
GolfWell Podcast
Most golfers stay stuck doing the same things. We’re here to change that. Cordie Walker talks with the best coaches, players, and researchers in the game to figure out what actually helps you improve. Then we break it down into simple, practical ideas you can use right away. No jargon. No fluff. Just real conversations, smarter strategies, and tools that move your game forward. If you love the process of getting better and want to train with purpose, this show is for you.
Episodes
Is Zero Path Actually Bad? Two Coaches Disagree
Is a zero club path actually bad? Justin Kraft and Dr Luke Benoit join the GolfWell podcast to debate club path, face angle, and the flyer lie myth most golfers get wrong.We get into why your 9-iron flies farther than your wedge on a flyer lie, what good ball striking actually means, on-course practice that works, and why so many tour pros draw the driver.Justin Kraft - https://www.instagram.com/k
Emergency Call With My Coach After a TERRIBLE Tournament
You ever practice for months and then completely fall apart in your first real round? Yeah. Me too.I called Coach Will Robbins right after to break down what actually happens to your body and your brain under tournament pressure — and what to do about it.🏌️ Work with Will → bit.ly/scoringmethod-golfwell (code GOLFWELL)📘 Get The Scoring Edge → https://www.amazon.com/Scoring-Edge-Coaches-Golfwell-Gu
I'm Training for the US Speed Golf Open (I Don't Run)
Can a scratch golfer who doesn't run compete in the US Speed Golf Open? 80 days to find out.The Garmin watches are awesome for fitness AND golf - https://creatorlink.shop/4mW5uedThis is Episode 1 of Chasing Opens. Scott Dawley held the speed golf world record (65 in 42 minutes) and runs Speedgolf USA. He's coaching me through what might be the dumbest thing I've ever signed up for.🏃 Speedgolf USA:
The Fitness Shift Every Golfer Needs To Make (with Dr. Joe Lacaze)
We got the chance to sit down with Dr. Joe Lacaze (inventor of Rotex) to talk about why it is so effective in activating the golf swing so quickly and efficiently. Use code GOLFWELL10 for a discount when picking up the ROTEXMotionCombo Bundle https://bit.ly/rotexgolf
Fast Eddie Fernandes: Training, Speed & Performance Secrets
Fast Eddie Fernandes joins the podcast to break down how he started and maintains his training for an elite swing speed, what it takes to become a long drive golfer, and how he structures his workouts and recovery to stay at the top of his game.We dive into how Eddie approaches strength, mobility, and durability in the gym in his 50's and what his recovery looks like as well. Whether you'r
Scott Fawcett responds to comments about DECADE Golf!
Scott Fawcett answers your comments from our two-video series at Old Memorial - course management, aiming off middle of the green, lag putting drills, wind math, and why "just hit it at the middle" isn't good enough.👉 Get DECADE: https://decade.golf — use code CORDIE for a discount
Honest Takes on the Best PGA Show 2026 Equipment
I talked with Jake from Fully Equipped Golf at Golf.com and we went over all things PGA Show 2026. We talk through everything we liked and would potentially use in our own golf game and training.
Justin Kraft Responds To Critics and Comments About the Modern Golf Swing
Watch the video that started the conversation → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkl5agGLkck@kraftygolf_ broke down the modern pattern he teaches: shallow arm mechanics + steep body mechanics. Controlling the clubface, shallowing the club in transition, and staying in posture while you rotate through the ball. This sparked a lot of discussion around these mechanics and who can use them in their o
Bettinardi Reveals the Real Story Behind ARMLOCK PUTTING
If you’ve ever wondered why armlock putting didn’t completely take over the game, this is the conversation you’ve been waiting for. I sat down with Sam Bettinardi to unpack the real story behind the first mass-market armlock putter, how Matt Kuchar helped shape its design, and what Bettinardi learned after more than a decade of building these putters.We dig into the prototypes, the early challenge
Broomstick vs. Armlock: David Orr’s No-BS Guide to Smarter Putting
Have you ever wondered if a broomstick or armlock putter could actually make putting easier? 🤔 In this episode, putting coach David Orr of Flatstick Academy breaks down the science, biomechanics, and psychology behind alternative putting styles — from the claw to lead-arm lock to broomstick.🎙️ This is part of our Alternative Putting Series on the GolfWell Podcast— where we talk with the best minds
The Truth About the Long Putter (ft. Lucas Glover)
The long putter is back... and Lucas Glover is a big reason why. After years of battling the yips, Glover found a new weapon that completely transformed his game.We break down the rise of the long putter, how it helped Glover win back-to-back tournaments, and what makes this putting style so effective. If you’ve ever wondered why more pros are switching to broomsticks, this is the story behind the
Why Pros Are Switching to Sweepers: LAB CEO Sam Hahn Explains
Is the future of putting already here?LAB Golf CEO Sam Hahn joins us to break down the rise of broomstick and sweeper putters — from Adam Scott’s early switch to Lucas Glover’s breakout wins. We dive into the tech behind LAB’s designs, why graphite shafts changed everything, and Sam’s controversial take on armlock putting. If you’ve ever wondered why more pros (and amateurs) are going long, this e
Should You Switch to Armlock Putting? (Ping Expert Explains)
Thinking about switching to an armlock putter? In this episode, we dive deep into all things armlock putting with Marty Jertson, VP of Fitting & Performance at Ping. We cover everything you need to know:-Why armlock works and who it helps most-The big drawback that golfers overlook-Best specs (length, loft, head weight) for armlock putters-How it stacks up against broomstick/long putters-Train
Coach Will Answers Critics: Does the Scoring Method Really Work?
Want to lower your golf scores without rebuilding your swing? Coach Will explains the Scoring Method-how smarter decisions, better course management, and simple drills can help golfers of all levels break 80, avoid big numbers, and finally play consistent golf.From breaking 80 without obsessing over swing changes to avoiding costly triple bogeys with smarter course management, this episode dives i
Are You Gripping Your Golf Club Wrong?
How tight should you hold the golf club? Is it really a “3 out of 10” like you’ve always heard… or is there more to the story?In this episode, we break down brand-new research on grip pressure with insights from Liam Mucklow, who has studied golfers of every skill level using pressure-sensor grips. From Tour pros to slicers and high-handicappers, we’ll show you what really happens with the hands a
How to Practice So Your Range Swing Survives Tournament PRESSURE
Ever wonder why your perfect range swing falls apart the second you tee off in a tournament? 🏌️♂️ This video reveals the real reason - and how to fix it starting today. I sit down with performance coach Dr. Luke Benoit @rypgolf to uncover exactly why your golf swing changes under pressure - and how to finally take your practice swing to the course.Learn more about Ryp and the Ryp Ignite program
What Pros Do (and You Shouldn’t) Before a Golf Trip
It’s Open Championship week — and we’re talking all things prep, practice, and the gear moves players make when it matters most.Nico Darras is back for a wide-ranging conversation on how pros get ready for majors, the difference between sticking with your stock shot or adapting to links golf, why some players tinker with gear (and why most of us shouldn’t), and the weird things wind does to your s
I Asked a Golf Scientist How to Get Faster… Here’s What He Said
We’re diving deep into golf speed training with Dr. Alex Ehlert, a sports scientist who works with players of all levels at PGA Frisco. In this episode, we break down the mechanics of speed, how to structure a smart training session, and the real-world journey of adding 10+ mph to your swing. Whether you're trying to break through a plateau or just figuring out how to swing faster without losi
How Tour Pros Really Practice Wedge Play (And Why You Should Rethink Yours)
Ever wondered why tour pros rarely hit 60-yard wedge shots? Or why amateurs obsess over yardages that the best in the world actively avoid? In this episode of the Golf Well Podcast, host Cordie Walker sits down with Dr. Nico Darras of Golf Blueprint to unpack the real data, strategies, and myths behind distance wedge play. From launch angles and spin control to wind math and why setup is everythin
Two Drivers in the Bag?! Here’s Why It’s Actually Genius
What if the 3-wood is the most overrated club in your bag?In this episode of the Golf Well podcast, I sit down with Marty Jertson, VP of Fitting & Performance at Ping, to talk about the rise of the Thriver—a shorter, higher-lofted second driver that's replacing fairway woods for tour players like Neil Shipley and Preston Summerhays.We break down:– Why the 3-wood is becoming obsolete for high-s
Decoding Shot Shaping & Iron Size: Dr Sasho MacKenzie breaks down new research
Get ready for a deep dive into the science of golf with Dr. Sasho MacKenzie. In this episode, we cover it all, from the surprising impact of iron size on shot shaping to advanced concepts in swing mechanics. Here’s what you’ll learn as we recap the World Scientific Congress of Golf:
- Why smaller irons might not always be better for shaping shots
- The surprising truths about club kinetics and ho
3 Unique Insights from the 2024 World Scientific Congress of Golf w/ Dr Paul Wood
In this episode, Dr. Paul Wood, Vice President of Engineering at Ping and President of the Golf Science Organization, discuss insights from the recent World Scientific Congress of Golf.
They delve into various research topics, including the physics of putting on sloping surfaces, technological advancements in measuring putting dynamics and the latest buzz in the research community.
Smylie Kaufman shares the success in keeping it simple
After Tony Ruggiero and Smylie Kaufman reflect on their years working together – Smylie was one of the best students Tony ever had. Smylie shares the secret to his success it was his understanding of his swing and keeping his focus simple, by having three to four things he’d monitor. They dive into specific techniques and approaches, as well as the best advice he’s ever received, what the best pla
Ralph Bauer: What you need to know about putting
Ralph Bauer and Tony talk all things putting. He explains where he starts when work with tour players, it’s changing their perspective to understanding how they missed is due to misreading instead of pushing or pulling. He talks about his new app, and how it solves the missing part to putting better is reading the greens better. The technology accelerates what would take years into weeks. They als
Akshay Bhatia: The Journey to Playing Pro at 17
Tony has Tour Player, Akshay Bhatia, on the show this week. Tony shares what really stood out to him about Akshay. They talk about his journey and choices with turning Pro at 17 years old. The uncharted challenges he struggled with and how he’s worked through them the past two years. He talks about the amazing coaches that have helped on the journey, and what he’s learned from playing with some of
Science Behind the Swing w/ Michael Jacobs
Michael Jacobs - 50 Best Teacher in America by Golf Digest, and top 100 Teacher in America by Golf Magazine; shares his journey, with Tony Ruggiero to creating his own research software and what the Jacobs 3D team is working on now. Teaching for 22 years, Michael explains how his focus changed and the 2 steps to becoming a great coach if you’re just starting out. Tony and Michael also discuss the
Integrating Athletics into Golf Training w/ Shaun Webb
This week’s guest is Shaun Webb - he’s a top 100 teacher, been coaching for 20 years and has achieved great success with his business Athletic Motion Golf.
Athletic Motion Golf integrates other sports' exercises and drills to golf instruction. He also studies the commonalities of great players to incorporate and improve the uniqueness of each student. Tony and Shaun share four different similarit
Attention of Focus - External vs. Internal Cues
We sit down with Luke Benoit, a renowned instructor and Founder of Ryp Golf, the inventor of Rypstick, a speed training tool. He's done interesting work in the fields of attention of focus and learning. There's tons of GREAT info to help you train and play better.
Improve Your Ball Striking (Week 3)
This week we have the pleasure of sitting down with Trillium Rose. She shares her perspective on the foundations of great ball striking, helping her players understand their unique tendencies, the value of saving the data, making the most of feedback and having a go-to shot.
Trillium is the Director of Instruction at Woodmont Country Club in Rockville, Maryland and she’s been recognized by Golf
Using Stress for Better Practice
Brady Riggs joins Tony Ruggiero from our partner podcast, The Tour Coach. Brady has been recognized as a Top 100 Teacher for the past 13 years, and was inducted into the Southern California PGA Teaching Hall of Fame, in 2017. Alongside of coaching Tour Players, he's added Director of Instruction at Hualalai Golf Hale. Tony and Brady talk in depth about his practice strategies - 'Combine-arama', an
What is collaborative coaching and is it effective?
Drew Steckel sits down with our partner, Tour Coach with Tony Ruggiero. Drew has been recognized as one of the Best Young Coaches by Golf Digest - he shares his journey to coaching Tour Players and his keys to being a great coach. Tony and Drew talk in depth about being on tour, what are the most effective ways of coaching.
Improve Your Ball Striking [Week 2]
This week we talked to Mike Malaska about what is good Ball Striking. He shares three super specific ways that you can improve your ball striking in practice. This discussion has tons of insight, great stories, helpful tools for you to check out.
Use our discount code GSL for $75 off links.rapsodo.com/gsl-website-mlm-75off
3 Ways to Improve Your Ball Striking
We are kicking off a new series today; it's all about ball striking. How can we do that more effectively? We have tons of accessibility to feedback with golf technology, but how do we use it to improve our ball striking. To kick off this series, we have Tony Ruggiero sharing what he is paying attention to when it comes to his Tour Pros and their ball striking - full of great info.
Use our discoun
RESEARCH: Insights into Virtual Reality and Golf Practice
We talk with Dr. David Harris who works at the University of Exeter in the UK, he’s a researcher in psychology and specifically interested in skill acquisition. He's done a lot of research in the world of VR, and has some conducted studies on quiet eye with VR equipment, and experimented with using VR as a way to practice. He offers insightful and relevant conclusions in terms of technology and sp
Chris Como talks Coaching Tour Players with Tony Ruggiero
Our Partner, Tour Coach with Tony Ruggiero had the chance to sit down with Chris Como. Como shares what he's learned from his coaching career, why Bryson and him work well together, his favorite players to watch, and what he does first when working with a new tour player.
Masters Week with Chris O'Connell, Jamie Mulligan and Jeff Smith
Masters Roundtable with three amazing coaches: Jeff Smith, he works with Viktor Hovland, Chris O'Connell, who works with Matt Kuchar and Jamie Mulligan who works with Patrick Cantlay.
They each have a ton of insights into how they're preparing for the masters - what they're doing beforehand, what they're doing there while on-site and some insights in strategy, jam packed with insights.
RESEARCH: Quiet Eye's Direct Correlation to Better Putting
This installment is part two of our conversation with Gal Ziv. If you didn’t catch the first part, make sure you go back and give it a listen – there’s some really interesting stuff we talk about that’s sure to pique your curiosity.
Today, we’re going to talk about gaze behavior and the quiet eye.
The quiet eye as described by Gal, is “the final fixation on a specific area in your visual field
RESEARCH: Do your expectations ACTUALLY impact your results?
In this installment of the GSL podcast, we’re going to take a deep dive into research as it pertains to golf and human behavior. As you know, we’re firm believers in data, backed by science. Our goal is to deliver it to you in a way that helps you better understand the game of golf and play your best.
We’re privileged to be joined by Gal Ziv who has done a lot of work on “gaze behavior and enh
Sean Foley: Most Candid Coaching Conversation You'll Hear
We're sharing an episode from Tour Coach. Tonny Ruggiero and Sean Foley discuss candidly about how quickly coaching and pro golf is changing.
ACCURACY... How do you find it?
Adam Young, Jon Sherman, and Cordie Walker have a practical conversation about gaining accuracy in your golf game and what it actually means.
Viktor Hovland: How to Prepare for a Major
We sit down with Viktor Hovland to talk about how he's getting ready for the US Open at Winged Foot. We talk about what he's working on in his golf swing and the strategy he takes toward choosing targets and right clubs around a US Open venue.
How a Tour Pro makes a Swing Change w/ Mark Blackburn (revisited)
Two questions we need to talk about when we look at the golf swing. #1 - When do you make a swing change and #2 - How do we do it. PGA tour coach Mark Blackburn talks about his process and how it played out while working with Kevin Chappell.
Distance Hacks w/ Clay Ballard (revisited)
Today we’re talking through some unique concepts to explore if you want to increase distance and gain club head speed.
Should You Chase MORE Distance? Adam Young + Jon Sherman of Practical Golf
We look at 3 steps to gaining more distance and how to do it. Adam Young and Jon Sherman (Practical Golf).
Block or Random Practice? Adam Young + Jon Sherman of Practical Golf
Casual conversation about block and random practice with Adam Young and Jon Sherman (Practical Golf).
Swing your own swing?!? Adam Young + Jon Sherman of Practical Golf
Adam Young (author of Practice Manual) and Jon Sherman of Practical Golf join host Cordie Walker for a Q&A session around "swing your own swing".
Eric Cogorno: Golf Instruction Around the Country
This conversation was recorded at Open Forum in January, at the PGA showtime frame. At that time, Eric was traveling around full-time on the road. We talk a little bit about his experiences; they're really unique. I enjoy hearing the different people he's spending time with, what he's learning, all that good stuff. We also talk about some of his teaching and what he’s learned from all his students
Interesting viewpoint on LEARNING w/ Michael Hebron
Michael Hebron has helped push golf instruction to pay more attention to the brain, how we learn, and improving the practice of golfers all around the world. To back it all up he's been a PGA NATIONAL TEACHER OF THE YEAR and TOP 50 INSTRUCTOR GOLF DIGEST AND GOLF MAGAZINE.
Bill Harmon: Crazy stories and realizations from a lifetime in golf
The legendary, Bill Harmon shares with us amazing stories from the Masters and so many years of coaching the best players in the world. He has been a top instructor for years and also a caddie for Jay Haas for 7+ years.
Mike Adams: Why guess when you can measure?
The legendary Mike Adams joins us to help understand different swing types by walking us through some screens to better understand your golf swing.
Dealing with Pressure of Competitive Golf w/ Matt Parziale / Day 3
While competing at golf at any level you deal with stress and pressure. In todays podcast we talk with 2017 US Mid Am winner, Matt Parziale about his experiences and Dr Greg Cartin about how to thrive when the pressure is on.
Practical Golf Mental Game Guide / Day 2
Dr Greg Cartin is on the podcast answering your questions about the mental game in golf.
We answer some questions from all of you like:
How do I stop myself getting tense on tight driving holes ! Usually followed by hitting it way into the cabbage
When I play my best, I always feel as if I'm "not thinking" I'm simply just swinging. How do I keep or maintain this?
After playing 12 holes, get
Practical Golf Mental Game Guide / Day 1
This week we're tackling the most common mental questions with performance consultant Dr Greg Cartin.
Here are some of the questions we tackle this week:
“Everyone says ‘trust your swing’. What if it can’t be trusted?“
“How do I block out the negative thoughts once my swing starts to struggle in the middle of my rounds which always seems to happen? Thanks.“
“I’ve always played with one mechan
Eye opening putting info and stories about tour pros w/ David Orr and Tim Briand
We hear about how top players like Justin Rose and Suzanne Pettersen approach putting and putter fitting with legendary instructor, David Orr and fitting expert Tim Briand.
What Tour PROS are doing during COVID-19 shutdown
We talk with Tony Ruggiero, Dr Greg Cartin, and Kolby Tullier about what the tour players they work with are doing during the COVID-19 shut down.
6 Things Any Golfer can Learn from the LARGEST Study of the Golf Swing in Golf
Today we sit down with Nick Clearwater, the VP of Golf Instruction for Golftec to talk about the biggest data study in the history of golf. Essentially, Golftec has collected data from all 205 of their Golftec’s locations to figure out how golfers move throughout their swings, and what movements the best players possess.
Golf Data Chat: COVID-19, the distance debate, and more
We chat with Arccos Golf CEO and Co-Founder, Sal Syed about what he's seeing from the 200million+ shots they have collected data on.
John Tillery: How to Approach Swing Changes
Learn from top instructor, John Tillery as we talk about his work with players on the PGA tour like Kevin Kisner, Scott Brown, and others. He shares how he approaches swing changes and what we all can add into our practice to help them stick.
Tour Agent Shares KEY STRATEGIES from Most Successful Players w/ Mac Barnhardt
Learn from longtime agent and performance coach, Mac Barnhardt as we talk about his experiences working with the best tour players in the world like Davis Love III, Harris English, Brian Harmon, and more.
How to get your PGA Tour card BACK [TOUR COACH]
Join host, Cordie Walker as he sits down with Tony Ruggiero, Tom Lovelady, and Jackson Koert after a day of work at Frederica Golf Club talking about the realities of playing golf for a living and what makes it so difficult.
[UNEDITED] Lanto Griffin: From Losing his PGA Tour card to winning the Houston Open
Listen into the full conversation with PGA Tour winner, Lanto Griffin.
Lanto Griffin: From Losing his PGA Tour card to winning the Houston Open
He's played on almost every tour and lost his PGA tour card in 2018. For Lanto to win his first PGA tour event in 2019 and be on the path to playing his best golf ever is an amazing story.
How to Pick Better Targets and the Right Clubs w/ Scott Fawcett
If you can start choosing smarter targets and clubs in your course management you're going to shoot lower scores. In this podcast with DECADE founder, Scott Fawcett we talk through some practical ideas for your golf game.
Watch the video https://youtu.be/jF9ZlUMO0Qw
GEAR INSIDER: Surprising impact of blade length and accuracy w/ Dr Paul Wood
While fitting someone for a driver has become fairly streamlined, fitting good players for irons and wedges is different process. It’s not all about watching them hit stock shots on the range and analyzing Track Man data. Today we're talking with PING's VP of Engineering, Dr Paul Wood to share what they're doing to help players make smarter decisions about irons and wedges.
https://youtu.be/DOD
Chuck Cook: Secrets to Payne Stewart's '99 US Open Win
How do you discover what you should ACTUALLY work on in your golf game? Legendary instructor Chuck Cook talks about his work with players like Payne Stewart, Luke Donald, Keegan Bradley and more in this podcast.
What do Tour Players do During the Off-Season?
We sit down with Tour Coach podcast host Tony Ruggiero and talk about the past season and what he's working on with tour players like Lucas Glover, Robby Shelton, Zack Sucher, Sepp Straka and more...
Inside Look at Elite Long Drive Training Team (behind the scenes tactics and training)
Get a look into the unique mindsets and tactics used by some of the best long drive competitors out there. We talk about everything from optimal equipment, technique, and training methods with Bobby Petterson and Ryan Reisbeck.
Biggest "Practice Secret" holding you back from drastically lower scores [part 3 of 3]
Want learn more about? Click this link and check out our new Practice Secrets Training Program https://get.golfsciencelab.com/practice-secrets
How take your game from the range to the course [part 2 of 3]
After hours of practice and years of work why hasn't your handicap dropped to the level you really want it to? You know you have the ability to pull off the shot but when it matters the most you can't seem to access that skill you have worked so hard to create.
Why Your Golf Swing Technique Change Doesn't Stick! [part 1 of 3]
You work on your swing for hours on the range. Hitting ball after ball and finally it feels like you have it. You head to the course a couple days later and that awesome swing change disappears... Why? That's what we tackle in today's episode with Iain Highfield.
[UNEDITED] Derek Ingram: Why Canada has more players than ever on the PGA Tour
[UNEDITED] Derek Ingram: Why Canada has more players than ever on the PGA Tour by Cordie Walker
Derek Ingram: Why Canada has more players than ever on the PGA Tour
We sit down with Derek Ingram, the head coach of the national amateur and Young Pro Teams for Golf Canada. We talk about the keys to developing elite level players from practice plans, key stats, and swing technique training.
GEAR INSIDER: Square Putter Grip?!
We talk with the founder of Sense Golf Grips, Andrew Chung and discuss the square and rectangle putter grip.
Why WHOOP fitness tracker is being used on tour (and how it can help you)
WHOOP has made a strong appearance on tour with Scott Stallings, Justin Thomas, and Rory Mcilroy all wearing it throughout the year. We learn from founder, Will Ahmed exactly what it does and why.
Bernie Najar: How Kyle Berkshire developed 150+ mph of clubhead speed
We talk with 2019 World Long Drive Champion Kyle Berkshire's longtime golf instructor (for 10+ years) Bernie Najar. In his interview we learn how he got started as a long drive competitor and some of the secrets to his rapid speed gains.
[UNEDITED] Tom Lovelady: 2 Keys for Growth Every Golfer Needs to Know
Check out the unedited version as we sit down to hear the keys to Tom's growth and success along his journey. From junior golfer, playing at Alabama, and onto the PGA Tour we dissect the key factors that have helped him continually level up his play and skill.
Tom Lovelady: 2 Keys for Growth Every Golfer Needs to Know
We sit down to hear the keys to Tom's growth and success along his journey. From junior golfer, playing at Alabama, and onto the PGA Tour we dissect the key factors that have helped him continually level up his play and skill.
[UNEDITED] Scott Stallings: Interesting thoughts on practice and training for golfers
Listen into our full unedited interview with Scott Stallings from the 3m Open.
Scott Stallings: Interesting thoughts on practice and training for golfers
3 time PGA Tour Winner, Scott Stallings shares his story from junior golf to the PGA Tour as well as his thoughts on practice and more effective training.
Exactly how Golf Australia develops elite level junior golfers
We talk with two coaches involved in the Golf Australia high performance program and learn how they're developing some of the best golfers in the world like Cameron Smith and Minjee Lee. Listen into this conversation with Nick Randall and Richard Woodhouse.
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