhibitions more sustainable — in every way?Where do we start? What can museum teams learn from sustainability advancements in architecture? What’s a “red list?” What is the difference between embodied and operational carbon? What does it mean to do “design for deconstruction?” And when can we all buy the upcoming “Sustainable Museum Exhibition Handbook?”Douglas Flandr
Inclusive Design Will Change the World, with Sina Bahram & Corey Timpson
One in four people has a disability. Why aren’t we designing museums better for them?What is inclusive design? How does it relate to universal design, or the ADA? Which disciplines and departments have to get involved to make a museum truly inclusive? What happened when the military tried to design for the “average” jet pilot? If we design for better accessibility, are we designing for ou
A Collaborative Approach to Exhibition Making (The New Book), with Emily Saich & Joey Noelle Scott
Is there a better way to collaborate?What’s the secret to good feedback? How do you manage 40 people in a room? Are group facilitators ever truly neutral? Should you tell your teammates their responsibilities, or have them tell you? What’s a RACI chart? If collaboration is so important, why hasn’t there been a book about it — until now?Emily Saich (Vice President of Exhibitions) and Joey
Making the Medal of Honor Museum, with Bassam Komati
Is a museum where experiences happen — or is the museum the experience?Can a museum be designed to inspire? What is the Medal of Honor? What role does a bold design idea have in making a project happen? Does the mission of a museum inspire the people who make it? Can everyone have a mission?Bassam Komati, AIA OEAB (Partner, Viñoly Architects) discusses “Making the Medal of Honor Museum” w
Mission: Collaboration, with Barbara Miller and Danae Colomer
What are the (top) secrets of better collaboration?Is collaboration like a game of ping pong? Or more like ballroom dancing? Is there a better way to disagree? Does having constraints make design ... better? How is an exhibition like a film? And what happens when your project feels — in this case, even literally — like “Mission: Impossible”?Barbara Miller (Deputy Director for Curatorial A
The Art of Choosing a Museum Architect, with Susanna Sirefman
How do you choose the right architect for your museum?Is architecture about more than a building? Is architect selection about more than architecture? What is a design “brief”? Why are museum projects on “elephant time”? Are anonymous open design competitions a good thing? What comes after “good design is good business”?Susanna Sirefman (President, Dovetail Design Strategists) discusses “
Think Like a Children's Museum, with Edwin Link
What if every museum were more like ... a children’s museum?Why is play “agnostic”? Can you design an entire museum for every generation, all at the same time? How are children’s museums like (and not like) other museums? How did they get that way? Wait, could we make an entire exhibition out of nothing but cardboard boxes? What is “co-learning”? And why don’t more museum people visit … o
A Museum Transformed with AI, with Kimberly Beaudin & Geoff Thatcher
What can we learn from one of the most complex AI projects in any museum today? What is the history of AI in museums? Can we add AI to our experiences without a complete renovation? How do you teach an AI about 775 different football teams? How can AI put visitors literally into a story? Is AI accurate enough for a museum? What about bias? Doesn’t AI take away jobs? And how do you specif
Creating Effective Museum Experiences, with Lynda Roscoe Hartigan
What if the secret to better museums was … neuroscience? How can museums inspire human creativity? How much media should be in a gallery — or should there be any? How soon should you get feedback on your exhibition ideas? Can museums help us all “escape the algorithm”? What does knitting have to do with visitor satisfaction? In this episode, we’ll learn some unexpected tricks of the trade
Museum as Lab, with Ann Neumann
What if a museum were more like a laboratory? What if our exhibits were experiments? What if our galleries were more about questions, rather than answers? What if we didn’t fear failure as much? What if scientists, artists, and technologists all created exhibitions together? What happens when you edit an exhibit about editing DNA? Should every project have a post-opening contingency — in
Community Engagement Misconceptions, with Nu Goteh
What if we're doing community engagement … wrong? How long should the process really take for a museum or exhibition? What’s the difference between demographics and psychographics? What does it mean to “move at the pace of community”? Why do community engagement experts sometimes cringe when they hear the word “charrette”? And what exactly does “community” mean?Nu Goteh (Founder and Princ
Playful Engagement, with Ed Rodley
What if we combined immersion, emotion, storytelling — and games? We all want “engagement” … but what is engagement? How can our projects create it? What are the elements that go into it? Can game theory and play teach us how to make our experiences better? What is “narrative transportation”? Why are emotions key to memory creation? And what do Renaissance fairs have to do with museums? E
Sculpting History, with Ivan Schwartz
Can a statue change American history?How do we decide who gets a statue? What happens when you realize how many people deserve a statue but never got one? What’s the difference between a “forensic sculpture” for an interpretive exhibition, and one you’d put in a fine art show? Why are some museums just not complete without a bronze statue of the main characters? Are there “statues of limi
Secrets of Museum Display Case Design, with Stéphanie Bilodeau
How do you make a museum display case disappear?This episode is a masterclass in museum display case design. To the untrained eye, museum display cases look like what you’d find in a gift shop. But under the hood, they couldn’t be more different — and they are 100% unique to the museum world. Secrets we’ll reveal: art envelopes, non-offgassing, air exchange rates, and how glass is never,
Story-Based Design, with Alan Reed
Can a building tell a story?How do you design a glass wall to be ... mist? What if architecture, landscape, and exhibitions were all thought of as one thing? What changes when you etch barbed wire into a handrail? How can the floor plan of an entire museum relate to a nautilus shell? What does “A.D.R.O.I.T.” stand for? We’re going to find out, so notebooks at the ready.Alan Reed, FAIA, LE
Designing with Animals, with Jacqueline Bershad
How would you design an exhibit — if an animal’s life depended on it?What is the number one reason people come to the National Aquarium? When should you take ego out of design? What is a “machine for living”? Which is right: “know-feel-do” or “feel-know-do”? (Hint: might not be the first one.) Why would an aquarium visitor want to hear from the people who take care of the animals? What ha
Making a Memorial Museum, with Alice Greenwald
How do you make an institution that's both a museum and a memorial — at the same time?How are exhibitions like theater? Is a museum a group experience, or a personal one — or is that a trick question? When is it time to trust your gut? Why is collaboration so important? When is a single milk can the most important object in a museum? How can one single, simple philosophy inform everyone’s
A New Community for the Exhibition Field, with Cybelle Jones, Steven Rosen, and George Mayer
Is there an organization for the exhibition field? A new initiative is picking up steam. The exhibition community in the US, some say, has recently gone from having “nearly one” professional organization — to none at all. That’s because of the unexpected 2023 dissolution of NAME, the National Association for Museum Exhibition, a group within the American Alliance of Museums (AAM). But now
The Client Side of Major Projects, with Amy Weisser
“The client’s role is not to solve the problem — it’s to state the problem.”What’s the client’s perspective in major cultural projects? What are “client user groups?” What’s the difference between advocating for the client, and advocating for the project? How do you “inhabit your project?” How might a single gender-inclusive restroom project change an entire institution? Should every proj
Scrappy PR for Museums, with Sarah Maiellano
Can you get big press with a small budget? (Hint: Yes.) For museums, small firms, and independent consultants, this episode is packed with literally dozens of ideas from a master of scrappy PR. What is the #1 tip about PR, if you forgot all the others? How do you get a journalist’s attention? How do you get in the news without something new? Who should be your spokesperson? Is press actua
Six Keys for Unlocking Your Most Playful, Creative Work, with Jonathan Goldstein and Kyle Talbott
Have we lost a sense of playfulness in our work … and could we get it back?In museums for children, why does “analog usually beat digital?” What’s a “climbing structure”? What are design metaphors, and why should planners beware of them? How can exhibition teams better empathize with one another’s fears and concerns? Why should a museum professional or designer “hyper-specialize”?Jonathan
The Money Pie Chart, with Amy Kaufman
How do new museums make money — really?In this episode, we lift the veil on new museum projects and money. What is “the peril of the bicycle wheel”? Is it bad to rely on “anchor funding”? How many kinds of revenue should a new museum project have? What happens if you have the wrong number? (Hint: eh, not so good.) How much money do endowments make? And what’s so magical about thirds?Amy K
Circus Lessons for Museum Professionals, with Jennifer Lemmer Posey
What’s the role of wonder in experience design? What can the circus teach us to make our exhibitions better? (Spoiler alert: a lot.) Could being “with it and for it” be the secret to success for museum projects? How much technology is too much? Can we really design for all five senses? Can an exhibition be a high-wire act — literally? Jennifer Lemmer Posey (Tibbals Curator of Circus at Th
Beyond “Exit Through the Gift Shop”, with David Franke
Do museum stores actually make any money? What are they really for? Can a store act like an exhibition? What does “cap rate” mean? How big should a museum store be? What percentage of visitors go into one, and how many of them buy something? Why should you get an expert to design your store, and what happens when you don’t?David Franke (museum store architect) joins host Jonathan Alger (M
An Economic Planner's Advice to Museums, with James Stevens
Why is economic planning so vital to any new museum project?What happens if you don’t do it? What is “dark tourism”? Why do economists think about audiences? Can a museum have “ROI”? Which is more important, a profitable museum event, or one that advances a museum’s mission? What can economics teach us about how to make our projects better?James Stevens, AICP (Vice President, ConsultEcon,
A Guitar That Teaches Civil Rights, with Michele Y. Smith
What is the “humanities gap” — and why is it a huge opportunity for museums?Why can’t everybody be a philanthropist for the day? What does “cultural literacy” mean, and how can it unlock new approaches to the collections we put on display? Why could a shortfall in humanities funding suggest new ways for museums to be relevant? Why shouldn’t a museum buy products and services from its own
The Questions You Have to Ask Before the Project, with Carolynne Harris (Remastered April 2024)
We might think a design concept is the first step — but it’s not. What do you need to ask yourself, before you even start? What does your community want from your new museum, and how can you find out? What happens when you have funding for 10 staff, but you design a museum that will take 25 staff to operate? What’s more important, the cost of creating the museum, or the later costs of ope
Rethinking Climate Control in Museums, with Roger Chang
Why is “70/50” the gold standard? Should it be? Who decided? Does every gallery really need to be 70 degrees, plus/minus two? Does every storage space really need to be 50% humidity, plus/minus five? Is that a reasonable goal for most museums? At what cost? What’s the difference between “AA” climate control, and just “A”? How much energy could we all save, just by switching down one grade
Embracing Chaos, with Jon Maass
What if chaos in cultural projects is something to embrace, not fear? Can chaos theory give us new insights about how to manage complex work? Are we advocates for the owner of a project, or for the project itself? What are the three things upon which the success or failure of a project depends? Sometimes, is it better to let a few things change, rather than fight those changes for even lo
The New Louis Armstrong Center, with Regina Bain and Sara Caples
What’s the secret to success, when a project lasts years longer than planned? What keeps us going when our work takes more time? How does the subject matter of a project relate to the form of a project? Why should we be thinking equally about the budget for what happens after a project opens? What is the “architecture of delight”? Why do “reverberations matter”? Which is more important: p
Flourishing in Museums (New Book), with Dr. Kiersten F. Latham and Professor Brenda Cowan
What is a “growth mindset” — and why is it more important than ever for our industry?What happens when we combine museology with the fast-growing field of positive psychology? How do exhibition teams get through projects with tough subject matter? Why should we always “put our own oxygen mask on first”? What’s the opposite of love (hint: not hate)? What’s contemplative science? How can we
The Real Bilbao Effect, with Andy Klemmer
Can an eye-catching museum revitalize a city? The answer might surprise you. Getting the right designer is vital. If you don’t like a painting you can put it away, but if you don’t like a building, you can’t take it down. Why is it important to have the goals of a complex museum project fit in a mantra of a few words? What comes first in museum architecture, practicality or creative geniu
Raising the Voices of People of Color in Museums and Exhibitions, with Sierra Van Ryck deGroot and Jinelle Thompson
How can we raise the voices of people of color in museums and exhibitions — and what stands in the way?What is Museum Hue? What constitutes a sustainable museum job, a sustainable career? What percentage of staff at museums are folks of color, and what roles do they have? What do we see happening in the exhibitions that museums create? Many cultural organizations began their DEI initiati
The Near Future of Experience Design, with Neil Redding
What do technologies like the Apple Vision Pro mean for exhibitions and experiences? For people who create cultural destinations, the pace of technology has now become so fast it’s hard to keep up. AR, VR, AI. What’s happening in the “near future” of the technologies that will define our field for years to come? What is spatial computing? Are projection mapping and Pepper’s Ghosts early f
Assembling a Collaborative Project Team, with Beth Van Why
Great projects happen because of great teams. But how do you build that team in the first place?Who should a museum hire first, to start a major project? How do you decide whether internal staff should run a big project, or if you need help from outside? Should you hire an architect before you hire an exhibition designer, or vice versa? Who else do you need, and when? Where can a museum f
5 Secrets of Digital Experience Design, with Patrick Snee
How can we make digital experiences work for all visitors — whether kids or grandparents? Hint: it has to do with recognizing “diverse digital literacies.” When should you bring in a creative technologist? Why should you aim for the strong verbs? What is “sneaky attract mode”? How do you do paper prototyping? Are a lot of digital experiences in museums essentially “sexy browsing”? Are tou
Start With "Who's It For?", with Liza Rawson
What’s the very first question we should ask — before we start our projects? Should we start designing … by designing? How do we make sure we understand our audience, before we start making experiences for them? Why is prototyping so important? How many of our ideas should we expect to survive the creative process? And what does microbiology art have to do with your sense of balance? (Hin
Museum Research: Big Data Meets Thick Data, with Elena Kazlas and Adaheid Mestad
Cultural projects should be data-driven — but which *kind* of data?What’s the difference between the “big data” we all know — and “thick data”? Which is more important? (Hint: trick question.) What does cell phone data have to do with sculpture gardens? What’s a “two-hour ring”? What if we just recorded visitors narrating their entire experience — out loud?Elena Kazlas (Founder, Elevativ)
How to Build a Museum, with David Greenbaum, FAIA
What if there were just five important things to remember when you build a museum? What if the most important one of them all — had nothing to do with architecture? Which costs more in the end: building the museum, or operating the building? (The answer might surprise you.) Is it better to be bold, or to be subtle? What’s the difference between how design teams experience a museum projec
Experiential Tech Insights, with Will Bullins
What’s the #1 thing to know about experiential technology? How long do LED walls last? (The answer will surprise you.) Is a project done when it opens, or are growing pains normal? What happens when you use technology just to have technology? What’s an “integrator”? Is sustainability a thing in experiential tech? How? What missteps waste money, ruin the experience, and let content go sta
"Rapid Experience Design", with Clare Brown
What if there were a better way? Are the normal exhibition planning and design methods actually way too risky — and is there a way to “de-risk” them? Are our concepts not good enough, because we’re not developing enough of them, fast enough? What would happen if we merged effective web techniques like “Agile” with established physical development processes like “Waterfall”? Jonathan Alger
DEAI: Meeting ADA Standards Isn’t Enough, with Beth Ziebarth & Jan Majewski
What’s the A in DEAI, and why are the ADA guidelines not enough anymore? What’s intersectionality? What’s a “user expert”? If ADA isn’t our goal, what comes after? This is a must-listen episode, featuring two of the most important voices in museum accessibility today. Jonathan Alger (Managing Partner, C&G Partners) is joined by Beth Ziebarth (Smithsonian head diversity officer and dir
"Decolonizing Design: A Cultural Justice Guidebook", with Dr. Dori Tunstall
How can exhibition teams help to decolonize design? What are the pitfalls cultural organizations should watch out for in their DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) initiatives? What’s a supertoken and why are cluster hires a better strategy? And what does it mean to approach the process indigenous-first? The new book, “Decolonizing Design: A Cultural Justice Guidebook” offers answers to
The Visitor Engagement Lifecycle, with Samir Bitar
What if the best way to market an exhibition — wasn't marketing?What do we need to do better to help visitors find us in the first place? When they do, how do we engage them? When visitors arrive at our institutions, do they know where to go? What happens to the visitor's experience when we haven't thought enough about the restrooms, the stairs, or the endless line to get something to eat
Learning from "Matters of Experience", with Abigail Honor and Brenda Cowan
Three podcast hosts join forces in a single show to discuss the latest in experience design. It’s a fast-paced three-way session covering half a dozen broad themes, and countless smaller ones. What are we hearing out there? How can we apply it to the work of cultural institutions? Is the biggest creative trend of them all the resurgence of … empathy? Jonathan Alger (Managing Partner, C&am
Behind the Scenes at "Exhibition" Journal, with Ian Kerrigan
What if there were a high-quality, peer-reviewed journal for the whole exhibition community? What if it featured the leading organizations, practitioners and ideas that shape the whole industry? What if back issues for the past 30 years were available — for free to see online, right now?“Exhibition,” the Journal of Exhibition Theory & Practice, published by the American Alliance of Mu
We Are All Temporarily Enabled, with Phillip Tiongson
What if accessible design was for everybody, starting with … ourselves? What if we are all only temporarily enabled? How can a broader philosophy of access benefit every visitor? What does a WWII veteran have in common with a mom carrying a baby? Could TikTok and the rise of “quiet social media” teach us something we missed? Phillip Tiongson (Potion) joins host Jonathan Alger (C&G Par
8 Principles of Traveling Exhibitions, with Carol Bossert
What is this thing we call a traveling exhibition? Do they make money? Are traveling exhibitions the same as temporary ones? How can anyone plan a project for a space they’ll never see? Carol Bossert (Smithsonian Institution Traveling Exhibition Service / Smithsonian Affiliations) joins host Jonathan Alger (C&G Partners) to reveal the “8 Principles of Traveling Exhibitions”. Along th
From Leading Designer to Leading a Nonprofit, with Cybelle Jones
It’s a rare moment when a leading designer swaps jobs to lead a nonprofit member organization. And then has to lead that organization through a global pandemic. What unique insights does an experience like that give you — and what can we all learn from it?Cybelle Jones (CEO of SEGD), joins host Jonathan Alger (C&G Partners) to discuss what she’s learned going “From Leading Designer to
Black Belt Cost Control Tips, with Jonathan Alger
(P.S. Will you be at AAM in Denver? Drop a line if you’d like to catch up there, or see if we can find Phil & Monique at the grab-and-go café.) If a project is over budget, who does the cutting? How early should you estimate costs on a project? What should you do with expensive suggestions? How do you make your own cost estimate? Host Jonathan Alger (C&G Partners) goes through a
A Museum is a Business, with Kris Collins
What’s it really cost to build a museum? How can we find out if a project is financially viable — before we start? What are the most common ways museum projects get in financial trouble?Kris Collins, Managing Director of the Cultural practice group for MGAC, joins host Jonathan Alger (C&G Partners) to discuss “A Museum is a Business”. Along the way: projects of the heart, why you shou
Secrets of Complex Cultural Project Management, with Beth Van Why
How do you keep a huge cultural project on track? How do you guess the future? What’s a contingency — and why is it the difference between success and failure? Project manager Beth Van Why (Becker & Frondorf) joins host Jonathan Alger (C&G Partners) to reveal the Secrets of Complex Cultural Project Management.Along the way: recovering architects, Gantt charts, museum benchmarking
Sneak Peek at the Upcoming “Exhibition and Experience Design Handbook”, with Tim McNeil
What are “streakers, strollers and studiers”? How can we plan better projects using the “attract, reveal, reward” system? What’s a “wunderkammer”? What can we expect in the upcoming “Exhibition and Experience Design Handbook”? Professor, designer, and museum director Tim McNeil (UC Davis) joins host Jonathan Alger (C&G Partners) to preview his upcoming book, “Exhibition and Experience
L.A.T.C.H. - The Five Ways to Organize Any Content (The Podcast)
What’s the best way to organize the content in our experiences? What tricks are we forgetting to try? And what if you learned there were five ways to do it — and only five? Host Jonathan Alger (C&G Partners) does a solo show on “L.A.T.C.H.”, the framework proposed by TED founder Richard Saul Wurman, where there are just five ways to organize any kind of information. Along the way, we’
8 Ways to Be “Phygital”, with Alin Tocmacov
Is everything “phygital”? Are all our projects now neither physical nor digital, but both? How can a “phygital mindset” lead to better experience design? Exhibition designer and “phygital architect” Alin Tocmacov joins host Jonathan Alger (both partners at C&G Partners) to hash out some key principles, in “8 Ways to Be Phygital”. Stops along the way: magic portals, digital architectur
Revealing the Story with Light, with Steven Rosen and Ted Mather
Is lighting art or science?If you’re a curator tasked with lighting design, where do you start? Is lighting about light, or about shadows? If an exhibit ain't lit, is it there? When is a lighting designer's job actually about not lighting things? Lighting designers Steven Rosen and Ted Mather (Available Light) join host Jonathan Alger (C&G Partners) on Making the Museum, the podcast,
Secrets of Creative Collaboration, with Trent Oliver
How do we keep cultural projects from going off the rails, without sacrificing creativity? It’s not impossible. In fact, there are some simple secrets to unlock the process. (Except now they won’t be secrets anymore.) Media design expert Trent Oliver joins host Jonathan Alger on Making the Museum, the podcast, to discuss the Secrets of Creative Collaboration. Trent brings her theatrical e
Six Provocative Questions, with Matt Kirchman
Do exhibits really teach? Do they really present big stories well? Is personalization really a must? Are exhibits getting ... better? Interpretive planner and designer Matt Kirchman joins me on the podcast to debate Six Provocative Questions. Listen in and see what your own answer is to each. But buckle your seat belts — these are called provocative for a reason.Quotable Quotes:“Exhibits
Prototyping With ELVIS, with Paul Orselli
Prototyping saves projects money and time, every time. But how do you do it right? Exhibition designer and prototyping expert Paul Orselli joins me to discuss his proven system: Prototyping with ELVIS. Guest Bio:Paul Orselli, POW! (Paul Orselli Workshop)For over 40 years, Paul Orselli has worked to create inventive and playful museums and exhibits. He is now the Chief Instigator at POW! (
Five Questions Fabricators Always Hear, with Cathlin Bradley
Exhibit fabrication expert Cathlin Bradley joins host Jonathan Alger to discuss the Five Questions Fabricators Always Hear. Guest Bio:Cathlin Bradley has worked in the museum industry for nearly 20 years, holding a variety of roles in museums and the firms that serve them. With a Bachelor’s Degree in Industrial Design from the Georgia Institute of Technology and a Master’s Degree in Arts
Six Secrets of Exhibit Technology, with Tony Warner & Bryan Abelowitz
Audio visual technology experts Tony Warner and Bryan Abelowitz join Jonathan Alger to discuss the Six Secrets of Exhibit Technology. Guest Bio:Tony Warner, CTS-D, LEED AP, CDT, President, Phase Shift ConsultingTony leverages decades of project experience and industry service. Having co-managed a technology practice within a top-five global design firm, he has both a strong grasp of tech
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