Inside The Outer Loop
Inside the Outer Loop is a podcast by Curiosity Software that explores strategies for navigating the outer loop of software delivery, test data management, and software quality. Hosted by the Curiosity Software team, it features conversations with industry leaders and experts. The show aims to transform how listeners think about software delivery, quality, and productivity.
Episodes
Episode 34: A new approach to test data management
Welcome to episode 34 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, the Curiosity team explore a new approach to test data management, one that aligns with the test data needs of large organisations.
The conversation begins with Huw and James discussing the challenges organisations face in test data management as they approach 2025. The introduction of AI is seen as a potential solution, b
Episode 33: Why quality is an end-to-end process with Anand Bagmar
Welcome to episode 33 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Anand Bagmar, a software quality evangelist with 25 years of experience in software testing.
Together, they discuss Anand's journey into the testing field, his philosophy of being a 'quality bartender,' and insights from his recent speaking tour. The conversation del
Episode 32: From manual to automation with Jim Hazen
Welcome to episode 32 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Jim Hazen, seasoned test automation architect and quality consultant.
Together, they discuss the evolution of testing, the challenges faced in the industry, and the importance of education and critical thinking in testing. Jim shares insights on the misconceptions su
Episode 31: Building tools to solve tester's problems with Sanjay Kumar
Welcome to episode 31 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Sanjay Kumar, Founder & Creator of SelectorsHub. Together, they discuss Sanjay's journey in developing tools for the testing community and his mission to solve quality problems.
Sanjay and Rich start the conversation by exploring the challenges in the testing ind
Episode 30: AI's Role in The Future of Software Delivery with Sergio Freire
Welcome to episode 30 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Sergio Freire, Director of Solution Architecture, Test Management at Xray and TestRail. Together, they discuss the future of testing, software delivery and the impact of artificial intelligence.
The conversation delves into Sergio's journey into the testing field, the
Episode 29: The Role of Technology in Banking with Felipe Fabricio
Welcome to episode 29 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and Ben Riley are joined by special guest Felipe Fabricio, Software Engineer & Global Young Leader at Santander. Together, they discuss the challenges of implementing change in large financial service organisations and the need for careful planning and communication.
The episode starts with Felipe sharing hi
Episode 28: Artificial Intelligence & Testing with Daniel Nilsson
Welcome to episode 28 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Daniel Nilsson, Co-Founder & Managing Director of Test Scouts. Together, they discuss AI and testing, focusing on how testers can improve the quality of AI systems and the tools that can enable them to do so.
Rich and Daniel start the conversation by discussing t
Episode 27: The Evolution of Quality Engineering with Phil Royston
Welcome to episode 27 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Phil Royston, CEO & Founder of Tesena. Together, they discuss the evolution of quality engineering as a role and why continuous improvement is essential in the software testing industry.
Phil Royston starts the conversation by sharing his journey into the testing
Episode 26: Addressing Outer Loop Productivity Blockers with Nishil Patel
Welcome to episode 26 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Nishil Patel, CEO & Founder of BetterBugs. Together, they discuss the evolution of quality engineering and the importance of taking a holistic approach to approach outer loop quality.
Nishil Patel starts the conversation by explaining how Betterbug helps improve Q
Episode 25: How to Build a Successful QA Team with Natalie Cole
Welcome to episode 25 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and Ben Riley are joined by special guest Natalie Cole, a QE Team Manager and Quality Advocate. Together, they discuss the people, processes, and technology involved in building a successful QA team!
Natalie Cole, starts the discussion by sharing her experience managing a team of 10 QAs and software engineers. S
Episode 24: How to Manage IT Technical Debt with Marcel Mersie
Welcome to episode 24 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and Huw Price are joined by Marcel Mersie, Technical Lead - Test, and Executive Advisor to the Dutch Tax Administration. Together, they discuss how effective communication and collaboration are crucial for managing knowledge transfer.
Organisations face significant challenges when employees retire, as this often
Episode 23: Risk-Based Quality Engineering & Traceability with Adam Sandman
Welcome to episode 23 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and Huw Price are joined by Adam Sandman, CEO & Founder of Inflectra. Together, they explore the continuous evolution of quality engineering, highlighting critical aspects like traceability, auditability, risk-based testing and regulatory compliance.
The conversation stars with Adam Sandman tracing the evolu
Episode 22: Holistic Approach to Quality
Welcome to episode 22 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, the Curiosity team, Ben Riley, James Walker and Paul Wright, talk about the importance of decoding the software development life cycle and how to foster a holistic approach to quality.
James Walker describes his approach to holistic quality, through the inner and outer loop concept. The inner loop encompasses developer ac
Episode 21: Testing & Community-Driven Quality with Mantas Dvareckas
Welcome to episode 21 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, the Curiosity team, Ben Riley, Rich Jordan, and Mantas Dvareckas, discuss the value of different methods of testing, community-driven quality and continuous learning.
Ben Riley starts the conversation on the “early access” model which many game developers have started to increasingly use, and how it can help improve the qu
Episode 20: Overcoming Test Quality Challenges with Tom Riglar
Welcome to episode 20 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Curiosity Software's Rich Jordan and James Walker, are joined by Tom Riglar, Co-Founder & CEO at Moropo. Together, they discuss the quality, automation and artificial intelligence challenges enterprises are facing, and their potential solutions.
To kick off the conversation, our guest, Tom Riglar, highlights one major p
Episode 19: IT Procurement Challenges Uncovered with John Matthews
Welcome to episode 19 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Curiosity Software's Rich Jordan and Huw Price are joined by John Matthews, a leading purchasing consultant and director at Arish Consulting Together they discuss the impact of quality, speed, and cost in software delivery and the organisational challenges of IT procurement.
John Matthews opens the conversation with a focus
Episode 18: Organizational Challenges in Defining Quality with Chris Harbert
Welcome to episode 18 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Curiosity Software's Rich Jordan and CEO James Walker are joined by Chris Harbert, an industry executive and host of the Developers Who Test but also founder and CEO of Testery. Together they discuss the organizational challenges in defining quality.
So, quality is essential in software delivery. But, who actually owns qual
Episode 17: Making Quality Requirements with Colin Hammond
Welcome to episode 17 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Curiosity Software's Rich Jordan and CEO James Walker are joined by Colin Hammond, CEO of ScopeMaster who discusses the importance of how requirements analysis and sizing lends well to predicting project schedules and assessment of scope in software development.
The neglect of skills and training in requirements elicitation
Episode 16: Tips for public speaking & presenting with Lina Deatherage
Welcome to episode 16 of Inside The Outer Loop! In this episode, the Curiosity team, Rich Jordan, Ben Riley and Lina Deatherage, discuss their latest webinar and share tips for public speaking and preparing for live presentations.
The hosts provide insights, personal experiences, and practical advice, making for an informative and enjoyable listen. In this conversation, the teams get to
Episode 15: The Future of AI Co-Pilots with Mark Winteringham
Welcome to episode 15 of Inside The Outer Loop! In this episode, Curiosity Software's Rich Jordan and James Walker, are joined by Mark Winteringham, author of AI-Assisted Testing. Together they reflect on their experience with AI, the effect it has had on software quality and testing, and the future of AI Co-Pilots.
LLMs, namely ChatGPT, Gemini and Llama are cool, but what do they offer
Episode 14: AI-Powered Testing Practices with Alex Martins
Welcome to episode 14 of Inside The Outer Loop! In this episode, the Curiosity Software team, Rich Jordan and Ben Johnson-Ward, are joined by Alex Martins, VP of Strategy at Katalon, to discuss the implications and challenges of AI-Powered Testing.
This episode goes beyond the hype and marketing euphoria of AI, to weigh up productivity gains coming from GPT-4 and large language models (L
Episode 13: Learning from Software Failures
Welcome to episode 13 of Inside The Outer Loop! In this episode, the from the Curiosity Software team, Ben Riley, Rich Jordan and Paul Wright, discuss their learning, experimentations and experiences with failures.
This episode of Why Didn't You Test That? Emphasises the value of experimentation and learning from failure, and why it's key for organizations trying to foster innovation an
Episode 12: The Legacy System Conundrum with Nalin Parbhu
Welcome to episode 12 of Inside The Outer Loop, hosted by Curiosity Software's Huw Price and Rich Jordan! In this episode, our hosts are joined by Nalin Parbhu, Founder & CEO at Infuse, together they discuss digital transformation challenges for organisations struggling with legacy systems, limited budgets, and a reactive approach to change.
Listen to this episode of the Why Didn't Y
Episode 11: Understanding Value Streams with Chris Dutta
In this episode with Chris Dutta co-founder and head of consulting at Dragonfly whose focus is on quality engineering, Curiosity Software hosts Huw Price and Rich Jordan explore the exponential benefits of implemening value stream management (VSM). Dutta succinctly describes VSM as a set of activities improving the end-to-end flow, quality and the value that IT provides to broader busines
Episode 10: Improving Enterprise Wide Collaboration with Chris Rowett
In this follow up episode with DevOps and Digital Transformation leader Chris Rowett, Curiosity Software hosts Huw Price and Rich Jordan touch on Dora metrics. Used in isolation these benchmarks which include deployment frequency, lead time for change, recovery and change failure, can be seen to measure business performance. Another issue is that the complexity of a system can't be unders
Episode 9: Transforming Large Organisations with Chris Rowett
Welcome to episode 9 of Inside The Outer Loop, hosted by Curiosity Software's Huw Price and Rich Jordan! In this episode, our hosts are joined by Chris Rowett, DevOps & Digital Transformation Leader, together they explore the challenges associated with bringing change to large organisations!
Organisational change is painful and disruptive, it can change roles and cause concern amongs
Episode 8: The Liberated Tester’s Mindset with Gunesh Patil
Welcome to episode 8 of Inside The Outer Loop, hosted by by Curiosity Software's Huw Price and Rich Jordan! In this follow-up episode with Gunesh Patil, The Liberated Tester, Rich and Gunesh share their insights into what it means to be a liberated tester and how they approached the adoption of agile methodologies!
Rich and Gunesh propose the idea of using squads, working to a blank canv
Episode 7: The Model-Based Tester’s Journey with Gunesh Patil
Guest Gunesh Patil shares insights on his journey beyond the misunderstandings and misconceptions in Model-Based Testing alongside Curiosity Software's Rich Jordan! Rich and Gunesh previously worked together on major SI projects managing transformational change of a disparate systems in a medium-sized organisation. They championed this as Data Automation and Virtual Environments - so, DAV
Episode 6: The Impact of Virtualisation in Testing with John Power
Is virtualisation given its rightful place in test design? Deployed in a loosely coupled system, speed and flow increase, whilst reducing technical debt. Team alignment and version handling is improved, setting the terrain for better software delivery. Welcome to this episode of Inside The Outer Loop.
Moving from expertise in original service virtualisation to sandboxing, guest John Power
Episode 5: Critical Thinking in Test Design with Paul Gerrard
In this episode, Paul Gerrard, award-winning software engineering consultant, author and coach, brings his experience to Inside The Outer Loop! Together with Curiosity Software's hosts Huw Price and Rich Jordan, Paul Gerrard discusses the difficulties of organisational hierarchies and how to identify ‘stakeholders’ as your ‘internal testing customers’.
Co-host Rich shares his experience
Episode 4: Aligning Testing to Quality with Marcus Merrell
In this episode, Marcus Merrell, Vice President of Technology at Sauce Labs, bring his experience to Inside The Outer Loop! Together with Curiosity Software's hosts Huw Price and Rich Jordan, Marcus Merrell discusses the lack of innovation in the testing space over the last 20 years, and why testing should be at the centre of quality efforts. Marcus rejects the idea that testing is a jani
Episode 3: Bad Data in Software Delivery!
Bad data but also production data. Curiosity Software's Huw Price and Rich Jordan move the conversation on from GDPR compliance to bad data in software delivery. Together they explore the concept of the data gambler and sceptic, and the tension of using commercially live data in software delivery. Asking, is data more than a side gig for organisations? And ultimately, why it’s all about d
Episode 2: What GDPR Means For Software Delivery
GDPR (general data protection regulation) and what it means for software testing and delivery. Guest Tom Pryce, Communications Manager, Curiosity Software, brings his knowledge to ep2 of Inside The Outer Loop, what GDPR Means For Software Delivery.
We’re exploring plenty of ideas including: was the grace period of 2 years prior to GDPR legislation a call to arms for organisations to shore
Episode 1: Organisational Behavioural Change In Test
Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
