John Kiriakou's Dead Drop
Ex-CIA officer John Kiriakou takes listeners on a personal deep dive into the world of espionage. He discusses his own experiences, including his decision to expose the CIA's torture program and his subsequent imprisonment. The podcast explores what makes a spy tick and why no spy is ever truly an "ex-spy."
Episodes
S3E4 The Body Language of Lying
IN THIS EPISODE SHOW NOTESIf you're enjoying Dead Drop, podcast, please check out the rest of Costard & Touchstone's family of podcasts. They cover everything from journalism to Chinese medicine to culture to self help. Your next great podcast obsession is just a click away! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S3E3 Liars (And Lying) 101
IN THIS EPISODE Welcome to John Kiriakou's Spy Academy! Whether chatting with someone informally or conducting a full-on interrogation, every spy needs to know whether or not the person they're talking to is being truthful with them. To get to the bottom of that, we'll start with defining our terms: what do we even mean by "lies" and "liars"? Whether we call them wh
S3E2 The Whistleblower's Tiger Mom
IN THIS EPISODE Every whistleblower should know one thing before they step forward with their secrets that demand exposing - at some point, the legal system will engage with you. When that happens, each and every whistleblowerl will need a lawyer. John was fortunate enough to meet Jesselyn Radack early in his whistleblower journey. A whistleblower herself, Jesselyn has spent her career working for
S3E1 Whistleblowers & Spies
IN THIS EPISODE Welcome to Season 3! As the title of this episode suggests, season 3 will refocus the podcast on spying and, this season, on whistleblowing, too. We may be in a Golden Age of Corruption, but that's a future Golden Age of Whistleblowing. Whistleblowing is the cure for corruption and one of our goals this season is to make the podcast a safe space for whistleblowers - especially if t
S2E18 Whistleblower's Roundtable with Tom Drake
IN THIS EPISODE We draw the curtain on season 2 with a preview of season 3 wherein we'll ask "What Makes A Whistleblower Tick?" To get us kicked off, John roundtables with whistleblower Tom Drake. A longtime member of America's intelligence community, Tom had just become an official at NSA when 9-11 happened - literally on Tom's first day. But, as America's "War On Terror" ramped up, Tom noticed N
S2E17 How NOT To Make A SPY Movie
IN THIS EPISODE We join with another podcast in the Costard & Touchstone Family - The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast - to explore how NOT to make a SPY movie. John and Alan Katz (he's both the host of The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast and the co-writer/executive producer of this the Dead Drop podcast) talk about the spy TV series and movies that inspired them both when they were kids, in Jo
S2E16 Free At Last
IN THIS EPISODE John's time at Loretto finally comes to an end - but not without a near hiccup. Though he's free of Loretto, he's not free from the federal Bureau of Prisons; John must report every day to "Hope Village", a halfway house - a situation loaded with ways to trip up and land back at Loretto. John begins the process of shaking off the prison persona he had to adopt in order to survive a
S2E15 The Home Stretch
IN THIS EPISODE When John first entered the gates of Loretto Federal Prison, his goal was to use all his training as a spy to survive prison. But, just as with spying, prison can be very unpredictable. In fact, John found that he'd been fooled by one of his roommates - who'd been betraying him from the jump. As he enters the home stretch of his sentence, John doubles down on his mission to use eve
S2E14 The Torture Report
IN THIS EPISODE At Loretto Federal Prison, John can almost see the light of his release date in the not-too-distant future. Returning to the Outside World will mean having to shed the prison persona John worked so hard to create - if only for survival purposes. Meanwhile in the outside world, the suibject of John's whistleblowing - the CIA's torture program - is finally getting its day in the cour
S2E13 The Crusader
IN THIS EPISODE John was hardly the first person to point out corruption in America's penal system. Paul Wright was serving a 17 year sentence for murdering a drug dealer when, in May 1990, he started The Prison Legal News. Prison changes people; it changed Paul profoundly. He transformed from a rudderless young man into a veritable crusader for prison amd legal reform. SHOW NOTESLearn more about
S2E12 Dangerous
IN THIS EPISODE When he first arrived at Loretto Federal Prison to start serving his 30 month term, John expected to serve that term where the judge and prosecutor both advocated that John be in the minimum security camp. But someone at the Federal Bureau of Prisons decided that John was too dangerous - and assigned him to the actual prison instead. John was not even remotely dangerous. Not nearly
S2E11 Unfinished Business
IN THIS EPISODE With his out date - the end of his prison sentence - now starting to come into view (albeit still in the distance), John would have been best served by keeping his head down. But there remained unfinished business - with sevveral fellow prisoners and especially with the Soretto Prison authorities. And then there was all the unfinished business - all related to torture - happening o
S2E10 Food, Glorious Food!
IN THIS EPISODE, meet Joey Casolo. These days, Joey owns a great pizzaria in South Carolina. But, back in the day, Joey was one of the greatest prison chefs ever at Loretto. If you remember from the movie Goodfellas, the Italians weren't interested in the prison chow. Instead they cooked their own food - gourmet Italian meals - all prepared using a rudimentary (and incredibly dangerous) cooking sy
S2E9 Killing Fascism
IN THIS EPISODE: How do you fight corruption when most of the corrupt deck is stacked against you? In John's case, he used his words - and the fact that becoming a federal prisoner does not mean you surrender your rights - like the one to free speech. The prison authorities genuinely feared John's power to expose them and their corruption and plotted endlessly to find ways to silence John and cut
S2E8 Snowden
THE BLURB: While John was serving his sentence, the American government faced the consequences of other whistleblowers speaking their truths about the corruption they'd encountered inside the government. One of the more prominent was Edward Snowden who blew the whistle on the NSA - the National Security Agency - and the fact that it was breaking the law, violating its charter and spying on America
S2 Bonus Episode: Expert Witness
THE BLURB: In this bonus episode, John tells the story of a legal case in which he testified as an expert witness - against the FBI in a case against an accused terrorist. As John learned from personal experience, democracy and secrecy don't always play well together. The people holding the secrets tend to disregard democracy in order to protect their secrets. In this instance, the FBI went after
S2E7 Letters From Loretto
IN THIS EPISODE John arrived at Loretto Federal Prison having promised to write about his experiences for various independent news media outlets. He had no idea just how powerful that connection - John's prison experiences and the news media - would prove. In this episode, John tells the story of how his prison blog - "Letters From Loretto" - became a national sensation and an ever-more-damning in
S2E6 Use Your Words
THE BLURB: Already a succesful, best-selling author when the CIA put John in prison, he quickly realized that his writing - his words - were going to be his super power. John wasn't worried about his fellow prisoners; his training as a spy gave him advantages over them. But the prison authorities - corrupt to their marrow - did pose problems to John. Until they realized just how much of a super po
S2E5 The Abyss
THE BLURB: Frederich Nietsche warned us about staring into the abyss and becoming the monster we most feared. He could have been talking about being in prison. Or being a spy. In this episode, John tells how he increasingly relied on the rules of spying to navitage prison life. But, in becoming a monster in order to survive, the question becomes: when John's sentence ends, will he be able to separ
S2E4 With Friends Like These
THE BLURB: While, on the one hand prison is NOT the place you go to make friends, once you're there, you need to have (and be able to rely on) a tight circle of friends just to survive. In the last episode, John introduced you to some of that tight circle. In this episode, John dives a little deeper into those relationships plus a few others that were essential parts of his prison experience. But,
S2E3 Circle Of Friends
THE BLURB: In prison, nobody helps anybody. Except their friends. In this episode, John will introduce you to his circle of friends, some of whom remained his friend long after they all got out of prison. Relationships that would probably never have happened except for prison can become some of the most profound, satisfying relationships one has. As you'lll hear... SHOW NOTESIf you enjoy this podc
S2E2 Rules Of The Game
THE BLURB: One thing about prison, there are rules upon rules. Upon rules. In this episode, John realizes that he's going to have to live by his own rules in order to survive. Those rules will be entirely based on the rules John learned - and had to live by - as a spy. As John keeps learning, there's an amazing amount of similarity between living life as a federal prisoner and living life as a spy
S2E1 Welcome To Loretto
THE BLURB: In season one, we told the story of how CIA counter terrorism officer John Kiriakou chose to tell ABC journalist Jonathan Ross the truth - that the CIA had tortured and waterboarded detainees like Abu Zubaydah. The CIA went on the warpath against John, finally forcing him to accept a plea deal of thirty months reducible to 23 months in federal prison. In season two, John arrives at Lore
S1E27 Prisoner Ex
THE BLURB: Having been a prisoner despite not deserving that fate, John is extremely interested in others similarly incarcerated. To that end, back before the 2024 election, we put together an episode of a podcast called "Prisoner Ex" where we told the story of Donnie Reynolds, Jr, a young, ambitious Black entrepreneur who got swept up in the US government's failed attempt to catch and prosecute M
S1E26 Did John Le Carre Invent The Modern Spy?
THE BLURB: In this episode, we ask a question: did author and ex-spy John Le Carre invent the modern spy by channeling his experiences as a Cold War spy into novels like "The Spy Who Came In From The Cold", "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy", "The Night Manager, The Constant Gardner, Russia House and The Little Drummer Girl? What about real spies did le Carre capture that makes real spies respond to h
S1E25 The Whistleblower
THE BLURB: As John's date with prison looms, he begins prepping - financially and mentally. In the end, John's plea deal would put him inside for 30 months reduceable to 23. At least it would be in a relatively benign, low security work camp setting. That was what the prosecution agreed to! Meanwhile, public opinion about John begins to shift; They go from seeing him as a pariah to a whistleblower
S1E24 Moment Of Truth
THE BLURB: John demanding to see his lawyer saved him getting arrested on the spot. Almost all of the government's case against John was nonsense - which John and his lawyers wanted to prove in court. But, one of the government's charges against John had the very real potential to stick. In the end, the economic pressures won out. Still, if John was going to prison, he'd be doing it both in style
S1E23 Good Company, Bad Company
THE BLURB: John wasn't the only CIA officer who refused training in the CIA's new "enhanced interrogation" techniques - despite assurances from the CIA's legal team. This episode's guest, author and former CIA officer Glenn Carle spent two decades in the agency. Like John, Glenn broke with the CIA over the subject of torture. Glenn was part of a team interrogating another high value Al Qaeda targe
S1E22 The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
THE BLURB: John finds that working in the private sector (doing corporate intel at Deloitte and Touche) for big money, perks and benefits has its advantages over working a lot more for a lot less at the agency. Then one day - when everything's going gangbusters for John, he gets a call from Brian Ross at ABC News. And everything changes. But, how did Ross find John? And why was the news media so s
S1E21 End Of Times
THE BLURB: Everything must end - including a CIA career. While John had planned to make a lifetime career of the agency, circumstances dictated otherwise. So, to a large degree, did his new immediate boss-from-hell. In this episode, John begins to suss out a new, post-CIA life just over the horizon. The problem will be getting out of the CIA in one piece.SHOW NOTESFor more great podcasts like Dead
S1E20 Changes
THE BLURB: Returning from the mission in Pakistan, John decided his kids needed him to stay closer to home for a whie. He applied for and got a domestic assignment. The problem? His new boss, a pencil-pusher named Mary Margaret hated him and did everything she could think of to prove it.SHOW NOTESFor more great podcasts like Dead Drop, please visit https://costardandtouchstone.com/ Hosted on Acast
S1E19 Torture
THE BLURB: If this story has a heart of darkness, this is it. How did American policy find its way to legitimizing torture? In this episode, we'll take you down that terrible road. America became a torturer because certain people - including then Vice President Dick Cheney - wanted us to be that thing. We'll also describe how the Bush Administration's wordplay, dancing around the word "torture", m
S1E18 Cross Currents
THE BLURB: After John watched Abu Zubaydah's plane rendition him to what turned out to be a black site in Thailad, he still had lots of other terrorists to interrogate. He felt contrite after getting overly physical with a detainee - but no one else in the chain of command felt John had been out of line. Returning stateside, John is approached by the agency. They want to know if he's interested in
S1E17 Zain
THE BLURB: For 70 hours, almost three days, John was responsible for handling Abu Zubaydah, the terrorist the agency believed was Al Qaeda's number three. Though their time togeter was relatively short - and Zain (Abu Zubaydah's actual name) spent much of it unconscious - John did manage to build a human connection with him and began to appreciate the person inside the nom de guerre. Zain is rendi
S1E16 Captured
THE BLURB: The hunt for Al Qaeda's number three, an elusive terrorist with the nom de guerre Abu Zubaydah, intensifies but seems to go nowhere. The team scoops up lots of smaller prey, but can never seem to pin down Abu Zubaydah himself. And then an anonymous walk-in tip leads to a (literal) phone line which leads to... Abu Zubaydah? SHOW NOTESFor more great podcasts like Dead Drop, please visit
S1E15 The Hunt Begins
THE BLURB: John lands in Pakistan where the hunt for Al Qaeda's leadership begins with the hunt for the perfect safe house. John also begins to coordinate his team with Pakistani intelligence (not a very trusting relationship). And then a tip comes in: Al Qaeda's number three, a terrorist with the nom de guerre Abu Zubaydah, has been spotted in Pakistan. John is tasked with coming up with the plan
Mini Episode 5 Betrayal
THE BLURB: Aldrich Ames was a CIA counterintelligence officer who was convicted of espionage on behalf of the soviet Union and Russia in 1994. Ames was responsible for the arrest and eventual execution of numerous Soviet and Russian officials secretly working on behalf of US intellifence, and had compromised more highly classified CIA assets than any other intelligence officer at the time of his a
S1E14 Game On
THE BLURB: With America - and the CIA - at war, everyone wants to fight, especially John. But, his skill sets aren't the required ones as the War On Terror begins. The CIA, it turns out, had an actual plan to deal with Osama bin Laden. After settling some old business back in Greece, John begins to work on the CTC's leadership, looking for a way to in to Afghanistan. And then one opens up... SHOW
S1E13 Hostages
THE BLURB: After Joanne kidnaps John's two sons - instead of making them available for his six weeks summer vacation with them - John uses his espionage skills to track them all down. Hothead that he is, rather than wait for the legal system to work to his benefit, John nearly ruins everything by iniating a "hostage situation" of his own. At work, John's time in the penalty box is about to get tru
S1E12 The Grind
THE BLURB: Back in America, John settles in to a year or so "in the penalty box" because of what happened in Athens. John's divorce from Joanne gets complicated by Joanne's brinksmanship. But John does what he must to keep himself in his sons' life. Despite all the Life complications, John scores a small succuss at work. Whatever joy that produces gets undercut when Joanne kidnaps the boys. SHOW
S1E11 Have Human Spies Become Obsolete?
THE BLURB: In this episode, John chats with former CIA officer turned wildly successful novelist BARRY EISLER about spying and how it lends itself to storytelling. After a three year stint as a covert officer in the CIA’s Directorate of Operations, Barry worked as a technology lawyer and startup executive in Silicon Valley and Japan, earned a black belt at the Kodokan Judo Institute and began writ
S1E10 Blind Spot
THE BLURB: John's assignment in Athens comes to a head when an assassination attempt on him goes awry with tragic results. But that merely compounds the situation at home when John learns - from his 6 year old son - that his wife's been cheating on him. SHOW NOTESFor more great podcasts like Dead Drop, please visit https://costardandtouchstone.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more i
S1E9 The Hothead
THE BLURB: The very things that made Athens a great counter-terrorism assignment also made it incredibly dangerous. John's intensive training was designed to make him paranoid. It succeeded. Not all threats were terrorism. Some were just local criminals being criminals. Still, living in Athens was mostly a joy. There was ample good food and culture. But the threat of violence was both persistent a
S1E8 The James Bond Academy
THE BLURB: When John turned his back on being a deskbound analyst in favor of risking his neck out in the field, he knew he'd made the right decision. Blowing things up - including cars - and playing spy games made him incredibly happy. Who wouldn't be happy? In this episode, John takes you way behind the scenes at the CIA's "James Bond Academy" - an actual place (just not with that name) where th
S1E7 The Shadow Of Richard Welch
THE BLURB: On the one hand, being assigned to handle counter-terrorism in Athens was a dream job. On the other, it had nightmarish implications and very real dangers up to and including assassination. That's what happened to a former Athens station chief, the highly regarded Richard Welch. A Greek terrorist group assassinated Welch outside his residence after he attended a Christmas party. In this
Mini Episode 4: Grave Concerns
THE BLURB: Both spying and the subject of this episode - cemeteries - piqued John's youthful curiosity at roughly the same age. Spying, of course, became John's vocation. But John's love for cemeteries - especially for the people buried in them - became a very happy ridealong. Working around the world for the CIA meant visiting cemeteries around the world. In this episode, we preview "GRAVE CONCER
S1E6 A Failure Of Analysis
THE BLURB: When his assignment to Bahrain ends, John finds himself back at CIA HQ in Langley, settling in to life as an analyst - a bored drone at a boring desk. It doesn't take long for John to hanker instead for something more satisfying: something in operations - out in the field. Something a little more dangerous... SHOW NOTESFor more great podcasts like Dead Drop, please visit https://costard
Mini Episode 3: A Spy's Guide To... Sofia
THE BLURB: In this episode, we preview a new podcast series that we'll start dropping in Spring 2026 - "A Spy's Guide To" which will look at the great cities of the world (and the not-so-great) entirely from the perspective of spies and spying. It'll be like a travel guide for spooks. Since spies have to live in these cities (in addition to working them), we'll approach and appreciate our first ci
S1E5 Singin' In Bahrain
THE BLURB: At first glance Bahrain was a good starting assignment. It was a veritable paradise, a great place to learn without much pressure. The US Navy was based there. And, it was a literal paradise. Working (on the surface) for the State Department, John pissed off Bahrain's Prime Minister while charming its Emir. The days of no pressure ended with a literal bang when terrorists blew up the Kh
S1E4 Good Spies, Bad Endings
THE BLURB: Among the things that make spies tick is fear. Fear of being caught - and then tortured and/or killed. Stories like Beirut Station Chief Bill Buckley's are what keep spies like John Kiriakou up at night. Buckley came to the CIA from the US Army where he was a highly decorated special forces officer. Once recruited by the CIA, Buckley served successfully in places like Cambodia, Egypt an
Mini Episode 2: Pete Seeger, American Hero
THE BLURB: From the time he was 5 or 6 and became aware of him, John always admired and wanted to know folk singer and activist Pete Seeger. In fact, John vowed to become friends with the legend - which, in fact, John did: he and Pete did become friends. How an event that echoed across Pete's life also echoed across John's. SHOW NOTESFor more great podcasts like Dead Drop, please visit https://cos
S1E3 Golden Boy
THE BLURB: Having been recruited into the CIA by legendary CIA officer Jerry Post - and by applying himself completely - John's CIA career took off with a bullet. If ever there was a CIA Golden Boy, John was it. That fact that he came up as a golden boy would prove ironic in the end. In this episode, John goes from briefing the President in the Oval Office to the theatre of war itself: Iraq. It's
Mini Episode 1: Sadam's Shrink
THE BLURB: Talk about getting thrown into the deep end of the pool! When Iraq and Kuwait - John's new "area of expertise" - suddenly go to war (Iraq invaded Kuwait), John unexpectedly finds himself called to the White House - where, as a 25 year old newbie - he's asked to brief President George H W Bush, Vice President Dan Quayle and the the intelligence chiefs on what Saddam will do next. That's
S1E2 The New Recruit
THE BLURB: After a graduate class professor recruits John, he throws himself into a mystifying series of tests all seemingly designed to trip up his desire to become a spy for America. How exactly does an institution like the CIA train people to spy for it? Welcome to your first class! SHOW NOTESFor more great podcasts like Dead Drop, please visit https://costardandtouchstone.com/ Hosted on Acast.
S1E1 What Makes THIS Spy Tick
THE BLURB: John Kiriakou knew when he was 9 years old that he wanted to be a spy. Plenty of people want to be spies but only a few ever actually become spies. In E1, John tells his origin story. Where he and his family came from had a lot to do with his success as an intelligence officer working in dangerous places. From wanting to be James Bond to actually becoming something a lot like Bond. It's
S1E0 Coming Very Soon
THE BLURB: Enjoy this brief preview of "John Kiriakou's Dead Drop: What Makes A Spy Tick" - a brand new podcast that will take you deep inside the mind of one of the best known spies in the whole world: former CIA officer John Kiriakou. You've heard former spies talk about spying, but you've never heard a spy go this deep into a spy's psyche - starting with his own.SHOW NOTESFor more information a
