The Secrets of Statecraft
Secrets of Statecraft is a bi-monthly podcast hosted by Andrew Roberts that explores how the study of history has influenced the careers and decision-making of public figures. The show also asks leading historians about the impact of history on their biographical subjects. The title is inspired by Winston Churchill's advice to a young American on Coronation Day 1953: 'Study History, study History, for therein lie all the secrets of statecraft.'
Episodes
What Thucydides Can Teach Us About Politics And War | Hoover Institution
Everyone quotes Thucydides—but are we getting him right? Historian Andrew Novo joins Andrew Roberts to explore what the chronicler of Athens and Sparta really tells us about war, democracy, ambition, and human nature. From the disastrous invasion of Sicily to today’s rivalry between America and China, they examine how leaders wield power, how democracies lose their way, and why history’s most memo
Andrew Roberts on Churchill, Napoleon, and the Men Who Change History | Hoover Institution
In this special, crossover edition of Secrets of Statecraft and Uncommon Knowledge with Peter Robinson, Andrew Roberts is the guest and is interviewed by Peter Robinson. Roberts explains why great individuals still shape history—and why Winston Churchill remains history’s ultimate example. Roberts also confronts attacks on Churchill’s record, explains Britain’s decision to fight Hitler in 1940,
Can Palantir and AI Transform the UK For The Better? | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Palantir UK chief Louis Mosley joins Secrets of Statecraft to discuss how the company’s technology is transforming warfare, healthcare, and policing—from supporting Ukraine and NATO on the battlefield to connecting NHS data and helping police tackle crime and misconduct. Andrew and Louis explore the political controversy surrounding Palantir, the extraordinary promise and potential dangers of arti
The Secrets of Churchill’s Diplomats with Lord Peter Ricketts | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
How did Britain’s diplomats help win World War II—and shape the world that followed? Lord Peter Ricketts, former head of Britain’s Diplomatic Service and its first National Security Advisor, discusses the extraordinary men and women of the wartime Foreign Office, from Churchill’s uneasy relationship with Charles de Gaulle to Freya Stark’s espionage work and the creation of the UN and NATO. He also
The Rise and Fall of Empires with Conrad Black | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Historian and author Lord Conrad Black joins Secrets of Statecraft _to discuss the third volume of his monumental _Political and Strategic History of the World, covering the turbulent years from the reign of Louis XIV to the outbreak of the First World War. The conversation explores the rise and fall of great empires, the enduring influence of statesmen such as Napoleon, Lincoln, Washington, Bisma
Secrets of Spin with Media Maestro David Yelland | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Andrew Roberts speaks with David Yelland, former editor of The Sun and co-host of BBC Radio 4’s popular podcast “When It Hits the Fan,” about the hidden machinery of modern power: public relations, political messaging, media influence, and crisis management. Yelland reflects on Rupert Murdoch, the decline of tabloid power, the rise of tech platforms and algorithms, Trump’s “flood the zone” media s
This Is Not America: A British Conversation On Race with Tomiwa Owolade | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Author and columnist Tomiwa Owolade joins Secrets of Statecraft to discuss his bestselling book This Is Not America and why Britain’s conversation about race has become increasingly shaped by American ideas and assumptions. He argues that importing US concepts such as critical race theory, identity politics, and Black Lives Matter into a fundamentally different British historical and social contex
Monarchy as Statecraft: Lessons from Elizabeth II with Hugo Vickers | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Royal biographer Hugo Vickers, author of over 20 books, joins Secrets of Statecraft for a fascinating conversation about Queen Elizabeth II, King Charles III, and the hidden diplomatic power of monarchy. Drawing on decades of access, research, and personal experience, Vickers explains how Elizabeth II used restraint, duty, and quiet persuasion to help heal old wounds—from Germany and Ireland to th
France’s Original Culture War: The Dreyfus Affair | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Catherine Ostler joins Andrew Roberts to discuss her new book The Renoir Girls, which unravels the extraordinary true story behind Pierre-Auguste Renoir’s famous portraits of the Cahen d’Anvers sisters — a tale that stretches from the glittering salons of Belle Époque Paris and the fury of the Dreyfus Affair to Nazi-occupied France and Auschwitz concentration camp. Blending art, aristocracy, scand
Dan Hannan and The Case for Capitalism | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Daniel Hannan joins Secrets of Statecraft and starts with a major announcement: his appointment as the new director of the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA), the pioneering free-market think tank founded in 1955. Hannan reflects on the intellectual legacy of the IEA and argues that the case for free markets, once broadly accepted, must now be made all over again in an age drifting back toward st
Anduril’s Chris Brose on Fighting The Next War | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Christian Brose is the president and chief strategy officer at Anduril Industries (the American defense technology company that builds advanced military systems using artificial intelligence, robotics, and software-driven platforms). He’s also the author of The Kill Chain. In this interview, he argues that despite massive defense spending, the United States is dangerously unprepared for a prolonge
Is Iran at the Tipping Point? with Shay Khatiri | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Shay Khatiri returns to Secrets of Statecraft to examine the internal dynamics of the Islamic Republic of Iran in the current context of war, protest, and long-term political decay. Reflecting on his experience in the 2009 Green Movement and subsequent exile, Khatiri argues that the regime has evolved into a security state dominated by military interests, while losing both public trust and religio
Nigel Biggar, The Professor They Tried To Cancel | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Andrew Roberts sits down with Oxford theologian and historian Nigel Biggar to explore the personal and intellectual firestorm surrounding his work on empire, colonialism, and reparations. Biggar recounts how his “Ethics and Empire” project triggered a coordinated campaign to shut it down, how a major publisher canceled his book at the last minute, and how it ultimately went on to become a bestsell
Dan Wang: Is China Already Winning the 21st Century? | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Andrew Roberts is joined by Dan Wang, Hoover research fellow and the author of Breakneck to explore the shifting balance of global power between China, the United States, and Europe. Wang argues that China’s massive manufacturing capacity, rapid electrification, and relentless infrastructure building are giving it a growing edge—even as Western democracies struggle with regulation, litigation, and
Munira Mirza’s Mission: Get Better Politicians | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Munira Mirza is a former British political advisor who served as Director of the Number 10 Policy Unit under Prime Minister Boris Johnson from 2019 through 2022. She is currently the Director of Civic Future, a non-profit that tries to attract talented people to stand for public office. In this interview, she reflects on her time at the highest levels of British government and delivers a bracing d
The Forgotten Heroes of the Holocaust with Richard Hurowitz | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
What makes an ordinary person risk everything to save a stranger?
Author and historian Richard Hurowitz joins the show to discuss his book, In the Garden of the Righteous: The Heroes Who Risked Their Lives to Save Jews During the Holocaust, which recounts the extraordinary men and women who took immense personal risks to aid people who were being hunted by the Nazis.
The conversation explores unf
The Statecraft of Franklin D. Roosevelt with Historian David Kennedy | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Historian David Kennedy looks at Franklin D. Roosevelt’s leadership by exploring how he guided the United States through the twin upheavals of the Great Depression and World War II. Kennedy explains how FDR reshaped federal power, responded to mass economic hardship, and slowly steered a largely isolationist nation toward global responsibility. The discussion highlights the weaknesses of the pre–N
The Secret Life of Dictators with Frank Dikötter | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Historian Frank Dikötter, author of How to Be a Dictator: The Cult of Personality in the Twentieth Century, discusses the dark psychology behind absolute power. From Hitler and Mao to Putin and Xi Jinping, Dikötter reveals how dictators use fear, lies, and the cult of personality to control not just people’s actions—but their thoughts.
Why do tyrants crave loyalty more than love? Why do they all e
Jews vs. Rome: Barry Strauss on Two Centuries of Jewish Revolt | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Why did the Jews keep fighting Rome for over 200 years — long after the Great Revolt ended in disaster? Hoover Senior Fellow Barry Strauss discusses the epic story of Judea’s rebellions against the world’s most powerful empire in this conversation and in his new book, Jews vs. Rome: Barry Strauss on Two Centuries of Jewish Revolt. From the fall of Jerusalem and the siege of Masada to the guerrilla
American Institutions, Higher Education, Talk Shows, and Nougies with Ben Sasse
Former US Senator and university president Ben Sasse joins Andrew Roberts on Secrets of Statecraft for a candid and very wide-ranging conversation about the state of American institutions and how to revitalize them. Sasse explains why Congress has become weak and dysfunctional, why entitlement spending and debt threaten U.S. stability, and how social media distorts our politics. Sasse also takes o
Around The World With Condoleezza Rice | Secrets of Statecraft
Historian Andrew Roberts is joined by former U.S. Secretary of State and current Director of the Hoover Institution Condoleezza Rice for a dive deep into today’s international hotspots—including Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, rising tensions with China over Taiwan, and the complex relationships between Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea. Their discussion also covers how leaders draw lessons from
Lord (Conrad) Black’s Remarkable Historical Erudition | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The Canadian businessman and peer Conrad Black has published the second volume of his political and strategic history of the world, from 14AD to 1648, and it’s a corker.
Sir Niall Ferguson: Time-Knight | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Sir Niall Ferguson on time travel, Trump bombing Iran, historical counterfactuals, Doctor Who, The Time Lord, using the past to help the present and future, the University of Austin’s revolutionary experiment, ChatGPT, and God possibly helping to split the atom.
Tim Bouverie and the Diplomacy of World War II | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
British historian Tim Bouverie discusses the knotty diplomatic dilemmas faced by Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin.
“Well, He Got Beheaded”: Caroline, Countess of Derby, on her Husband’s Family’s Illustrious History | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Caroline Stanley, Countess of Derby, is an English aristocrat, art historian, and philanthropist. Affectionately known as “Cazzy,” she is married to Edward Stanley, 19th Earl of Derby, and serves as the chatelaine of Knowsley Hall, the ancestral seat of the Stanley family in Merseyside. In this conversation, which also delves into topics ranging from medieval politics to family connections with Wi
Statecraft In An Age Of Strongmen | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
In this unique return visit to Secrets of Statecraft, New York Times columnist Bret Stephens discusses why defending Ukraine is in America’s interest, and reflects on the perils of Western flirtation with authoritarian figures.
Recorded on May 16, 2025.
Daniel Samet on the Realpolitik Behind US-Israeli Relations | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
A new book, U.S. Defense Policy toward Israel: A Cold War History, takes on the revisionists over what happened in the Cold War.
Recorded on April 16, 205.
Motorcycles and Meritocracies with Governor Mitch Daniels | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Mitch Daniels is the former Director of the Office of Management and Budget under Ronald Reagan, the former Governor of Indiana, and the former President of Purdue University. He discusses his life, his influences, and his passion for hogs (of the Harley-Davidson variety).
Recorded on March 21, 2025.
General Lord Dannatt on the Korean War | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The former head of the British Army, Richard Dannatt, discusses an important war that is often forgotten.
Recorded on February 6, 2025.
Jon Meacham on What Makes a Great President | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
America’s foremost presidential historian examines the motivations and careers of Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and George H. W. Bush.
Recorded on January 24, 2025.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali on the Threat to the West | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The bravest of all the free speech campaigners, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, speaks out eloquently on tribalism, Islam, immigration, Trump, her conversion to Christianity, and what it’s like being married to a quite well-known historian.
Churchill’s Vicar on Earth | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Richard Langworth is the senior fellow at the Hillsdale Churchill Project at Hillsdale College, Michigan, and knows more about Winston Churchill than any person living (including me, annoyingly).
The World View of General James Mattis | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
A global tour d'horizon with the former Marine Corps commander and Secretary of Defense General Jim Mattis.
Radek Sikorski Unleashed | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The Polish foreign minister Radek Sikorski is characteristically blunt about his former friend Viktor Orban, the chances of nuclear war in Ukraine, and his enemy Vladimir Putin.
Recorded on October 26, 2024.
John Bew Applies History to Foreign Policy-Making | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Professor John Bew’s knowledge as the biographer of Lord Castlereagh and Clement Attlee and the historian of Realpolitik was put to good use when he became the senior foreign policy advisor to no fewer than four British prime ministers.
Recorded on October 18, 2024.
The Courage of Sir Bill Browder | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
How Bill Browder reacted when Vladimir Putin murdered Browder’s friend and lawyer Sergei Magnitsky.
Recorded on October 11, 2024.
Nataliya Bugayova Explains How Ukraine Can Still Win | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Nataliya Bugayova, Non-Resident Russia Fellow at the Institute for the Study of War, shares her latest in-depth knowledge on how the Russo-Ukrainian War is going.
Recorded on September 9, 2024.
Lord Matt Ridley Gives Us Reasons To Be Cheerful | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The esteemed science writer and author of The Rational Optimist, Matt Ridley, gazes into the future of mankind.
Recorded on September 16, 2024.
The Iranian Mindset | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Iranian-born Shay Khatiri, senior fellow of the Yorktown Institute, explains the (warped) thinking of the Teheran regime.
Paul Gregory’s ‘Friendship’ with Lee Harvey Oswald | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The distinguished economist Paul Gregory recalls his time spent with Lee Harvey and Marina Oswald.
Robert Service on Lenin, Trotsky & Stalin | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The great historian of Russian history compares and contrasts the three monsters of the Russian Revolution.
A Tory Good and True | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Nick True was until recently leader of the House of Lords and Lord Keeper of the Privy Seal. His Toryism hails from an earlier and better age, but still has modern relevance.
Around The World With Dan Hannan | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Lord Hannan draws on his 21 years as a member of the European Parliament for this scholarly and masterly overview of world affairs.
Con Coughlin: Getting Into the Minds of Monsters | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Con Coughlin, veteran war correspondent and Daily Telegraph foreign & defense editor, has written the biographies of Ayatollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein and Bashir Al-Assad. And he’s also gone drinking with Hunter S. Thompson …
Nicolas Sarkozy's 'Certain Idea of France' | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Recorded on June 4, 2024.
President Nicolas Sarkozy on the weight of history on his shoulders when he ruled France from 2007 to 2012.
A Continental Tour d’Horizon with Zeinab Badawi | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The history of Africa over the past seven millennia, and this time from an African perspective.
The State of Israel with Dan Senor | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Dan Senor, host of the “Call Me Back” podcast, discusses the war in Gaza and where it might go from here.
The Mission of Tzipi Hotovely | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The Israeli Ambassador to London speaks up eloquently and frankly for her embattled country.
Toby Young Speaks Freely | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Toby Young, director of the splendid Free Speech Union, discusses his campaign to defend freedom of expression.
Conrad Black’s Extraordinary Magnum Opus | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Conrad Black discusses his epic thousand-page history of the Ancient World up to the death of Emperor Augustus.
The China threat: from TikTok to Taiwan | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Congressman Mike Gallagher on why the West should take the threat of China seriously, from TikTok to Taiwan.
The Sagacity of Elliott Abrams | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Elliott Abrams has had the ear of Republican presidents from Reagan to Trump. Here is what he told them...
Matt Pottinger Sounds the Alarm in Asia | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Former Deputy National Security Adviser and China expert Matt Pottinger takes a clear-eyed view of the threats to peace in Asia.
The View From Inside Israel with Tom Gross | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Tom Gross is an influential British journalist and Middle East commentator who provides cutting-edge analysis on the unfolding Israel-Gaza struggle.
Once More Unto the Breach, with Eliot Cohen | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Former State Department Counsellor Eliot Cohen on how William Shakespeare can explain the rise, rule, and fall of present day leaders.
The varied career (but unvarying principles) of Robert O’Brien | Secrets of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Robert O’Brien has had a large number of demanding jobs, but none more so than being President Trump’s national security advisor.
Rabbi Meir Soloveichik on exceptional Jewish Leadership | Secrets Of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The rabbi of America’s oldest Jewish congregation discusses his new book, Providence and Power.
Getting Inside the Mind of Vladimir Putin | Secrets Of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts and Michael McFaul | Hoover Institution
Mike McFaul, President Obama’s ambassador to Moscow, drew on history to discover what makes Putin tick.
Tony Abbott Speaks Out | Secrets Of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Former prime minister of Australia Tony Abbott is in characteristically forthright form when discussing the past, present, and future of Western institutions.
Lord (Charles) Powell recalls his service as Margaret Thatcher’s closest advisor | Secrets Of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Lord (Charles) Powell recalls his service as Margaret Thatcher’s closest advisor during her three historic premierships.
Defending Democracy: The Life’s Work of George Robertson | Secrets Of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Lord (George) Robertson, Secretary-General of NATO, talks about steering the organization through some of its most perilous moments.
Alexander Downer’s Continual Crisis Management | Secrets Of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The longest serving foreign minister in Australian history, Alexander Downer used his past experience to navigate a series of major crises, including 9/11.
The Past is Prologue for Lord Julian Fellowes | Secrets Of Statecraft | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
The Oscar-winning creator of Gosford Park and Downton Abbey speaks about history, creativity and noblesse oblige.
The Trials of Bill Barr | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Over a quarter of a century separated William P. Barr’s terms as the 77th and also the 85th Attorney General of the United States, serving under two very different presidents.
The Past is Ever-Present for Bret Stephens | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Bret Stephens, the Pulitzer-winning New York Times journalist, on the influence of the past on himself, his family, the Jewish people, and America.
John Bolton’s World Tour | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Former US Ambassador to the UN and National Security Adviser John Bolton considers the global challenges to the West.
Nick Thomas-Symonds and the History of the Labour Party | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
British historian and biographer Nick Thomas-Symonds MP is in Sir Keir Starmer’s shadow cabinet and will play a key role in any future Labour government. Here he speaks about the giants of Labour Party history: Ramsay MacDonald, Clement Attlee, Aneurin Bevan, and Harold Wilson.
History Matters to Sir Trevor Phillips | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Sir Trevor Phillips is the founder of the Policy Exchange’s History Matters project, the UK chairman of the Index on Censorship, and was longest-serving equalities commissioner in British history. Here he gives his characteristically trenchant views on the subjects of history, race, and free speech.
Simon Sebag Montefiore Goes Into the World | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
British historian Simon Sebag Montefiore has written a new history of the World, which analyzes the last 10,000 years of global events through the prism of famous (and often infamous) families.
The Tory Philosophy of Michael Gove | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Michael Gove is that rare thing in politics, a genuine intellectual who is also a very effective politician. One of the longest-serving conservative cabinet ministers, he has served under four prime ministers and twice stood for the premiership himself, but his real metier is as a Tory thinker.
The Architect: Karl Rove on Politics and History | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Karl Rove started his career as a political consultant, eventually helping George W. Bush get elected Governor of Texas and later, President of the United States. In this conversation, Rove discusses his rise through the business of politics, his days in the White House, and his current career as a historian.
David Cameron’s Relationship with History | Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
David Cameron was well prepared to be the British prime minister from 2010 to 2016, after receiving a first-class education at the hands of top historians. He explores how much his schooling in history affected the decisions he took when called upon to make it.
Unwrapping the Enigma, Mystery and Riddle: Stephen Kotkin Explains Russia to Andrew Roberts | Hoover Institution
Understanding the psyche of Russia and the Russians has bewildered Westerners for generations; foremost expert Stephen Kotkin gives some penetrating insights into how to do it.
H. R. McMaster in Peace and War
Distinguished combat commander Lieutenant General H. R. McMaster speaks about his time as President Trump's National Security Adviser, American mistakes during the Vietnam War, his belief in learning from the past to help to think strategically about the present, and finally he discusses what the Biden Administration is getting wrong and right about the Russo-Ukrainian War.
How History Shaped Dr. Condoleezza Rice
From murderous Jim Crow–era Birmingham, Alabama, via the assassinations of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King, to the defeat of Soviet Communism, the past has had a powerful influence over the worldview of Dr. Condoleezza Rice, former national security advisor and secretary of state. She also comments on the life and career of the late Mikhail Gorbachev.
The Statecraft and Spycraft of MI6’s former Chief
Sir Richard Dearlove was Chief of Operations of MI6 from 1996 to 1999, and its Chief - known as 'C' - from 1999 to 2004. He speaks of the effect of Kim Philby's treachery on the Service, Cold War victories against the KGB, James Bond and John Le Carré, and the rosy prospects for British Intelligence post-Brexit.
The Historical Heritage of Bibi Netanyahu
Bibi Netanyahu grew up in a household in which historical discussion and debate was constant, as his father was a distinguished professional historian. Here he discusses what effect the past has had on his life and career.
Seventy Years on the Throne: Robert Hardman Explains Queen Elizabeth II’s Statecraft
On the occasion of her unprecedented platinum jubilee, Queen Elizabeth’s biographer and star Daily Mail reporter Robert Hardman discusses her use of soft power in Britain’s unwritten constitution.
Peter Robinson on the Art of Writing Ronald Reagan’s Speeches
Ronald Reagan was famously known as the Great Communicator. But who helped the Great Communicator communicate? One of them was Hoover Institution Research Fellow Peter Robinson, who wrote Reagan's “Tear Down This Wall” speech — one of the most famous speeches of the twentieth century. If you have ever been asked to deliver a speech in public (or even if you haven’t), listen to a master of the genr
The Influence of the Past on President Iván Duque of Colombia
In his struggle against the FARC guerrilla movement and his efforts to transform Colombia economically, President Iván Duque has had advisors at his side who include Simon Bolivar and Winston Churchill.
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