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Haystacks & Hell

Christianity Religion & Spirituality Religion

Haystacks & Hell 41 episodes Apr 26, 2025

Haystacks & Hell is a personal storytelling podcast about growing up inside the Seventh-day Adventist church. Hosts share firsthand accounts of Adventist childhoods, church culture, and the rules and expectations that shaped them. The show follows what happens when people step away from the faith and rebuild their lives outside it. Episodes mix humor, grief, and reflection with practical talk about finding new community and purpose.

Episodes

S3:E3 - More Adventist Music Drama Apr 26, 2025 59:30 Support the Show • This re-upload of Abby and Ami's original show SDAP dives into the complex and often contradictory relationship between music and the Seventh-day Adventist faith. Abby, Ami, Alex, and friends talk about their experiences with church music, worldly music, hypocrisy, destroying CDs, and just plain weirdness.00:00 Story Previews 00:27 Haystacks and Hell Intro 00:44 Episode Intro 01

S3:E2 - The Devil's Tunes: SDA Views on Music Mar 31, 2025 36:39 Support the Show • Did you ever get scolded for the music you played in church? We're diving into traditional Seventh-day Adventist attitudes toward music and talking about my own personal experience with music while growing up in the church. We'll also cover historical Protestant views on organs, early Adventist resistance to musical instruments, and the silly debate around Christian Contemporary

S3:E1 - The Next Four Years Feb 22, 2025 31:40 Support the Show • Santiago discusses the current political climate, especially the continued rise of Christian Nationalism in the United States, while reflecting on his personal journey from right-wing authoritarian beliefs to greater empathy and understanding. Listeners are encouraged to stay informed, participate in local elections, maintain hope for justice and positive change. Resources / Top

S2:E15 - From Faith & Fear to Freedom: Dee - Pt. 2 Sep 28, 2024 01:11:24 Support the Show • Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Dee. We discussed his questioning of Adventism and Christianity in general, Satanic Panic, his evolving perspectives on religion, and having empathy for believers. We also talked about Dee's move to Sweden, his childhood connection to Dr. Ben Carson, and how the Ben Carson on TV is not the same man Dee once knew.Resources / Topics Mentioned: S

S2:E14 - From Faith & Fear to Freedom: Dee - Pt. 1 Jul 13, 2024 01:12:06 Support the Show • Part 1 of Santiago's interview with Dee, a fourth-generation Seventh-day Adventist, about his SDA background, early baptism, education, and what led him out of the church. In our wide-ranging conversation, we discussed racial issues in Adventist schools, the Civil Rights Movement, and more.Resources / Topics Mentioned: Video - We Are the World Topic - Public Enemy Film - Malcolm

S2:E13 - Rosei Quartz: Pastor's Kid turned Content Creator - Pt. 2 Jun 15, 2024 58:01 Support the Show • Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Rosei Quartz, a former Seventh-day Adventist pastor's kid, content creator, and Twitch streamer. In this episode, we cover more of Rosei's deconstruction, finding contentment and a new outlook on life, complementarianism, consent, mental health, becoming a content creator, and more.Resources / Topics Mentioned: Links - Rosei Quartz's Links Pod

S2:E12 - Rosei Quartz: Pastor's Kid turned Content Creator - Pt. 1 Jun 8, 2024 01:14:53 Support the Show • Santiago interviews Rosei Quartz, a former Seventh-day Adventist pastor's kid, content creator, and Twitch streamer. Rosei shares her Adventist upbringing, the pressures of parasocial relationships, and the high expectations placed upon her as a pastor’s kid. We cover her journey out of Adventism and how studying psychology played a big role.Resources / Topics Mentioned: Links -

S2:E11 - Future of the Show + Listener Stories Apr 20, 2024 45:24 Support the Show • Santiago shares some personal news, updates on the future of the show, and listener stories.Resources / Topics Mentioned:Slate: Why Do We Give Our Pets Death With Dignity but Not Ourselves? S1:E2 - Do You Believe in an Afterlife?More Listener Stories Podcast Resources Book ResourcesFull Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes — Have a story to share? Write to us, send a

S2:E10 - From Youth Rusher to Ex-Adventist - Pt. 2 Mar 31, 2024 48:52 Support the Show • Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Andres Pichinte (They/Them), a Gen Z ex-Adventist who went from fundamentalist Adventism and going door to door for two summers with Youth Rush, to exploring esotericism and now Orthodox Christianity. We discussed the sales tactics used by Youth Rush, the books they sold and beliefs they encountered, misadventures in door-to-door evangelism, a

S2:E9 - From Youth Rusher to Ex-Adventist - Pt. 1 Dec 9, 2023 01:04:03 Support the Dunk Family • Support the Show — Santiago interviews Andres Pichinte (They/Them), a Gen Z ex-Adventist who went from fundamentalist Adventism and going door to door for Youth Rush (for two summers), to exploring esotericism and now Orthodox Christianity. We talk about growing up Adventist, being surrounded by conspiracy theories, and moments that made them question their Adventist fait

S2:E8 - Charli: Escaping her Adoptive SDA Parents - Pt. 3 Nov 18, 2023 50:15 Support the Dunk Family • Support the Show — 3rd and final part of Santiago's interview with Charlotte Hayes (Charli), a Gen-Z ex-Adventist. After escaping her abusive home, Charli discovered she didn't have proof of her U.S. citizenship, so she had to get a green card and worried about possibly being deported. We also discussed her journey of healing and leaving the faith she grew up in.Charli's

S2:E7 - Charli: Escaping her Adoptive SDA Parents - Pt. 2 Nov 12, 2023 01:03:44 Support the Dunk Family • Support the Show— Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Charlotte Hayes (Charli), a Gen-Z ex-Adventist. She was adopted from Russia and brought to the U.S. as a baby by an Adventist couple. Growing up, Charli experienced horrific things at home. The police and Child Protective Services investigated, but nothing happened, so she ran away from home at 18. She now has over 500

S2:E6 - Charli: Escaping her Adoptive SDA Parents - Pt. 1 Nov 4, 2023 01:50:38 Support the Dunk Family • Support the Show — Santiago interviews Charlotte Hayes (Charli), a Gen-Z ex-Adventist. She was adopted from Russia and brought to the U.S. as a baby by an Adventist couple. Growing up, Charli experienced emotional, physical, and sexual abuse at home. The police and Child Protective Services investigated, but nothing happened, so she ran away from home at 18. She now has o

S2:E5 - Adventist "Halloween" or Nah? Oct 28, 2023 01:06:52 Support the Dunk Family • Support the Show — Santiago and Saoirse discuss their very different childhood experiences with Halloween and read some stories from the ex-Adventist subreddit. Abby, Ami, and friends talk around a bonfire (bone fire?) about their experiences with Halloween. That last part of the episode is a little loud, but there's some fun stuff if you're patient.Topics Mentioned: Scar

S2:E4 - Meet Will: ex-SDA Husband, Dad, Lawyer - Pt. 2 Oct 21, 2023 01:40:01 Support the Dunk Family • Support the Show — Part 2 of 2: Santiago interviews Will James, an ex-Adventist husband, dad, lawyer, and TikToker based in the U.S. state of Oklahoma. We discuss writing wills for SDA church members, Will's deconstruction from Adventism, telling his parents, and navigating his own parental responsibilities after deconstructing at just the right moment.Topics Mentioned: W

S2:E3 - Meet Will: ex-SDA Husband, Dad, Lawyer - Pt. 1 Oct 14, 2023 57:46 Support the Dunk Family • Support the Show — Part 1 of 2: Santiago interviews Will James, an ex-Adventist husband, dad, lawyer, and TikToker based in the U.S. state of Oklahoma. We discuss his parents' conversion to Adventism (along with 30 of their friends?!) when he was two years old. Will grew up with a very literal interpretation of the Bible and Ellen White's writings, and eventually deconstr

S2:E2 - From SDA Student Missionary to Agnostic: Morgan Clae Oct 7, 2023 02:06:03 Support the Show • Support on Patreon — Santiago interviews Morgan Clae, an ex-Adventist director, producer, and singer-songwriter based in Los Angeles. We discuss purity culture, her time at Walla Walla University, being a student missionary, deconstruction, and becoming agnostic. We also explore the meaning behind the lyrics of Wilder Things, Morgan's song on deconstruction and coming out.Morgan

S2:E1 - Meet Erika: ex-SDA Teacher, Mom, Survivor of Abuse Sep 30, 2023 01:36:23 Support the Show • Support on Patreon — Santiago interviews Erika Miller, an ex-SDA teacher, mom, and survivor of abuse. As a young child, Erika was abused by a deacon's son at her home church. She shares her amazing story of resilience, attending Newbold College in the UK, and eventually leaving the Adventist church.Resources Mentioned: Erika's email: swimlass [at] gmail.com Therapists and Mental

S1:E20 - The Amalgamation of Man and Beast!? Season 1 Finale Jun 3, 2023 01:14:31 Support the Show • Support on Patreon —For the final episode of Season 1, Santiago does a deep dive on the "amalgamation" quotes. Abby and Ami talk about bigotry in the Seventh-Day Adventist church and particularly in the southern United States culture of the church. The conversation covers racism, homophobia, dating, trans issues, segregated conferences, and "the amalgamation of man and beast."F

S1:E19 - Race, Slavery, and Racism in Christianity and Adventism May 28, 2023 01:01:44 Support the Show • Support on Patreon —Santiago covers a brief history of race, slavery, and racism in the context of Christianity and Adventism. We look at the Bible, Ellen White's writings, and the history of how the Adventist church created a segregated conference system in the United States. Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notesRace, Pseudoscience, and ScienceAdam Hochman - Is ‘

S1:E18 - Cherie: ex-SDA Body Image Coach on Purity Culture, Food, & More May 20, 2023 01:41:40 Support the Show • Support on Patreon —Santiago interviews Cherie Marie, a body image coach, BodyBarre instructor, and former 4th generation Adventist who grew up in California, Ohio, and Berrien Springs, Michigan. We discuss food, purity culture, and much more including overcoming challenges with food and body image. Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes Cherie's Info:To claim a 90

S1:E17 - Matthew Vollmer: Writer, Professor, & Ted Wilson's Nephew - Pt. 2 May 14, 2023 01:27:32 Support the Show • Support on Patreon—Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Matthew Vollmer, an ex-Adventist writer and English professor at Virginia Tech who just so happens to be the nephew of Ted Wilson, the current President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notesMatthew's Links:Book - All of Us Together in the EndEssay - This I Be

S1:E16 - Matthew Vollmer: Writer, Professor, & Ted Wilson's Nephew - Pt. 1 May 6, 2023 01:33:03 Support the Show • Support on Patreon —Santiago interviews Matthew Vollmer, an ex-Adventist writer and English professor at Virginia Tech who just so happens to be the nephew of Ted Wilson, the current President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notesMatthew's Links:Book - All of Us Together in the EndEssay - This I BelievedWebsite /

S1:E15 - Haystacks & Hope: Mutual Aid and Other Announcements Apr 29, 2023 21:30 Support the Dunk Family: hell.bio/dunkfamilyCheck out the new Resources Page—Santiago announces updates to the resources linked on the Haystacks & Hell website, a new mutual aid project, and a call-to-action to help fellow listeners of the podcast.Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes —Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail

S1:E14 - Meet Kyle: Future Pastor turned Agnostic Atheist Apr 22, 2023 02:08:05 Support the Show • Support on PatreonSantiago interviews Adam Kyle Jones, an ex-Adventist who studied to become a Seventh-day Adventist pastor at the SDA school Oakwood University. Kyle went from being a lifelong fundamentalist, conservative Adventist to an agnostic atheist. We cover his upbringing, deconversion, depression, and how he came out stronger on the other side.Full Transcripts, resource

"Human Sexuality Task Force" S1 Bonus 2 Apr 14, 2023 18:19 Bonus episode discussing an upcoming "Human Sexuality Taskforce" announced by Ted Wilson, President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. Why talk about this? Because I care about the current and former Adventists who will be affected by this. Apparently the GC's homophobia is not clear enough, so they will be producing media to double down on this.Related Social Posts (please share

S1:E13 - Meet Jeff, Humanitarian ex-Adventist Apr 8, 2023 02:09:25 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes —Santiago interviews Jeff, an ex-Adventist who used to work for ADRA and still does humanitarian work today. They discuss a bit of everything about growing up Adventist, including Jeff's experiences at an SDA boarding school and what it's been like to leave Adventism over the last 20 years.Buy Santiago a coffee • Support on Patreon Links to topi

S1:E12 - Did You Read Forbidden Books? Apr 1, 2023 53:58 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes —Ami, Abby, and Misty talk about worldly literature, fiction, and the church. They discuss their experiences with forbidden books and the Adventist attitude towards fiction in general, and ask their friends if they read any forbidden books.Buy Santiago a coffee • Support on Patreon —Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message

S1:E11 - Meet ex-SDA Writer Melissa Duge Spiers - Pt. 2 Mar 25, 2023 59:36 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes —Part 2 of Santiago's conversation with Melissa Duge Spiers, an award-winning memoirist, screenwriter, and essayist based in Silicon Valley, California. They cover Melissa's journey with therapy after leaving the church, her current projects, and more.Buy Santiago a coffee • Support on PatreonMelissa's Links:Official WebsiteTikTok @theglorywhole

S1:E10 - Meet ex-SDA Writer Melissa Duge Spiers - Pt. 1 Mar 18, 2023 01:01:06 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes —Santiago interviews Melissa Duge Spiers, AKA Deconstruction Auntie. Melissa is an award-winning memoirist, screenwriter, and essayist based in Silicon Valley, California. She grew up as a 4th generation Adventist, got baptized at 12, and left the church after high school. This is Part 1 of a 2 part conversation.Buy Santiago a coffee • Support o

S1:E9 - Interview: Meet the ex-SDA Survey Team (Eighth-day Freedom) Mar 11, 2023 01:33:06 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes—Santiago interviews the research team behind the ex-Adventist survey and research project called Eighth-day Freedom: Dr. Tom Arcaro, Dr. Duane McClearn, and Jeff, an ex-Adventist originally from Michigan.Buy Santiago a coffee • Support on PatreonEx-Adventist Survey Links:Take the surveyEighth-day Freedom BlogOne Size Does Not Fit All (Blog addre

S1:E8 - Dealing with our SDA Families - Pt. 2 Mar 4, 2023 32:50 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes—Santiago shares a bit more about his experiences after leaving the church and shares a template of the letter he wrote to his parents. Abby, Ami, and Alex talk more about issues with raising your own children when your family wants to proselytize them. They talk about issues with aging parents, and whether people are happier with or without reli

S1:E7 - Dealing with our SDA Families - Pt. 1 Feb 25, 2023 01:03:23 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes—Santiago reads the letter he wrote to his parents about leaving the church and faith behind. Ami, Abby, and Alex talk about dealing with family who are still in the church. They talk about issues with the previous generation, as well as issues with raising kids and the next generation.Resources mentioned in this episode:Coming Out Atheist: How t

S1:E6 - Growing up Gen Z and Adventist: Interview with Miguel Feb 11, 2023 01:39:09 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes—Santiago interviews his Gen Z brother Miguel about growing up Gen Z and Seventh-day Adventist. We laugh about sex ed, bananas, and fleeing their home in the middle of the night.Links mentioned in this episode:Ray Comfort on the banana—Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8

S1:E5 - Did You Ever Get “The Talk?” Feb 5, 2023 01:19:52 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes—Oh look, another sex episode! Santiago shares his experiences and some resources. Ami, Abby, and Alex discuss sex ed in the Adventist church and touch on dorm life, contraceptives, and the experience of growing up during the AIDS crisis. They ask their friends: What, if any, sex ed did you receive?Links mentioned in this episode:Film: Yes, God,

S1:E4 - When Did You Learn About Sex? Jan 29, 2023 01:08:47 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes—We discuss John Harvey Kellogg, early Seventh-day Adventist attitudes towards sex, more modern attitudes, and our own experiences with sex education growing up in the church. Ami asks her friends: When did you learn what sex was?Links mentioned in this episode:Inclusive sex education resourcesErica Smith, M.Ed. - Sex EducatorThe Dark History of

Stories From Listeners Like You - S1 Bonus 1 Jan 26, 2023 15:36 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes—Santiago reads stories shared by listeners of the podcast: A woman who left the conservative fringes of Adventism, a trans woman from Puerto Rico, and someone who was raised in the SDA Reform Church.You can read these stories and more at hell.bio/stories.—Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voi

S1:E3 - Do You Have a Favorite Veggie Meat? Jan 21, 2023 49:40 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes—We discuss Adventist culture, diet, and the Sabbath, looking at the good and bad aspects of these things. Abby and Ami are joined by Alex, and they ask their friends "What's your favorite veggie meat?"—Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriou

S1:E2 - Do You Believe in an Afterlife? Jan 14, 2023 01:11:07 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes—Santiago, Ami, and Abby talk about death, heaven, hell, and Adventist eschatology. Abby and Ami ask their friends the vital question: Were you taught that animals go to heaven?Links mentioned in this episode:The Greek myth of SisyphusBig Gods Hypothesis Article, PaperThe Good PlaceDeath with DignityThe evolution of moral empathic evaluationHave

S1:E1 - Do You Believe in God? Jan 7, 2023 01:20:14 Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes—Santiago introduces himself and the podcast. Abby and Ami discuss their plans for the podcast, their backgrounds, why they left the church, and ask their friends the question: When did you know that god wasn't real?Links & stats mentioned in this episode:What are haystacks?What is the National Sunday Law?Christian poll results re: War and Tortur

Podcast Trailer Jan 4, 2023 01:43 Were you ever part of the Seventh-day Adventist Church or exposed to fundamentalist Christianity in general? If so, have we got a show for you (queue the Veggie Tales theme song)!Haystacks & Hell is an ex-Adventist podcast where we tell stories about growing up Seventh-day Adventist, leaving faith behind, and building new, fulfilling lives.We'll also unpack topics like:The end of the worldSex, dat

Haystacks & Hell

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