Pen Pals
Join writers and parents Krisserin Canary and Kelton Wright as they navigate the journey of publishing their first novels. From California to Colorado, these friends share their experiences with first drafts, revisions, query letters, and the rollercoaster of rejection. Each episode offers an honest look at balancing creative ambitions with daily life, featuring candid conversations about writing craft, time management, and staying motivated.
Episodes
Babe, I Don’t Know How to Write a Joke: Caitlin Kunkel on Learning to Write Funny
Kelton crossed 78,000 words this week and has officially retired the word-count goal in favor of structural editing, while Krisserin wrapped a craft essay for her IAIA mentor and is bracing for a stack of looming MFA deadlines. Both hosts admit the season is already busy — school fundraiser season, novel revisions, and the general chaos of trying to write while parenting — but they're feeling
Season 3: We're Back, and One of Us Wrote a Book This Summer
Krisserin and Kelton are back for Season 3 and this summer, one of them actually wrote a book. Kelton hit 66,000 words on her rom-com after finally abandoning her identity as a "pantser" and writing from a full outline for the first time. Krisserin did not write a novel. She'll tell you exactly why.Instead, Krisserin spent six of eight summer weeks away from her desk — an MFA reside
Slow Down. Do Less. Let the Creativity Flow | Season 2 Finale
Season two is officially in the books 🎉This week, we’re doing something a little different: opening up the listener survey and sharing what surprised us, what made us laugh, what made us rethink things, and what we’re taking into season three.We get into:The biggest takeaways from your survey responsesWho’s actually listening (writers… and surprisingly, a lot of non-writers)The topics you want mor
The Untold Women Who Shaped the American Outdoors with Heather Hansman
Kelton brings on one of her favorite outdoor writers: Heather Hansman, award-winning journalist, contributing editor at Outside Magazine, and author of Downriver and Powder Days. Heather's newest book, Fierce Country, uncovers the stories of three women — Grand Canyon guide Georgie White, environmental philosopher Dolores LaChapelle, and wilderness guide Anne LaBastille — who shaped how we th
The Case for Abandoning Your Book (For Now)
📋 WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU! Pen Pals has a listener survey and we need your feedback to make the show even better. Fill it out at: https://form.typeform.com/to/kIosWT3L — it takes just a few minutes and means the world to us.In this late-season check-in, Krisserin and Kelton answer a listener letter from Paige, a new mom asking whether to return to her pandemic-era novel or start one of her shiny
What Breathwork Unlocks for Writers with Amanda Fletcher
Krisserin and Kelton are running on fumes — sleep-deprived, burned out, and staring down a summer deadline that feels impossible. Enter Amanda Fletcher: writer, breathwork practitioner, PEN Center USA Emerging Voices fellow, and one of the most magnetic people in the Los Angeles literary community. Amanda shares her winding path from born storyteller to mathlete to kinesiology major, and the losse
ER Visits, Cozy Reads, and the Grace of Not Writing
Krisserin checks in from a Kansas City hotel room fresh off an unexpected ER visit in St. Louis — chest pains, a CT scan, and a lot of unanswered questions — while Kelton battles a household plague of sickness, broken blow-dryers, and postpartum burnout. The two trade brutally honest book reviews: Krisserin DNFs the buzzy bestseller Yesteryear (great concept, rough execution), while Kelton grinds
Alli Hoff Kosik on Writing Christian Influencers with Heart in Too Blessed to Stress
This week on Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton sit down with debut novelist Alli Hoff Kosik to discuss her buzzy new novel, Too Blessed to Stress — a sharp, funny, and unexpectedly tender story about Christian influencers, megachurch culture, and the complicated women behind perfectly curated feeds.Alli shares how a pandemic-era fascination with influencer culture inspired the book, why she wanted to
The Compulsive Liar at Your Desk: A Conversation About AI and Reading
Krisserin and Kelton are running on fumes—and they're honest about it. Both hosts arrive at this week's accountability check-in feeling ragged: Krisserin is limping toward summer with a fried brain and a work trip on the horizon; Kelton is two years postpartum, pausing her newsletter for the month, and trying to remember what living feels like. Their respective goal updates are modest an
Rachael Maddux on Self-Publishing a Book You Can't Let Go
Krisserin and Kelton sit down with writer Rachael Maddux (Life Expectancy: A Memoir, The Void, Third Person) to talk about what happens when a book you’ve spent 14 years writing never sells through traditional channels — and how you decide to make it exist anyway. Rachael walks us through her journey from first draft to cold querying agents to three years on submission to ultimately self-publishin
Who Are We Writing For—And Who Are We Reading?
Krisserin and Kelton barely make it to record — 15 minutes late despite trying to be 30 minutes early — and that kind of week sets the tone. Kelton's survived two weeks of Colorado spring break without daycare, while Krisserin's mom is in town and the two have been watching movies and running around together. A conversation about Hamnet opens up a question that runs through the whole epi
Ramona Ausubel on Getting Unstuck
Kelton is on a record-breaking week — 5,563 words across three chapters — after ditching Scrivener for the freedom of a Google Doc. Krisserin finished two short stories and sent them to beta readers, though she's staying up until 1:30 AM to do it (thanks, Juliet Marillier). Then they're joined by a very special guest: Ramona Ausubel, Krisserin's former PEN Center USA Emerging Voices
Our First-Draft Summer Pact
Spring break writing wins, a faux lip ring verdict, and the announcement of a big summer challenge: both hosts commit to finishing their first drafts by Labor Day. Krisserin wrote three times this week and Kelton locked her gothic novel's timeline and finally wrote the prologue she didn't know she needed. They also get into Kazuo Ishiguro's “Never Let Me Go” (craft: yes, ending: no)
"No Agent Is Better Than a Bad Agent": Lauren Khan on Finding the Right Fit
Krisserin attended Rachel Hochhauser's birthday book signing in Studio City and wrote 3,300 words on her middle grade love story. Kelton got a rejection with feedback from her dream agent — a thoughtful no that somehow made everything clearer, even if the proposal still needs a full rework. Both hosts are sitting with that particular in-between feeling: not stuck exactly, just parked on the s
Art Witch, Money B*tch: Courtney Maum on Writing Across Genres and Getting Paid
Kelton's launching the Rewilding Spring Almanac and kicking off the first night of the murmuration, while Krisserin just landed back from Ohio—sick kid and 90-degree weather whiplash. Both hosts hit the reset button on goals this week: Kelton powered through a low mental health stretch by focusing on necessary work, and Krisserin squeezed in 400 words of writing between travel chaos.This week
Bad News at 5AM, Good News from New Mexico, and the Minimum Viable Writing Week
Krisserin opens with a rollercoaster week: a 5 AM email from her agent pushing book submission to late spring, followed by the joyful news that she's been accepted to IAIA's MFA program in New Mexico. Kelton channeled a burst of creative energy into writing her novel's climax in a single marathon session and is preparing to launch the Spring Almanac of her Rewilding course.The conve
The Co-Host Lore Episode
Krisserin and Kelton finally answer the question listeners keep asking: who ARE these people? This week it's just the two of them — no guest, just origin stories, childhood chaos, and big three energy. From Krisserin's desert horses and Newport Beach culture shock to Kelton's Gettysburg ghost childhood and lunch money con, they dig into how they grew up, how they became writers, and
From Dramatically Quitting Writing to a Major Two-Book Deal: Rachel Hochhauser on Lady Tremaine
Kelton wraps up her Rewilding winter class and launches something new—a free monthly writing practice called the Murmuration—while Krisserin confesses she's started a secret new project (2,400 words and counting, but she's not telling us what it is). Both hosts are taking a beat from their main manuscripts, and this week's interview is the perfect reminder of why stepping away can b
Cait Flanders: From Blog Experiment to Bestseller (and Back Again)
Kelton gets her first agent rejection and refuses to sugarcoat it—while Krisserin shares what she learned about advances, deal structures, and editor wish lists from her meeting with agent Kima Jones. Then bestselling author Cait Flanders joins to tell the unlikely origin story of The Year of Less—how a blogged shopping ban went viral on Forbes, attracted six literary agents, and became a Wall Str
Bonus Episode: Inside the Debut Author Survey with Emily Zipps
We couldn't just talk about Emily Zipps' debut author survey — we had to talk to her. Krisserin and Kelton sit down with Emily herself — author of Alice Rue Evades the Truth and the forthcoming The Two Lives of Amelia Waxler (both from Dial Press) — to dig into what inspired her to survey 60 fellow debut authors, what surprised her in the results, and what she found genuinely hopeful.Fin
What Debut Authors Actually Get Paid (And Why We're Mad About It)
What does a debut author actually get paid? Krisserin and Kelton dig into Emily Zips' survey data and don't love what they find—average two-book deals for $50K, most authors working day jobs, and advances that won't cover daycare. Plus: Kelton's Scrivener file predicted her dream agent, Instagram shadow ban drama, the identity question of "writer vs. mom," and why cha
Mark Sarvas on Writing Novels That Can't Be Ignored
Krisserin panics her way through a grad school application (wrong link, wrong deadline, wrong page numbers), while Kelton enters the querying trenches—19 Google Docs open, three agents contacted, and the immediate certainty that something went wrong. But the real treat this week is their interview with Mark Sarvas, award-winning author of Memento Park and Harry, Revised, Krisserin's longtime
When a Miracle Slides Into Your DMs: On Agents, Advances, and Anxiety
Kelton's inbox delivers a dream: an agent from a respected agency slid into her DMs after discovering her writing on Substack. The excitement is real—but so is the anxiety of navigating what comes next. Do you query other agents simultaneously? How do you know if you vibe? And what does a "good deal" actually mean on Publisher's Marketplace? This week, Kelton and Krisserin brea
Paper Prototypes and Publishing: Vicki Tan's Non-Traditional Book Deal
What happens when a designer walks into a Manhattan publishing office with paper prototypes that look like children's toys? In this episode, Kelton reconnects with Vicki Tan, a former colleague from Headspace turned author, to explore her unconventional path to publishing Ask This Book a Question—an interactive cognitive bias book that defies easy categorization.Vicki shares how a chance conv
"Never Save the World": JT Ellison on 30 Books, Citrine Magic, and Writing Through the Darkness
Krisserin and Kelton kick off 2026 by getting real about the challenge of creating art in turbulent times—from doom-scrolling to feeling like your work is too small for the moment. Then they're joined by New York Times and USA Today bestselling author JT Ellison, who has written more than 30 psychological thrillers and domestic noir novels and co-hosts the Emmy Award-winning "A Word on W
The Capricorn and the Libra: Our Year in Review
In their final episode of 2025, Krisserin and Kelton reflect on a year that transformed them both—32 episodes of accountability, pivot points, and hard-won victories. While Krisserin celebrates landing an agent and finishing her duology, Kelton reveals her elaborate "Year of 40" planning document complete with astrological mapping and a manifestation app.Looking ahead to 2026, Kelton unv
Writing Through December Chaos
In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton confront the reality of December's chaotic energy—where seasonal disruptions, holiday stress, and looming daycare closures threaten to derail their writing routines entirely. While Kelton grapples with her lack of structure (going without coffee until noon, navigating postpartum dairy restrictions, and awaiting news of hand-foot-and-mouth dise
Stop Tap Dancing in Your Query Letter: Ali Gordon's Path to Publication
Krisserin and Kelton sit down with Ali Gordon, author of "We Have Reached the End of Our Show," to discuss her unconventional path to publication without an agent. Ali shares how she wrote her debut novel during the pandemic as a "cozy treehouse" where she could escape—a meditation on grief and the end of the world inspired by her experience losing both parents to cancer within
Long-time Readers and Short-Lived Aunties: A Thanksgiving Gratitude Special
When you're chasing publication dreams and battling rejection, gratitude feels like a luxury. But Krisserin and Kelton argue it's actually a practice—one that keeps you grounded when writing feels impossible. In this candid Thanksgiving conversation, they explore gratitude as a skill you build, not a feeling that arrives. They tackle the envy that lurks behind ambition, answer a listener
Emily Halnon's Couch-to-Marathon for Writers: From Proposal to Bestseller
Krisserin's brain is scrambled from her massive Excel spreadsheet organizing her 24,000 remaining words, while Kelton is juggling unexpected client work that threatens to derail her memoir proposal. But this week they're joined by Emily Halnon, USA Today bestselling author of To the Gorge: Running Grief and Resilience and 460 Miles on the Pacific Crest Trail, a writer, trail runner, and
Writing Through the Doldrums
In this candid episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton get real about the challenging phases every writer faces—the doldrums. Between sleepless toddler nights, demanding day jobs, and the mental exhaustion of parenting, both hosts grapple with keeping their writing momentum alive. Krisserin wrestles with defining the antagonist in her second novel while navigating the broader scale and complexit
Olivia Muenter on Book Deals, Big Five Rejections, and Why Success Doesn't Cure Imposter Syndrome
Krisserin's fighting through the darkness of her 5 AM garage writing sessions while Kelton navigates competing feedback on her memoir proposal. But this week they're joined by their third Season 2 guest: Olivia Muenter, USA Today bestselling author of "Such a Bad Influence," co-host of the Bad On Paper podcast, and Pen Pals superfan. Olivia's here to talk about her wildly
Ghost Stories and Good Luck: Lesley Bannatyne on Contests, Craft, and the Spirit of Halloween
In this episode, Krisserin and Kelton sit down with author and Halloween historian Lesley Bannatyne, whose short story collection Lake Song won the Grace Paley Prize for Short Fiction. Lesley shares her unconventional path to publication—winning major contests without an agent—and the craft lessons she learned along the way. They talk writing community, finding inspiration in spooky places, and wh
Chelsea Hodson on Tumblr Fame, Cold Emails, and Writing at 2:30 AM
Krisserin's broadcasting from Scottsdale, Arizona (after getting two speeding tickets in the same spot) while Kelton's racing to finish her memoir proposal. But the real star of this episode is their first Season 2 guest interview: Chelsea Hodson, author of Tonight I'm Someone Else, founder of Rose Books, creator of the Morning Writing Club, and now a musician releasing her debut si
Keep Fishing: How to Build Confidence as a Writer
Krisserin's fighting off sickness while crushing her revision goals, and Kelton's Rewilding class just sold out. So why do they both feel like frauds? This week, they tackle the tricky bitch that is confidence—how to build it, maintain it, and why it's so much harder for women to claim it publicly.Kelton reflects on a childhood spent being told she couldn't do things (seriously
Finding Your Voice (And Other Terrifying Feedback)
Kelton's exhausted from weeks of sleepless nights with a teething toddler, and Krisserin is deep in revision mode—235 pages edited and counting. But the real topic of this episode is one every writer dreads: major editorial feedback that you don't know how to fix.Krisserin shares her agent's note that her manuscript lacks authorial voice despite having strong character voices and ex
Speaking Success Into Existence (Plus Actual Magic)
Big news drops in this episode: Krisserin has an agent! After manuscript consultations with longtime friend Kima Jones from Triangle House Literary, what started as friendly feedback sessions turned into official representation. Krisserin shares the whirlwind week from reading her book aloud to receiving editorial notes and submission timelines—all organized with Virgo precision.But this episode i
Back to Work: The Autumn Novel Theory (And Other Excuses)
Krisserin and Kelton are back for Season 2! They dive into their summer writing goals with the brutal honesty that only true accountability partners can provide. Kelton reveals why she convinced her therapist that her novel is "seasonally inappropriate" for summer writing, pivoting instead to a memoir proposal that practically wrote itself in three days. Meanwhile, Krisserin confesses to
The Final Chapter: Season One Finale
It’s the season one finale! We’re talking endings—what makes them work, what makes them fail, and how we’re both rethinking the ends of our own books. Krisserin gets real about the feedback that’s forcing her to rewrite, and Kelton opens up about moral ambiguity, memoir structure, and what she’ll be working on over the summer. Plus: North & South yearning, Romantasy fatigue, and the rise of th
How to Get a Literary Agent (Kind Of, Maybe)
Krisserin and Kelton dive into the often soul-crushing world of querying literary agents, where finding representation feels like a high-stakes marriage proposal to strangers who might never write back. While Krisserin reflects on her 70-query journey that yielded more silence than success, Kelton discovers that her friend's surprise pitch to an agent might offer a shortcut she's not sur
The Fool, the Villain, and the Wedgie: A Guide to Better Characters
Krisserin and Kelton dive deep into the art of character creation, exploring what makes fictional people compelling, memorable, and real. From their shared love of Murder Bot's sarcastic inner monologue to their hatred of clumsy coffee-spilling protagonists, they dissect the elements that make characters stick with readers long after the last page. The duo discusses developing well-rounded vi
AI Is the Devil (And Other Light Topics)
Kelton and Krisserin dive into their complicated relationship with artificial intelligence—which they lovingly refer to as "the devil." They share personal stories about how AI has affected their writing careers, including a heartbreaking moment when Krisserin discovered one of her alpha readers had unwittingly fed her novel manuscript to an AI tool. The hosts explore ethical boundaries,
Books That Raised Us (And Broke Us)
Remember that one book that made you cry in public? Or the series that basically raised you? In this episode, Kelton and Krisserin crack open their bookish brains and spill on the stories that stuck. From Kelton's pirate adventures to Krisserin's Victorian classics, they dive into their most formative reads and discuss how they schedule reading time between parenting and work. They share
Embracing your weird & finding your readers
Kelton shares the tough news of losing a client to AI, leading to a powerful discussion about finding and embracing your unique voice as a writer. The hosts explore writing about personal obsessions - from desert landscapes to intrusive thoughts - and how 'writing your weird' attracts the right readers. Krisserin finds her first alpha readers (including her mom!), they analyze Miranda Ju
Book Battles: Genres, Trends, and IP Theft
Krisserin celebrates completing her manuscript while Kelton makes significant progress on her novel. They tackle the challenging questions of where your book belongs in the literary marketplace, whether to read in your genre while writing, and how to position your work among similar titles. The hosts dive into Lynne Freeman's IP theft lawsuit against bestselling author Tracey Wolff and Wolff&
Smash or Pass: Literary Edition
In this episode, Krisserin and Kelton catch up on their writing progress before diving into a spirited round of "Smash or Pass" with a literary twist. They debate everything from writing in book margins and killing off main characters to dream sequences and unreliable narrators. The conversation shifts to rapid-fire opinions on popular authors like Andy Weir, Sarah J. Maas, Emily Henry,
The Outliner vs. The Pantser
In this episode, Kelton and Krisserin flip the script on their expected writing styles, revealing that organized Krisserin is actually a passionate pantser while project-manager Kelton has embraced the power of outlining. They candidly dissect how these approaches shape their creative processes—from Krisserin feeling her way through first drafts to Kelton's revelation that structure finally h
Literary Pathways: AWP Bonus Episode
In this special bonus episode, Krisserin takes you on a journey through the 2025 AWP Conference in Los Angeles, where she sought out the voices on the edges of the literary world rather than the mainstream publishing houses. From self-published epic fantasy writer Omari Richards to the undergraduate editors of Rock and Sling, from Chelsea Hodson's innovative Rose Books to Chiwan Choi's b
Slump City: Population You (And Every Other Writer)
In this candid conversation, Kelton and Krisserin explore the inevitable writing slumps that all creators face. They share their personal experiences with creative blocks—from Kelton's newsletter struggles to Krisserin's post-querying paralysis—and offer practical strategies for pushing through. The hosts discuss how deadlines, accountability partners, and reconnecting with what you love
The Imposter's Guide to Writing Anyway
In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton confront the demons of self-doubt that haunt their writing lives. Between morning pages and late-night edits, they unpack their deepest insecurities: Krisserin fears her technically-sound writing lacks soul, while Kelton wonders if she knows how to craft a novel at all. They swap strategies for silencing the critics – both external and internal – f
The Financial Reality of Writing Dreams
In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton strip away the taboo of talking money in the literary world, tallying up the true cost of chasing publishing dreams. While Krisserin calculates the sobering $25,000 she's invested over thirteen years of classes, workshops, and editing services, Kelton weighs whether to accept a lucrative two-month project that would fatten her bank account but
The Frodo Principle: Why No Writer Makes the Journey Alone
In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton tackle the sometimes awkward, often necessary world of building community and platform as writers. From Kelton's viral dog video that landed her in 'algorithm jail' to Krisserin's anxiety about attending the AWP, they explore the reality behind the numbers game of social media followings and the genuine connections that truly ma
Literary Side Quests: When Distractions Derail Your Writing
In this episode of Pen Pals, Kelton and Krisserin confront their greatest writing nemesis: distraction. While Kelton battles the twin challenges of a baby learning to poop and the allure of raccoon videos on her explore page, Krisserin struggles with 5 AM wake-up calls sabotaged by six-year-olds and structural uncertainties that leave her cursor blinking like a silent judge. The friends trade conf
The Assassin at the Dinner Table
What happens when writers turn their pen toward family and friends? Kelton and Krisserin dive deep into the ethics and artistry of writing about real people - from Kelton's dating blog adventures to Krisserin's fictionalized family histories. They explore the delicate balance between honesty and respect, discuss generational trauma in storytelling, and debate when to ask permission versu
The Art of Taking a Punch
In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton navigate the treacherous waters of writing workshops and editing, trading war stories about feedback that made them stronger (or at least made them cry in their cars). While Krisserin advocates for the safety of structured workshops and multiple drafts, Kelton embraces the wild west of publishing personal essays straight into the void - death threa
Good Enough to Get Ghosted For a Year
In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton unpack what it really means to "be published," trading stories from their own winding paths through the writing world. While Kelton reflects on her journey from anonymous Tumblr confessions to bylines in The Guardian, Krisserin shares a fresh rejection letter from her year-long query journey and contemplates the various doors (and price t
Be My Disappointed Dad
In this debut episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton launch their shared mission to support each other through the journey of publishing their first novels. While Kelton tracks her progress through word counts and steals writing moments between baby naps, Krisserin creates elaborate rituals with perfectly curated playlists and emotional support beverages to get into her creative zone.The friend
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