The Next Move
The Next Move is a podcast about endurance, strength, and long-term health. Host John Paton interviews athletes, coaches, scientists, and thinkers to explore how to train, think, and live better. The show aims to provide insights and inspiration for improving physical and mental performance.
Episodes
“I Sacrificed Years of Performance by Not Eating Enough”—How Lydia O’Donnell Broke Every PB (#34)
Lydia O’Donnell is a New Zealand 10K national champion, a 20th-place finisher at the New York City Marathon and the founder of FEMMI, a running app built specifically for women.In this episode, Lydia shares how years of underfueling, overtraining and pressure to make her body smaller brought her running career close to breaking point. After losing her period and eventually landing in hospital, she
“For the First Month, It Was Only the SkiErg”—How Carolyn Watkins Finished 4th in HYROX North America (#33)
Carolyn Watkins finished fourth at the HYROX North American Regional Championships—just 12 seconds from the podium—despite tearing her hip labrum and spending two months unable to run during the build-up.In this episode, Carolyn explains how SkiErg, rowing, and assault-bike sessions helped preserve her fitness through injury, and how she balances 14–15 hours of weekly training with the final year
“I’ve Got a Treadmill in My Kitchen”—How a Father of Four Became a Sub-56 HYROX Athlete (Ronan Lindsay #32)
Ronan Lindsay is one of the fastest HYROX athletes yet to qualify for the Elite 15, with several sub-57-minute performances—including a 55:58 in London and a 56:19 in ViennaIn this episode, Ronan explains how he transformed his performance by increasing his training from eight or nine hours to 18–20 hours per week, building toward 100 kilometres of running and making aerobic development the founda
Athletes Showing ‘Overtraining’ Symptoms Often Perform Better—When to Push Through Fatigue (and When to Pull Back) (Dan Plews #31)
In this episode, Dan Plews returns for a deep dive into fatigue and recovery, clarifying the difference between functional overreaching, non-functional overreaching, and true overtraining. He breaks down the key warning signs to watch for—including changes in motivation, performance, sleep, and heart rate—and how to interpret them within the context of your training. We also explore the role of li
HYROX Is More Aerobic Than You Think! Joel Jamieson — Morpheus Founder on HRV, Aerobic Development & Strength-Endurance (#30)
Joel Jamieson is one of the leading experts in conditioning and recovery science, known for his work with elite athletes across combat sports, endurance sports, and professional teams. He is the creator of the 8 Weeks Out coaching program and founder of Morpheus, a recovery-based training system used by athletes to optimize performance through heart rate and HRV data.In this episode, Joel breaks d
How Jess Pettrow Built the Aerobic Engine for HYROX’s Elite 15 — From 400m Speed to 20-Hour Training Weeks (#29)
Jess Pettrow is one of the fastest athletes in HYROX, combining elite track speed, strength training, and a relentless commitment to the process. In this episode, she shares how she cut eight minutes from her HYROX time by building her aerobic capacity, increasing training volume, and developing a structured program with coach James Kelly.We break down her 18–20 hour training weeks, the alternatin
Most Hyrox Athletes Are Skipping the Real Foundation of Performance | The Hyrox Training Pyramid (Dan Plews #28)
Dr. Dan Plews explains the Hyrox Training Pyramid—a framework for structuring your Hyrox training from the ground up. We discuss why training volume and frequency form the foundation, how to distribute intensity across the week, and when to layer in threshold work, strength endurance, and race simulations. We also cover tapering strategies, common mistakes athletes make with intensity, and how to
How 16-Year-Old Sam Ruthe Ran a 3:48 Mile — Coach Craig Kirkwood Breaks Down His 60–80km Training Weeks (#27)
At just 16 years old, Sam Ruthe ran 3:48 for the mile — the fastest performance ever by an athlete his age.In this episode, his coach Craig Kirkwood breaks down how it happened: the 60–80km training weeks, the balance between speed and aerobic development, and the deliberate decision not to rush a generational talent.We explore race-day lessons from competing against Olympic champion Cole Hocker,
Q&A: Hyrox Endurance Sessions, Burpee Breathing, Zone 2 with Limited Time & Bodyweight Myths — Dan Plews (#26)
Dr. Dan Plews and I break down what a Hyrox endurance session actually looks like, how to manage breathlessness on burpee broad jumps, and how to structure Zone 2 training when you only have 6–8 hours per week.We also tackle the “lighter equals faster” myth and explore how HRV-guided recovery helps you handle multiple hard sessions without burning out.Send us your Hyrox training questions 👇https:/
Hyrox Requires Incredible Aerobic Capacity! Chris Bayens - Coach to Elite 15 Athletes (#25)
Chris Baynes is one of the most respected coaches in the Hyrox space, working with elite athletes including Josh Van Zeeland and Cole Learn. In this episode, we unpack his training philosophy: why Hyrox is fundamentally an endurance event, the difference between maximal strength and strength endurance, and how heart rate and HRV guide his programming. We explore training density, injury prevention
Stair Stepper + Weight Vest: Dom Sheppard’s Low-Impact Build Back to a Sub-60 Hyrox (#24)
Dom Sheppard is one of Australia’s fastest Hyrox athletes, clocking a 57-minute Open and a 53:56 Pro Doubles — all while working a demanding 9–5. In this episode, we explore what it really takes to train at the top level, the lessons from a humbling World Champs experience, and how smarter recovery-driven training is shaping his comeback.Episode breakdown:00:00 – Who is Dom Shepard, and how fast c
Cycling Is the Best Form of Cross-Training! Why Top HYROX Athletes Spend Hours on The Bike: Dan Plews (#23)
Elite HYROX athletes are cycling more to boost aerobic fitness with less muscle damage and lower injury risk.Dr. Dan Plews breaks down indoor vs outdoor riding, power/FTP testing, and what “good” watts-per-kilo looks like.Plus: how to program cycling for 6–8 vs 15+ training hours/week—and how it stacks up against the StairMaster.Send us your Hyrox training questions 👇https://www.instagram.com/thep
Does Getting Stronger Actually Make You Faster in HYROX? Dr. Adam Storey (#22)
Dr. Adam Storey is a world-class coach, researcher, and HYROX competitor.In this episode, Adam shares lessons from Olympic weightlifting, explains how strength and endurance truly interact, and reveals what hybrid athletes often misunderstand about training and recovery.Connect With Adam:https://www.instagram.com/dr.adam.storey/https://www.endurox.co/Episode breakdown:00:00 — Who is Dr. Adam Store
Protein Helps… But Only If You’re Sending the Right Muscle Signal – Sam Jezak on Senescent Cells, Protein Myths & Longevity (#21)
Samantha Jezak is a biomolecular nutrition researcher completing her PhD at Tufts University, where she studies how diet influences aging at the cellular level. On this episode, we explore the science of longevity through the lens of senescent “zombie” cells, inflammation, and the powerful interaction between nutrition and exercise.We break down protein hype, keto and carb-loading myths, and why w
Hyrox Training is a Dose Relationship! Priority #1: Build Your Weekly Hours! (Hyrox Coaching Corner #1 - Dan Plews)
Dan Plews joins The Next Move podcast for a new Hyrox Coaching Corner series. In this episode, we break down Dan’s endurance and Hyrox background, recap racing in hot conditions at Auckland Hyrox, and explain how pacing, heat management, and station intensity impact performance. We also discuss why many athletes struggle in singles compared to doubles and how building weekly training volume is the
Cross-Training Will Increase for HYROX! Why Elite Athletes Are Training More, But Running Less – Dena & Tom Hogan (#19)
Dena and Tom Hogan are two of the most experienced athletes and coaches in HYROX, with over 40 races and five World Championships between them. As founders of Team Hogan, they coach athletes across all levels while continuing to compete at the sharp end of the sport.In this episode, Dena and Tom break down how HYROX training has evolved since 2020, why endurance and efficiency matter more than max
“Stress Is One of the Biggest Issues We’ve Got”: How Stress Undermines Health and Training — Dr. Richard MacKenzie (#18)
Dr. Richard MacKenzie is an associate professor specializing in human metabolism and a clinician working at the intersection of exercise physiology, metabolic health, and stress. He is the author of Stress Tested: How The New Science of Stress Hormones Can Transform Your Health. In this episode, Richard unpacks what stress actually is from a physiological perspective, how acute and chronic stress
The In-Depth Science of HYROX: What Exercise Physiology Tells Us About Performance - Gommaar D’Hulst (#17)
Gommaar D’Hulst is an exercise physiologist at ETH Zurich and the mind behind the WOD Science YouTube channel, with a background rooted in CrossFit and a growing focus on HYROX and hybrid endurance sports. Through his research and applied lab work, Gommaar bridges elite performance, physiology, and real-world training decisions for functional fitness athletes.In this episode, Gommaar breaks down t
You Are The Expert In Your Own Life! The Surprising Benefits of Hiring a Life Coach - George Hearn (#16)
George Hearn is a life coach who came into coaching through a high-achieving academic and corporate path—studying Geography at Cambridge, spending years in strategy consulting, and then moving into the startup world—before realizing he was more drawn to helping people design intentional, fulfilling livesIn this episode, George breaks down what coaching actually is (and why it’s often not about giv
Strength Changes Everything! No Running To Elite HYROX Athlete in One Year: Gabrielle Nikora-Baker (#15)
Gabrielle Nicora-Baker is an Elite 15 HYROX athlete who came into the sport from a pure strength and bodybuilding background, with almost no running experience before her first race in 2024. In less than a year, Gabrielle progressed from her first mixed doubles race to competing in elite fields. In this episode, Gabrielle breaks down how her strength base accelerated her rise in HYROX, how she tra
A Sub-60 HYROX Is Nearly Impossible Without a Strong Aerobic Base - Owen Silver (#14)
Owen Silver is a software engineer and experienced triathlete who ran a 60-minute HYROX in his very first season of racing. Owen and I also teamed up for the HYROX Pro Doubles in Melbourne, where we finished in 58:52. In this episode, Owen breaks down the training principles that helped him cut five minutes off his HYROX time in just six months.Episode breakdown:00:57 – Why Owen switched from tria
Hyrox World Record Holder: Efficiency is Key for Hyrox! Most Athletes Get This Wrong!(#13)
Pelayo Menendez-Fernandez holds the Hyrox doubles world record, having raced an incredible 48:31 alongside Rich Ryan in Miami.In this episode, we break down the training principles that fuel his performances — from his signature “Hyrox endurance” sessions (long, controlled station work that builds pacing and efficiency), to the small technique tweaks that save huge amounts of energy on race day. P
“Elite Athletes Are Tired All The Time” — Dr. John Hellemans On Why Chasing Peak Performance Drains You, And Why Exercising For Health Fills You With Energy (#12)
Dr. John Hellemans is a New Zealand-based sports medicine doctor, elite triathlon coach, and former champion triathlete. A six-time national titleholder and eight-time Masters World Champion, he also coached Olympians and founded the NZ Triathlon Academy. Known for blending medical insight with intuitive coaching, he completed the Kona Ironman at 60 and was awarded the MNZM in 2020 for services to
“What Happens When You Track Everything?” — Rob ter Horst on Data, Health, and the Future of Self-Tracking (#11)
Rob ter Horst is a postdoctoral researcher in bioinformatics and the creator behind The Quantified Scientist YouTube channel, where he rigorously tests and reviews health and fitness tracking devices.Rob shares how his curiosity for data led him from wearing a simple Fitbit to conducting one of the most extensive self-tracking experiments ever — including over 250 weekly brain MRIs since 2018. We
Iñaki de la Parra: "Zone 2 Training Burned Me Out... Here's How I Train Now" (#10)
Iñaki de la Parra is an Ultraman champion, elite endurance athlete, and entrepreneur.In this conversation, he shares his philosophy on training, recovery, and life design—emphasizing low-intensity training, daily movement, and a long-term approach to athletic development.He talks about transitioning from a high-intensity, burnout-prone training style to one centered around Zone 0 and Zone 1 traini
“No One’s Figured Hyrox Out Yet” — Elite 15 Athlete Rich Ryan on Decoding Threshold Training, Sled Power, and Longevity in the Sport(#9)
Rich Ryan is an Elite 15 Hyrox AthleteWe talk about:* How Rich achieved the fastest sled times at the 2025 World Championships* What athletic backgrounds tend to do best at Hyrox* Why Rich believes threshold training is so key for Hyrox* How Rich has been able to keep on improving at Hyrox into his late 30s* What Rich has learned about competing at Hyrox doubles* Why Rich decided to up his YouTube
Is HYROX a Healthy Way to Train? – Dr. Dan Plews (#8)
Dr. Dan Plews is a world-class coach, scientist, and athlete.In this episode, Dan breaks down his transition from triathlon to Hyrox, how he balances strength and endurance in training, and why most athletes get intensity wrong.We talk about:* Why Hyrox is the perfect mix of endurance and strength* Common training mistakes and how to avoid them* Dan’s weekly structure: double thresholds, strength,
The Norwegian Method, Recovery & The Health-Performance Tradeoff – Dr. David Lipman (#7)
The Norwegian Method Demystified – Dr. David Lipman Joins the Show!Dr. David Lipman has one of the most fascinating careers at the intersection of health, fitness, and technology. A medical doctor, endurance athlete, and coach, David also hosts The Norwegian Method podcast, where he’s had rare behind-the-scenes access to the Norwegian triathlon team that’s been redefining the sport in recent years
“I Wasn’t Even at Max Effort” – How Tim Wenisch Won the 2025 Hyrox World Championship (#6)
The 2025 Hyrox World Champion – Tim Wenisch – Joins the Show!Tim and I sit down for an in-depth look at his incredible World Championship win and the years of training that led up to it. We dive right into the race strategy that helped him dominate the field with a blistering 29:06 total run time—50 seconds faster than anyone else!We talk about:* His "go hard early" strategy and what it was like r
Elite HYROX Athlete James Kelly: “My Ego Got in the Way” — What Went Wrong at Worlds and the Mindset That Will Help Him Bounce Back Stronger(#5)
Elite HYROX athlete James Kelly joins the show just two weeks after the HYROX World Championships to unpack what really happened on race day. We explore the highs and lows of his season, including his race-day strategy breakdown, the lessons learned from going out too hot, and the mental and physical rebuild that followed a challenging mid-season. James shares key insights from his training with c
How Elite Hyrox Athletes Really Train - Anthony Peressini (#4)
In this episode I sit down with Anthony Peressini—engineer, elite HYROX coach, and co-host of the Hybrid Coaching Podcast. Anthony currently coaches more elite HYROX athletes than anyone else in the world, including multiple world championship qualifiers. In this conversation, we dive deep into what it takes to be world-class in HYROX: the blend of strength and endurance, the evolution of performa
Endurance Icon Gordo Byrn: Going All-In On Training, Avoiding Burnout, How To Build a Coaching Business, 30 Years of Writing, And Much More... (#3)
In his late 20s, Gordo Byrn left a high-powered career in finance to go all-in on endurance training. By the age of 33, he had won the Ultraman World Championships.Gordo is one of the most thoughtful voices in the world of endurance. He writes regularly on his two Substacks — Endurance Essentials and True Wealth. Both are well worth checking out.We cover the “why” behind pursuing endurance trainin
The Norwegian Method: Double Threshold Interval Training, Jakob's Hill Workout, Frontier of the Norwegian Method, And Much More - Brad Culp (#2)
Brad Culp is the author of The Norwegian Method, which explores the training methods and cultural philosophy behind the Norwegian style of endurance training—an approach that has produced world-class athletes like Kristian Blummenfelt, Gustav Iden, and Jakob Ingebrigtsen.In this conversation, we dive into the thinking behind double threshold interval training, explore Jakob’s high-intensity hill w
Elite Endurance Coach: “They Trained More… and Got Worse” — The Science of Endurance with Alan Couzens
Alan Couzens is one of the sharpest minds in endurance training. Alan works with everyone from first-time triathletes to world-class pros, bringing a data-driven, long-term approach to getting better. In this conversation, we break down what actually drives endurance progress, why most athletes train too hard and improve too little, and how long it really takes to reach your potential. We also get
