Secrets of Story Podcast
Matt Bird and James Kennedy host a podcast that explores the craft of storytelling, discussing techniques, examples, and insights from various media to help writers improve their narrative skills.
Episodes
The Final Episode in this Feed: Another preview of "A Good Story Well Told"!
It's another episode of Matt's new podcast, "A Good Story Well Told" with Jonathan Auxier, this time discussing "The Giver", but from now on, to get new content, you'll have to subscribe to the "A Good Story Well Told" feed. Meanwhile, this feed will remain active so you can enjoy the wonderful archives of Matt and James's content.
Introducing a new podcast: A Good Story Well Told with Jonathan Auxier
It's a special preview of the first episode of Matt's new podcast with Jonathan Auxier: A Good Story Well Told. Search for and subscribe to the new podcast to get a second episode now!
Live Show: Capturing the Nature of Children with Betsy Bird
Recorded Live at The Book Stall in Winnetka, IL, hosted by the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators, James and Matt welcome the legendary Betsy Bird to tackle a topic all three know something about: Capturing the Voices of Children in Your Writing. Matt argues that novels that feature truly authentic kids are by definition not children's books, and James and Betsy debate him on tha
Episode 47: The Heroine's Labyrinth with Douglas A. Burton
Matt and James welcome author Douglas A. Burton to discuss his new book The Heroine's Labyrinth! Matt blurbed it and said "The Heroine's Labyrinth is filled with profound and unique observations on the topic of story structure, no matter what the gender of your protagonist. Burton closely analyzes a wide breadth of stories and proves his thesis that Joseph Campbell missed half the story." James
Episode 46: Organizing Chaos with Sophie Beal and Gary Dalkin
Sophie Beal and Gary Dalkin return to discuss novelists' relationship with editors, whether freelance or at a publisher. All four of us have been on one side of that divide or another, and most of us more than one, and we have a grand old time discussing it.
Episode 45: Specific vs. Generic (Or is it Factual vs. Archetypal?)
It's always good to load up your story with specifics, right? Not so fast! James talks about his decision to leave some information out of his new novel Bride of the Tornado, and Matt quibbles.
Episode 44: Putting the Secrets of Story Into Action with Torrey Maldonado
Matt and James welcome acclaimed novelist Torrey Maldonado to talk about how he's put Matt's advice into action for his books for young people (much to James's chagrin)
Episode 43: Writing Every Day with Brock Swinson
Matt and James are joined by author Brock Swinson and discuss his new book of writing advice Ink by the Barrel. All three of us agree that writers must write every day and then sheepishly admit that we don't actually do that. Download Brock's book for free at BrockSwinson.com and check out his podcast Creative Principles!
Episode 42: Mackendrick's Rules, the Epic Conclusion
Alexander Mackendrick summed up the wisdom that film schools (and MFA programs in general) hand down to writers. Is it helpful or poisonous? In this episode, Matt and James finish examining and questioning his 41 rules.
Episode 41: Mackendrick's Rules, Part 2
Matt and James once again use the rules of Alexander Mackendrick as a springboard to talk about what makes for a good story. Bonus: Matt posits his theory of what's in the case in Pulp Fiction and completely convinces James!
Episode 40: Mackendrick's Rules, Part 1
The great filmmaker Alexander Mackendrick famously passed along 41 rules of writing advice and now Matt and James are going to evaluate them all in a three-part epic!
Episode 39: Agents
James and Matt discuss their checkered history of getting agents/managers, failing to hold onto them, and getting new ones, with lots of tips for the unagented! Check out lots of supplemental materials on SecretsOfStory.com.
Episode 38: AI
Can a computer do our jobs? Matt puts it to the test and James scoffs, as is his wont.
Episode 37: Craft in the Real World
The long-awaited return! James and Matt reunite to discuss Matthew Salesses' book Craft in the Real World. Matt is worried about offending anyone and James is less so!
Episode 36: Save the Cat with Sophie Beal and Gary Dalkin
Special guests Sophie Beal and Gary Dalkin join us to debate the merits of the most infamous writing guide of all, Blake Snyder's Save the Cat
Episode 35: Co-Authoring and Transgression with Keir Graff and Linda Joffe Hull
A whopping two guests join us to discuss the feat of co-authoring three thrillers as "Linda Keir", including "The Swing of Things", which leads to a discussion of whether or not transgression need always be punished in American literature.
Episode 34: Building Character Voice
James and Matt discuss Metaphor Families, Default Personality Traits, and Default Argument Tactics. James quotes great wisdom forgetting that he's quoting Matt, and Matt heaps praise on James's new book-- It's a kumbaya love fest!
Episode 33: Niceness, Apologies and PTSD
James checks in on a prediction he made years ago (in Episode 4) that stories would start getting nicer. As it turns out, Ted Lasso proved him right!
Episode 32: Notes
Matt and James have a contentious history of giving (or not giving) feedback to each other, and they reveal some big philosophical differences on the fraught topic of how to give and receive notes.
Episode 31: Irony
Matt and James discuss 14 types of Irony and use Casablanca, Blazing Saddles and Mulan as examples.
Episode 30: Genre, Burgers, and Alien with Jonathan Auxier
Jonathan Auxier returns for a record fifth time to discuss what he originally wanted to discuss last time: Genre, how it is like burgers, and what this all has to do with the movie Alien. James then high-roads us with some classical music cues.
Episode 29: Author Draft, Artifact Draft, Audience Draft with Jonathan Auxier
Jonathan Auxier returns again with his best idea yet: Everything you write should have an Author Draft, an Artifact Draft, and an Audience Draft.
Episode 28: The Order of Odd-Fish
Matt and James examine James's first novel to see if it matches some of the writing rules we've discussed over the years.
Episode 27: Orphan, Wanderer, Warrior, Martyr with Lou Anders
Last episode's guest Lou Anders returns with more storytelling tricks, including a way to break your story into four quarters: Orphan, Wanderer, Warrior, and Martyr.
Episode 26: The Eight Character Wheel with Lou Anders
Matt and James welcome the delightful novelist Lou Anders who expands on Head Heart Gut with a list of eight archetypes hiding in many great stories.
Episode 25: Cult Thinking
James has an elaborate theory about how writing is like cult indoctrination. Matt tries to keep up.
Episode 24: Agency with Parker Peevyhouse
Parker Peevyhouse returns to ask about when a character should break their own rules, which results in discussion of The Mandalorian, Knives Out, and whether superhero movies suck. Check out this blog post we cite a few times: http://www.secretsofstory.com/2018/09/rulebook-casefile-three-rules-vs.html
Episode 23: Head Heart Gut
We’re back! Matt and James have a rousing discussion of Head, Heart and Gut (And Spleen, and Groin, and Spirit, and a zillion other permutations…) Read more about and see neat charts here: http://www.secretsofstory.com/2017/05/head-heart-gut-aka-how-to-create.html
Episode 22: The Holy Moment
James has advice for writing opening scenes and Matt basically agrees with him for once. Plus, James almost gets hit by a meteor and Matt sings the praises of Minneapolis Community and Technical College.
Episode 21: Franchise Finales with Jonathan Auxier
Returning guest Jonathan Auxier stops by to discuss franchise finales, because he's about to write one himself. It's another long one!
Episode 20: The Man Who Won the War
Do writers lose something when they actually learn to write? In this episode, James and Matt look at the script that got Matt signed and consider that question. If you want, you can download the script at SecretsOfStory.com and read along at home!
Episode 19: Alienation and Identification
Matt and James discuss Matt's upcoming book and debate about lots of things. And, inevitably, James tosses off two more 'E's.
Episode 18: Michael Arndt and Insanely Great Endings
James and Matt discuss endings and a video by Michael Arndt (https://vimeo.com/238637906), plus a bonus pun!
Episode 17: Two More Character Tricks
James has two more E's for us, and the long-awaited return of Free Story Ideas ...sort of.
Episode 16: Neat Tricks for Creating Compelling Characters
James still wants to add to Believe Care Invest. He pitches Isolation (appropriately enough) and then five tricks all starting with E. Can he convince Matt?
Episode 15: Should Novelists Follow Screenwriting Advice, featuring Parker Peevyhouse
Acclaimed Novelist Parker Peevyhouse stops by and she's got a question: Should novelists follow screenwriting advice? Much debate is had!
Episode 14: Involuntary Notes
James gives Matt some good advice on a Free Story Idea, so Matt turns it onto a beatsheet and submits it to James' judgment. Lots of Yes-Anding!
Episode 13: The Moment of Grace
James tries to convince Matt that every great ending has a "Moment of Grace" where the hero submits to a higher power. Matt is skeptical.
Episode 12: Hollywoodization
Matt and James discuss the power and peril of Hollywoodizing various examples of sci-fi short fiction. Long but fun!
Episode 11: Heroic Self-Interest with Geoff Betts
Should heroes primarily pursue their own self interest? Matt and James debate the issue with special guest Geoff Betts, and James pitches a deranged update of "Annie"
Episode 10: More Fun with Jonathan Auxier
Special guest Jonathan Auxier returns to the program to give us some pushback on our last three episodes (Listen to those first!) And after you've listened to this, check out this follow-up blog post: http://www.secretsofstory.com/2019/05/new-podcast-more-fun-with-jonathan.html
Episode 9: Positive Passivity
Must all protagonists be active? James says no! ...At least, not at first.
Episode 8: The Jedi in Decline
We discuss the hidden back half of story structure, dealing with Decline and Fall, and James finally gets the Last Jedi discussion he wanted.
Episode 7: Expectations and OODA Loops
Matt Bird, author of "Secrets of Story: Innovative Tips for Perfecting Your Fiction and Captivating Readers", and James Kennedy, author of "The Order of Odd Fish", return for a long-awaited seventh episode, covering audience expectations, shifting tactics, OODA loops, and much more. And James pitches an adaptation of "The Screwtape Letters"!
Episode 6: Raiders of the Story Circle
Matt Bird and James Kennedy discuss story structure and apply Dan Harmon's Story Circle to Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Episode 5: POV with Jonathan Auxier
Acclaimed novelist Jonathan Auxier joins Matt Bird and James Kennedy to talk about POV in prose!
Episode 4: Disputatious Dialogue
Matt Bird and James Kennedy debate the dialogue advice in Matt's book "The Secrets of Story: Innovative Tools for Perfecting Your Fiction and Captivating Readers" In this episode: Should all dialogue be disputatious?
Episode 3: Laika Notes (the super-size episode)
Matt and James look at James's script for Matt's Laika idea. WARNING: This episode is over two hours long!
Episode 2: The Easy Way
Matt Bird (author of "The Secrets of Story: Innovative Tools for Perfecting Your Fiction and Captivating Readers") and James Kennedy (author of "The Order of Odd Fish") debate about the best ways to write. In this episode: Should heroes try the easy way in the second quarter of a story?
Episode 1: Channel Master Thespian
A podcast about story from Matt Bird and James Kennedy
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