Liberating Motherhood
Mothers are tired of anti-mother misogyny, household labor inequality, and a culture that expects mothers to bear the burdens of its many shortcomings--all without complaint. Mothers are vital to feminism, and have been neglected in feminist discourse for far too long. Mothers are constantly told that political problems are personal--that if we communicate better, mother better, behave better, things will improve. The only path to change is through widespread political change. That's what this podcast is about. Maternal feminism is an important prong of social justice work, and all people interested in a just world should care about what happens to mothers, families, and children.
Episodes
S4 Ep6: Lessons From the Witch Trials: Claire Mitchell and Zoe Venditozzi
The witch trials did not target women—at least not explicitly. Yet somehow it was almost all women being executed and abused. This includes little girls. The witch trials are a case study in how the law can be gender-neutral, while still being highly gendered. In this podcast episode, I speak with Zoe Venditozzi and Claire Mitchell, creators of the Witches of Scotland podcast, about their new boo
S4 Ep5: Ushma Upadhyay: What Abortion Research Teaches Us
Right wing opponents of women’s rights and bodily autonomy cannot win on the facts, so they’ve decided to create a fact-free world. And sadly, they’re winning the battle. Even media coverage of abortion often contains errors, and many of us have mistaken beliefs and ideas about pregnancy termination, even if we identify as pro-choice. Ushma Upadhyay, an abortion researcher, joined the podcast to
S4 Ep4: Anna Louie Sussman: The Impossibility of Family in an Age of Uncertainty
Why is having a child so increasingly out of reach, economically, socially, and emotionally? And for those who choose to have children, why does the burden feel so massive? Political realities influence our most intimate of choices, whether we want them to or not. Journalist Anna Louie Sussman is interested in how, when, and why people become parents, and in the political decisions that affect ou
S4 Ep3: Wylin Wilson: Womanist Bioethics
For centuries, our ethics—and especially our bioethics—have left out the most marginalized, treating white men and other powerful groups as the default and the norm. Wylin Wilson, a chaplain, former death doula, and ethics professor at Duke, seeks to change this. She writes about how we must center the powerless in our bioethics, and what we must do to ensure that systems of care serve them. Beca
S4 Ep2: Jess Calarco: How Women Became the Social Safety net
When women are overloaded with the endless burdens of household labor, we tell them to go on strike or lower their expectations. But this advice pretends that women are arbitrarily creating work for ourselves, and that if we just hung fewer wreaths or stopped making cookie dough from scratch, everything would be better. This trivializes women’s labor, and ignores the reality: Women have become th
S4 Ep1: Gemma Hartley: No One Loves an Angry Woman
Welcome to season four of the Liberating Motherhood podcast! You can expect to see an episode every Wednesday, except for periodic days off. This first episode is with one of my favorite writers and thinkers, Gemma Hartley, who came on last year to discuss emotional labor and household inequity. Whether or not you are Christian, or were raised in an evangelical Christian family, right-wing evange
S3 Ep21: Angela Saini: Who Benefits From Convincing Us Oppression is Natural?
Supremacy culture wants to convince us all that it is inevitable. If oppression is natural, it’s hardly worth fighting, after all. Racism, sexism, and other systems of oppression have always weaponized science—and too many scientists have allowed themselves to be mouthpieces for oppressive ideologies. Angela Saini has written about the use and abuse of science to uphold oppression for years. Her
S3 Ep20: Angela Jones: Sex as a Political Act
No matter how much we try to relegate sexuality to the most private corner of our lives, it inevitably escapes. Sex is not really a private act. It’s a political one, which both influences and is influenced by our culture, politics, history, and more. Angela Jones’s new book, Sex in Public, names sex as a public act, and talks about what it means for our sexuality to be politically and socially c
S3 Ep19: The myth of misandry--and why hating men is not morally equivalent to hating women
Rather than taking the summer entirely off, I’m reducing my podcasting frequency to every other week, and posting reruns of some of my favorite episodes during the off weeks. I’ll be back to full-time in the fall. Do I hate men? Should you? Yes. No. Maybe. Misogynist men love to weaponize false claims of misandry against women. In fact, one of the clearest signs that a man is a misogynist is that
S3 Ep18: Valena Beety: The Criminalization of Mothers and Motherhood
Two weeks ago, I interviewed Justine van der Leun about criminalized survival, and why women so often end up in prison for “crimes” of self-defense. The truth is that women often end up in prison for behaviors that aren’t criminal at all—not just for self-defense or for killing. Today we are talking about the widespread victimization of women at the hands of the legal system. Patriarchy specifica
S3 Ep17: Justine van der Leun: Criminalized Survival
In patriarchy, there is no sure escape from violent relationships. The courts and police may not help. Friends and family may turn their backs. And even when a woman’s life is in danger, she does not have the same right to self-defense as a man. Journalist Justine van der Leun began researching this phenomenon when she learned about Nikki Addimando, a woman who killed her abusive partner in self-
S3 Ep16: (Rerun) Loretta Ross: Calling In, Building Sustainable Activism, and Changing Minds
Rather than taking the summer entirely off, I’m reducing my podcasting frequency to every other week, and posting reruns of some of my favorite episodes during the off weeks. I’ll be back to full-time in the fall. In the meantime, I’ve made no secret that this one of my all-time favorite episodes, and that interviewing Loretta Ross is one of the most enjoyable things I’ve ever done. I hope you lo
S3 Ep15: Dr. Elizabeth Dalgarno: Surviving Family Court and the Normalization of Abuse
“There is always a reason for people to hate on women.” — Elizabeth DalgarnoWhy is it so hard for victims of coercive control, domestic violence, and other forms of abuse to be believed? This is the subject Elizabeth Dalgarno has devoted much of her work to. A leading researcher on coercive control, Dr. Dalgarno has written extensively on abusive relationships, including on how they affect childr
S3 Ep14: Rerun: Kate Manne: Understanding the Logic of Misogyny
Exciting news: I’m writing a book. Less exciting news: This means I have a little less time right now. It’s also summer break, which means things are in a chronic state of chaos.Lots of podcasts take breaks over the summer, but I didn’t want to do that, especially since I have SO MANY amazing guests lined up for the summer. So instead, I’ll be mixing in some rerun podcasts this summer, to give my
S3 Ep13: Inimai Chettiar: Fighting for Women's Legal Rights
I’ve often said that there’s a concerted effort to get people to hate lawyers, and it’s because when people hate lawyers, they won’t assert or even learn about their own rights. Lawyers have helped lead every movement for social justice, and in the United States, are behind every imaginable civil rights gain. Inimai Chettiar, an American attorney and President of A Better Balance, has used the le
S3 Ep12: Stefanie O'Connell: The Ambition Penalty
Mainstream career advice for women loves to pretend we can’t possibly know even the most basic facts about having a career. We tell women to ask for a raise, as if they don’t know they work for money. We tell them to “lean in,” as if the problem is just that no one ever bothered telling them to try. We tell them to communicate better at work, as if women have never learned to talk, and as if men
S3 Ep11: Cordelia Fine: Debunking Sex Difference Myths
You’re being lied to about gender difference science. Researchers are inflating, overstating, and falsifying their data, or building biases into the research that render it unreliable. Stories about research inflate the limited differences these flawed studies find, and parenting advice suggests that we should treat girls and boys as radically different types of humans. So we do exactly that, and
S3 Ep10: TJ Raphael: Coercive Adoption, Liberty Lost, and Who Gets to Be a Mother
“The adoption industry needs vulnerable pregnant women.” — TJ RaphaelWho gets to be a mother? And who gets to decide? This is the question at the heart of TJ Raphael’s incredible podcast series, Liberty Lost. Much of the adoption industry treats women as vessels for someone else’s child. Their trauma, their desires, their beliefs do not matter. Nowhere is this more apparent than in the right-wing
S3 Ep9: Jennie Young: Dating More Safely in a Patriarchy
Patriarchy destroys relationships, and it has turned dating into a nightmare. Jennie Young is fighting back with her Burned Haystack method, and now the method is a book. Through her work, Jennie endeavors to teach women to detect red flags before they become obvious, and to thwart abuse before it happens. Dating is the most dangerous thing most of us do, and I have no doubt that Jennie is saving
S3 Ep8: Soraya Chemaly: Male Supremacy
Why is misogyny so widespread, even when men claim to love and care about women, even among those who believe they are feminists? Male supremacy helps explain this phenomenon. The Institute for Research on Male Supremacism defines male supremacy as follows: [A] cultural, political, economic, and social system, in which cisgender men disproportionately control status, power, and resources, and wom
S3 Ep7: Sarah Ruden: A Short History of Bad Ideas About Women
I wrote recently about how men are using AI to prop up their belief in their own superiority. This propaganda is nothing new. Men have, for thousands of years, used every tool at their disposal to spread false ideas about women’s inferiority and demonic nature. Sarah Ruden is a translator, a classicist, and the author of Reproductive Wrongs: A Short History of Bad Ideas About Women. She came on t
S3 Ep6: Emma Katz: Why Abusive Men Are Not Good Parents (re-release)
I’m on vacation this month, so am re-releasing this excellent episode with Dr. Emma Katz. Content warning: This podcast extensively discusses all forms of intimate partner violence, some child abuse, and briefly discusses the death of a child, but not in graphic detail. Intimate partner violence is much more than physical violence. Every physically violent perpetrator was, for a time, not physica
S3 Ep5: Loretta Ross: Calling In, Building Sustainable Activism, and Changing Minds
Today we are going to be learning from the legendary reproductive justice activist Loretta Ross. Loretta is my feminist hero and role model, and I feel so lucky that she was willing to share some time with me. How is it that a human rights movement rooted in the shared value and worth of every human being so often devolves into a toxic stew of abuse and hurt feelings? Anyone who participates in l
S3 Ep4: Things Change Because We Change Them: A Zawn-Only Podcast Episode
This is the first podcast episode I’ve done by myself, because I wanted to speak directly to all of you. If you like it, I may do more. On a recent AMA, someone asked me how I sustain hope when I’m surrounded by horror and despair. Here’s what I told her: I know that the only thing that makes things actually hopeless is giving up hope. If my foremothers could fight through coverture, through lega
S3 Ep3: Kiki Bryant/The Uppity Negress: Labor Diggers
“Black men have been held accountable for things they didn’t do for so long, that we have forgotten how to hold them accountable for the things they do.” — Kiki BryantMen are stealing women’s lives by stealing their time. So why is it that we have widespread notions of women as spoiled, entitled gold diggers? The words we use matter. They focus our attention and make it easier (or harder) to spea
S3 Ep2: Abigail Leonard: Four Mothers, and How Cultural Norms Influence Experiences of Motherhood
If you like this episode or this podcast, please consider heart-reacting, sharing, commenting, or leaving a positive online review. It helps the podcast continue to attract great guests!Motherhood is a cultural, political experience. But in many places, especially the United States, we pretend culture doesn’t exist, and that everything about motherhood is both inevitable and an individual problem
S3 Ep1: Sabia Wade: Birthing Liberation
“Everyone is impacted by racism.” — Sabia Wade We’re back! It’s now Season 3 of the Liberating Motherhood podcast. As promised, this season you’ll be getting an episode every single week. Please consider helping this podcast continue to grow by: heart-reacting on Substack, liking on your favorite platform, leaving a comment on social media, leaving a positive review on your favorite podcast platf
S2 Ep23: Jane Ward: The Tragedy of Heterosexuality and Toward a Liberatory Model of Parenting
I am so excited about this episode! Jane Ward is a brilliant queer feminist scholar who has written extensively about the harmful dynamics heterosexual relationships normalize. Her book, The Tragedy of Heterosexuality, has heavily influenced my own work, and I am so grateful to her. She’s working on a new book about parenting that we hit on a bit, but we mostly talk about what is going on in heter
S2 Ep22: Desiree Stephens: Radicalizing White Women, and How We Bring More White Women to Anti-Racism Work
“White feminism is often about becoming equal to men, which makes you the leading oppressor across the globe. It leaves everyone else behind.”—Desiree Stephens I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how we bring more women—especially white women—into the feminist fold. And then, once they’re there, how do we get them to embrace an intersectional approach that acknowledges and tackles the entirety
S2 Ep21: Cristen Pascucci: Fighting Back Against an Oppressive Birth System
Childbirth is an incredibly powerful rite of passage. The literal creation of life could be a source of empowerment, no matter how any individual person chooses to do it. Instead, patriarchy weaponizes birth as a tool of trauma and oppression that steadily normalizes the dehumanization of motherhood. My transition to motherhood included a massive fight against the hospital where I intended to give
S2 Ep20: LC DeShay: The Male Loneliness Epidemic
LC DeShay is a reproductive justice sociologist, as well as a doula and lactation consultant who has worked on the front lines of women and children’s health. I brought them on as a witness, as someone who has seen what we do to women at their most vulnerable moments. I wanted to talk specifically about the male loneliness epidemic, and how it is weaponized to extract even more labor from women at
S2 Ep19: Devon Kuntzman: Parenting for an Emotionally Healthy Future
Violence and abuse are normalized in every aspect of our culture, and particularly in parenting. No wonder so many women tell me they didn’t recognize abuse until it was too late. Authoritarian parents set their children up for abusive relationships, and they damage their kids’ self-esteem and emotional intelligence in the process. Whether you call it authoritative parenting, gentle parenting, com
S2 Ep17: Alex Bollen: Good Mother Myths and Scientific Sexism
This month, I’ve been inundated with messages from folks who love the new pace of podcasts—weekly instead of every other week. I love making the podcast and love giving you what you want, but the podcast is a ton of work, and it underperforms in the algorithm. My data show that people listen to the podcast, but they don’t otherwise engage after or before listening, which pushes it down in the all
S2 Ep18: Kate Manne: The Silencing of Women Who Speak Publicly About Anything
I’ve been thinking a lot lately about what it means to be a public intellectual who also happens to be a woman. The constant criticism feels like a crushing weight that no amount of therapy, resilience, or blocking can render manageable. Philosopher Kate Manne has long argued that the abuse patriarchy hurls at women is a policing mechanism designed to punish women who step out of line. It seems cl
S2 Ep16: Virginia Sole-Smith: Anti-Fatness as a Tool of Oppression
The devaluation of fatness in patriarchy is no accident—and it’s not about health. Patriarchy convinces every woman she’s fat, or at risk of becoming fat, and forces us to spend our lives thinking about our bodies instead of the things that truly matter most to us. As we’ve seen over and over again, a woman who hates herself is more vulnerable to abuse and less likely to abandon shame, band togeth
S2 Ep15: Marlene Gerber Fried: Abortion rights and reproductive justice
“Hope is a muscle.” — Marlene Gerber Fried Marlene Gerber Fried has been a leading reproductive justice and choice activist for decades. She’s seen and survived times of both hopelessness and triumph. She partners often with women of color, especially Loretta Ross, and her expansive vision of what a better world might look like feels like exactly what we need right now. It was such a gift to talk
S2 Ep14: Soraya Chemaly: Resilience, Women’s Anger, and Dismantling Male Supremacy for Good
Discovering Soraya Chemaly’s work on women’s anger was a revelation for me. I was finally able to claim my own anger, rather than dismiss it as juvenile and embarrassing. We must be able to claim our anger, because we have plenty to be angry about. I was so thrilled to get to interview Soraya, and I think you will love her if you’re not already familiar with her rich body of work. Some of the many
S2 Ep13: The Law as a Tool for Feminist Change, with Fatima Goss Graves
Lawyers have always been on the frontlines of the fight for social justice. Nearly every enshrined right women have is thanks to a lawsuit. Fatima Goss Graves is an attorney and expert in using the law for good. I’ve followed her work since the days of Time’s Up, and literally squealed when her team reached out to me about appearing on the podcast. Her wisdom is rich and deep, and I hope she’ll in
S2 Ep12: Does Zawn Hate Men? The Myth of Misandry
Do I have men? Should you? Yes. No. Maybe. Misogynist men love to weaponize false claims of misandry against women. In fact, one of the clearest signs that a man is a misogynist is that he thinks misandry is real, common, and a threat. Jeff and I have wanted to talk about bogus claims of misandry for a long time. Here’s the result. Some of the many topics we talk about in this podcast include:
Wh
S2 Ep11: Dating in a Patriarchy, With Jennie Young
Statistically, dating men in a patriarchy remains the most dangerous thing a woman can do. Patriarchy is deeply committed to shepherding us into romantic relationships because of the control these relationships exert—and because patriarchy wants to give every man a woman-appliance. This does not change the reality that many women want relationships with men—and that healthy relationships are possi
S2 Ep10: The Myth of the Bad Mother, with Ruthie Ackerman
“We are allowed to have a good life while giving our children good lives.” — Ruthie AckermanIn patriarchy, there’s no way to get motherhood right. No matter what you do, someone will always gleefully tell you it’s wrong—and then use this shame to attempt to shrink you. Patriarchy wants to convince women that the challenges of motherhood are personal, not political, that our failings are our own f
S2 Ep9: What's Wrong With Men? With Jessa Crispin
“We need to figure out how to create political, social solidarity that is not reliant on some sort of fantasy that they have to see us, hear us, etc. That idea that we need to be in perfect harmony to work together is not going to happen. It’s a fool’s errand, a waste of time and energy. That doesn’t mean you can’t work with somebody…There’s so much energy wasted in the left on coming to consensu
S2 Ep8: Understanding the Logic of Misogyny With Philosopher Kate Manne
Misogyny isn’t really about hating women. After all, if pure hate explained everything, wouldn’t that mean that only mean men abuse women, and that misogynists never seek relationships with women? Men are able to mistreat women they claim to love because of the internal logic of misogyny. They’re not irrational or unhinged; they’re following a set of rules rooted in entitlement. Kate Manne is a ph
S2 Ep7: Why is patriarchy so afraid of women's anger? With Gemma Hartley
Women are angry, and rightfully so. Yet everywhere we go, men tell us we are too angry, and that if we were just nicer about our oppression, they’d knock if off. Anger, though, is key to women’s liberation. Writer Gemma Hartley is here to tell us why. About Gemma Hartley (and where to find her)Gemma Hartley is a freelance writer with a BA in writing from The University of Nevada, Reno. She is auth
S2 Ep6: Treating Children Like People Who Matter, With Dr. Naomi Fisher
“We depoliticize distress by locating it in the individual.” — Naomi Fisher Naomi Fisher helped me become a better mother without ever even meeting me. I stumbled across her work when one of my children was dealing with school anxiety. Doing so empowered me to take my child’s distress seriously and trust my instincts as a mother. In this podcast episode, Dr. Fisher and I discuss the myriad harms o
S2 Ep5: Revolutionary motherhood, the life cycle of an activist, and motherwhelm, with Beth Berry
The silencing and targeting of mothers is a deliberate act of damaging the next generation and attacking women. When we rob mothers of their power, we slow the process of human liberation.Beth Berry is a coach, mentor, and seasoned mother and activist who works with mothers to access their power so they can be changemakers. In this podcast episode, we talked about maternal activism, making friends
S2 Ep4: The shock of motherhood in a patriarchy, with Mary Catherine Starr
“I think about and write about this all the time, and yet I still think there’s something wrong with me that it’s so hard for me. It’s so hard to separate what we’ve been told…from the truth, which is that it’s not us.” — Mary Catherine StarrPatriarchy tells everyone motherhood is easy, and demands that mothers perform ease. The pressure to do this conceals the realities of motherhood, convincing
S2 Ep3: The Patriarchal Playbook: How it controls both women and men
The Patriarchal Playbook is my term for the set of canned responses, expectations, and norms men follow without thinking. This concept helps clarify why the behavior of sexist men is both predictable and often nonsensical. In this episode, Jeff and I discuss how that playbook damages heterosexual relationships and limits women’s options. We also go on a lot of sidequests, because we recorded this
S2 Ep2: Talking to your kids about sexism and oppression in the Trump Era: An Interview with Jo-Ann Finkelstein
The Trump presidency presents parents with a host of challenges. How do we help our kids feel safe while educating them about oppression? How can white parents inspire their kids to be accomplices standing with the most vulnerable? How can we help kids assess the risk this presidency poses to them and act accordingly? And perhaps most importantly, how do we as parents manage our own emotions so we
S2 Ep1: The Great Divorce With Kate Anthony
“What we see is that men do not view us as full humans, as people who can have and make choices.”—Kate AnthonyWelcome back! This is the first episode of Season 2 of the Liberating Motherhood podcast. I hope you’ll follow and/or subscribe, because I have some truly amazing guests lined up for this season.Women initiate the overwhelming majority of divorces. The far right, incels, and other groups
S1 Ep9: Family Court Strategy With Kaitlyn Jorgensen: Why it Matters, How to Get it Right
Family court can be a brutal experience for women, especially those who have experienced abuse, neglect, and violence. While the standards in family courts seem neutral, gender bias has infiltrated every corner of our world, especially our highly conservative court system. Women face an uphill battle, a bias in favor of believing men, and a culture that prioritizes men’s access to their children
S1 Ep8: Why coercively controlling men are never good parents with Emma Katz
Content warning: This podcast extensively discusses all forms of intimate partner violence, some child abuse, and briefly discusses the death of a child, but not in graphic detail. Intimate partner violence is much more than physical violence. Every physically violent perpetrator was, for a time, not physically violent. The emotionally abusive, degrading, and controlling environment these perpetra
S1 Ep7: The epidemic of fake nice guys
Zawn and Jeff discuss why being a “nice guy” is a red flag, not a green one, why men who abuse women commonly claim to have been victims of abuse, and whether men ever deserve the benefit of the doubt.See some of my previous work on nice guys here:
Signs your 'nice guy' isn't actually a nice guy
The myth of the bumbling nice guy
S1 Ep6: Liberation is for Everyone: Decolonizing Feminism with Desiree Stephens
Desiree Stephens is an incredible racial justice and decolonization activist. I originally wanted to discuss with her the role of rest and pleasure in activism, but as is so often the case in conversations with Desiree, we ended up covering so much more ground. Desiree frames so many things in ways I’ve never heard them framed before. She can be quite confronting—leaving you with the choice of wal
S1 Ep5: The Epidemic of Sexual Abuse in Marriage
Sexual coercion in marriage is widespread and normalized. In roughly half of marriages, this coercion escalates to abuse. Men dismiss women as less sexual, and insist that women should therefore cater to men’s needs. The data suggest otherwise. Women avoid sex with men because men do not offer them sex that is worth having—and because they create abusive environments that destroy sexual desire. Me
S1 Ep4: The nightmare of childbirth in a patriarchy
Bringing life into the world should be a source of immense power--and often, it is. But in a patriarchy, we endeavor to destroy women's power. This is why patriarchy has turned childbirth into a dangerous, traumatic nightmare. Learn about the state of childbirth, and what you can do to push back--and why it's a partner's obligation to protect and support the person giving birth.Zawn and Jeff have
S1 Ep3: How bad is heterosexual marriage for women?
Why is it that we respond to proposals and weddings with joy rather than terror? We know that men are the biggest public health threat to women, and that most marriages are inequitable and unhappy. Yet patriarchy promotes this disconnect. Learn why in this episode.
S1 Ep2: Household labor inequity as a key feminist issue
View some of Zawn's surveys on household labor inequity here: https://zawn.substack.com/t/surveys
S1 Ep1: Episode 1: Why are men so angry at their partners?
Men are angry at their partners. But why, in a world where women are already doing a disproportionate share of relational, household, and parenting labor, do men feel so disenfranchised? Follow Zawn at zawn.substack.com or https://www.facebook.com/zawnv/
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