fiction/non/fiction
Hosted by Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan, fiction/non/fiction interprets current events through the lens of literature, and features conversations with writers of all stripes, from novelists and poets to journalists and essayists.
Episodes
S9 Ep. 52 Yiyun Li on Art, Fame, History, and Music Against the Night
Acclaimed writer Yiyun Li returns to the show to talk about her new novel, Music Against the Night, with co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell. Li explains how she first became interested in fictionalizing the lives of married musicians John Field and Adelaide Percheron and reflects on the limits, challenges, and opportunities of conducting historical research for fiction. She
S9 Ep. 51 T. Geronimo Johnson on Atlanta, White Supremacy, and The Occidental Book of the Dead
Award-winning fiction writer T. Geronimo Johnson joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to talk about his new novel, The Occidental Book of the Dead. He discusses how the book addresses white supremacy and the United States’ deep-seated and racist mythology through the perspective of George Washington Jonson, a black police officer working in a fictional version of Atlanta
S9 Ep. 50 James Richardson on Within the Hour: Poems and Aphorisms, 1971-2026
Poet James Richardson joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and Christian Barter to talk about his collection of new and selected poetry, Within the Hour. Richardson discusses how his early fascination with science and his enjoyment of science fiction has influenced his poetry and considers the way his aphorisms counterbalance his more lyric poems. He reflects on the role that literary criticism
S9 Ep. 49 Sam A. Miller on YouTube Storytelling and Choosing Science Fiction
Fiction writer and popular YouTuber Sam A. Miller joins co-hosts Christian Barter and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about his debut story collection, Still Lost: Tales from the Year 2080, as well as his educational and comedic videos. Miller reflects on how he got started on YouTube a decade ago, when he was an adolescent, and amassed 4.8 million followers by developing Sam O’Nella Academy,
S9 Ep. 48 Emily McBride on Maternal Mental Health and the Lindsay Clancy Trial
Fiction writer Emily McBride joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss her debut novel, Queen Mab, and maternal mental health. McBride talks about the media frenzy around the trial of Lindsay Clancy, a Massachusetts woman charged with killing her three children, and considers how Clancy’s insanity defense has seized the public imagination, prompting new conversatio
S9 Ep. 47 Robert Moor on Rethinking Environmentalism Tree by Tree
Nonfiction writer Robert Moor joins co-hosts Christian Barter and Jennifer Maritza McCauley to talk about his new book, In Trees, and the power of “tree thinking,” a concept developed by the evolutionary biologist Robert J. O’Hara. Moor explains how this form of thought emphasizes branching, growth, and pruning, as opposed to hierarchical ordering, and shows how these principles can be id
S9 Ep. 46 G’Ra Asim on 99 Problems Finding the 1
Nonfiction writer G’Ra Asim joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to talk about his new book, 99 Problems Finding the 1: a love story (sort of). Asim discusses Afropessimism, heteropessimism, and their relationship to his pursuit of love as a cis straight black man; defines the idea of “thinkful wishing”; and recalls the ways in which black couples in his family, includin
S9 Ep. 45 Aruni Kashyap on India’s Cockroach Youth Movement
Novelist Aruni Kashyap joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Jennifer Maritza McCauley to talk about the surprising surge of a new youth movement in India. Kashyap, the author of a new novel, How to Date a Fanatic, about young queer academics navigating the Indian campus protests of the mid-2010s, explains how the Chief Justice of India likening unemployed youth to “cockroaches and paras
S9 Ep. 44 Claudia Rankine on Triage, Antigone, and Collapse
Poet, essayist, and playwright Claudia Rankine joins co-hosts Christian Barter, Jennifer Maritza McCauley and Whitney Terrell to talk about her new book Triage. Rankine outlines the decades-long relationship between the book’s narrator and a character she names “the theorist,” who, as college students, develop the habit of collapsing whenever they greet each other. She talks about h
S9 Ep. 43 Dino Martins on Cyclospora, Screwworms, and Our Lives with Parasites
Entomologist Dino Martins joins co-host V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to talk about the Cyclospora outbreak that has sickened thousands of people across the U.S., as well as the New World screwworm that has been affecting the cattle population. Martins, the author of a new book called Hidden Creatures: Luscious Leeches, Bashful Botflies, and the Wondrous, History-Shaping World o
S9 Ep. 42 Joshua Jelly-Schapiro on Harry Belafonte’s Extraordinary Art & Activism
Non-fiction writer Joshua Jelly-Schapiro joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Christian Barter to talk about the life of performer and activist Harry Belafonte, who died in 2023. Jelly-Schapiro, the author of a new biography of Belafonte, considers the entertainer’s distinctive combination of mainstream appeal and radical politics. He notes how Belafonte’s vault to stardom and success w
S9 Ep. 41 Lupe Mendez on Texas Politics and the Killing of Lorenzo Salgado Araujo
Houston-based poet Lupe Mendez joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and Jennifer Maritza McCauley to discuss ICE raids, the killing of Lorenzo Salgado Araujo, and the political climate in Texas heading into the midterms. Mendez details the last few minutes of Araujo’s life and talks about the government’s altered story of Araujo’s death. Mendez also explains why he decided to write about the Me
S9, Ep. 40 Molly Crabapple on the Jewish Bund and Here Where We Live Is Our Country
Artist and writer Molly Crabapple joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about the Jewish Labor Bund and its socialist, secular, anti-Zionist principles. Crabapple, whose artist great-grandfather Sam Rothbort was part of the organization, discusses researching and writing her New York Times bestselling book, Here Where We Live Is Our Country: The Story of the Jewis
S9 Ep. 39 Nate Bukaty on World Cup 2026 and the Heart of American Soccer
MLS commentator Nate Bukaty joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about Kansas City’s influence on American soccer and how the city came to host the World Cup. Bukaty is the co-author of Perfect Pitch: How Kansas City Became the Heart of American Soccer and Landed the World Cup along with the writer Rustin Dodd. He discusses how immigration and local leaders like
S9 Ep. 38 Peter Hessler on the Implications of a Chinese Education
Acclaimed nonfiction writer Peter Hessler joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about his new memoir, Other Rivers: A Chinese Education. Hessler, a New Yorker staff writer who first went to China as a teacher in the 1990s, explains how education there shifted between that era and 2019, when he returned to Sichuan Province with his wife and daughters to teach Engli
S9 Ep. 37 Soman Chainani on the Dream of a Young President
Young adult novelist Soman Chainani joins co-hosts Christian Barter and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss the impact of age on politics. Chainani, the author of a new novel called Young World that features a teenage everyman’s unlikely rise to the presidency, explains trying to make his premise as plausible as possible using devices like a Supreme Court decision, a split Electoral College, a
S9 Ep. 36 Matthew Wolfe on the Secret History of Radical Environmentalism
Journalist Matthew Wolfe joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new book Fires in the Night: The Earth Liberation Front, the FBI, and a Secret History of Eco-Sabotage. Wolfe talks about the history of environmental activism, including its rarely discussed bipartisan past, and explains how industry made climate change a Democratic and progressive issue. He re
S9 Ep. 35 Deb Olin Unferth on Our Apocalypse Now World
Writer Deb Olin Unferth joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and Christian Barter to discuss the enduring power of apocalyptic narratives and her new novel Earth 7. The novel follows the life of Dylan, the daughter of a researcher, cast adrift on an earth that has been depopulated by war and environmental collapse. As Dylan’s mother tries to replicate and preserve the DNA of the earth’s now ext
S9 Ep. 34 Ben Fountain on Rasputin and Trump’s Coming Third Term
Novelist Ben Fountain joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new book, Rasputin Swims the Potomac. Fountain's satire, set in the not-to-distant future, describes the furor, scandal, and hysterical “weeping sickness” that arrives in the wake of the fictional President’s decision to seek an unprecedented third term. Fountain talks about the technical choices h
S9 Ep. 33 Sarah Pearsall on the Worldwide Scope of the American Revolution
Historian Sarah Pearsall joins co-hosts Jennifer Maritza McCauley and Whitney Terrell to discuss her new book, Freedom Round the Globe: a World History of the American Revolution. As we approach the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Pearsall talks about how she chose to write about the global context of the American Revolution. She explains how the hanging of an indige
S9 Ep. 32 Barry Walters on LGBTQ Music 1969-2000
Music critic Barry Walters joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and Christian Barter to discuss his new book, Mighty Real: A History of LGBTQ Music 1969-2000. Walters talks about how he chose the artists that he includes in his book and explains how musicians like David Bowie, Lou Reed, Grace Jones, and Sylvester saved his life. He explores how social repression shaped and complicated work from
S9 Ep. 31 Christian B. Miller on The Honesty Crisis
Wake Forest University Professor of Philosophy Christian B. Miller joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and Jennifer Maritza McCauley to discuss his newest work of nonfiction, The Honesty Crisis: Preserving Our Most Treasured Virtue in an Increasingly Dishonest World. Miller argues that integrity and honesty are rapidly disintegrating and we are quickly losing social norms around truth-telling.
S9 Ep. 30 Rebecca Lehmann on Anne Boleyn, Trump, and Treason
Writer Rebecca Lehmann joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her debut novel, The Beheading Game, a work of speculative historical fiction in which King Henry VIII’s second wife, the beheaded Queen of England Anne Boleyn, comes back to life after her wrongful execution, sews her head back on, and seeks revenge. Lehmann considers the contested history of Anne Bo
S9 Ep. 29 Scott Anderson on the Iranian Revolution
Veteran war correspondent and Kirkus Prize winner Scott Anderson joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and Jennifer Maritza McCauley to discuss his new nonfiction book King of Kings, a history of the Iranian Revolution. Anderson examines how rapid modernization, inequality, and U.S. influence destabilized Iran, and traces the rise of Ruhollah Khomeini from exiled cleric to revolutionary leader.
S9 Ep. 28: Liam Callanan on Trump Vs. the Pope
Acclaimed novelist Liam Callanan joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss American-born Pope Leo XIV’s recent conflicts with the Trump administration. Callanan, who is Catholic, contextualizes the pope’s critiques of the Iran war and other political comments within the long history of the Vatican’s outspokenness against social injustices. Callanan also talks about
S9 Ep. 27: Caroline Bicks on Stephen King’s Archives of Horror
Writer and scholar Caroline Bicks, the Stephen E. King Chair in Literature at the University of Maine, joins co-hosts Jennifer Maritza McCauley and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her time in King’s archives, an experience which resulted in her new book Monsters in the Archives: My Year of Fear with Stephen King. Bicks talks about meeting King and exploring his early drafts, dramatic revis
S9 Ep. 26 Chris Hadfield on Final Orbit, Artemis II, and the Future of Space
Retired astronaut and novelist Chris Hadfield joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss space exploration, geopolitics, and his new book, Final Orbit. Hadfield recalls watching the Apollo 11 Moon Landing as a child and considers how these historic missions capture public imagination. He explains the risks of reentry and splashdown for Artemis II as well as the scie
S9 Ep. 25 Kathryn Paige Harden on Behavior, Genetics, and Blame
Psychologist, behavioral geneticist and writer Kathryn Paige Harden joins co-hosts Jennifer Maritza McCauley and Whitney Terrell to discuss her new book, Original Sin: On the Genetics of Vice, the Problem of Blame, and the Future of Forgiveness. Harden talks about the chemistry of human behavior, how society has shaped its views of different communities, the relationship between hereditab
S9 Ep. 24 Ana Gavrilovska on Pynchon’s Prescient Technofascism
Writer Ana Gavrilovska joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to talk about her recent article for Current Affairs, "Thomas Pynchon Saw American Fascism Coming." Gavrilovska reflects on Pynchon’s long career and his interest in writing about systems, how his time as a technical writer at Boeing informs his work, his classic novels Gravity’s Rainbow and The Crying of Lot 49
S9 Ep. 23 Ellie Roscher on Fair Game and the Future for Trans Athletes
Author Ellie Roscher joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Jennifer Maritza McCauley to talk about her recent book, Fair Game: Trans Athletes and the Future of Sports, which explores the roadblocks transgender athletes face and the triumphs they achieve despite these challenges. Roscher discusses the harmful myths surrounding trans athletes and describes the current bans against their pa
S9 Ep. 22 Jeff Boyd on Cops, Teachers, and Chicago
Novelist Jeff Boyd joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to talk about his new work of literary crime fiction, Hard Times, which is set in Chicago, where he lived previously. The hosts ask about the influence of police procedurals on the portrayal of the novel’s main character, a mixed-race cop named Curtis, and Boyd considers whether there is a gray area between “good co
S9 Ep. 21 Daisy Hernandez on the Myth of Citizenship
Award-winning author Daisy Hernández joins co-hosts Jennifer Maritza McCauley and Whitney Terrell to talk about her new book, Citizenship: Notes on an American Myth. Hernández explains the history of the term “citizenship” and the damaging power it holds over a wide range of marginalized identities. She reflects on how educators can galvanize change around these issues in the classroom, a
S9 Ep. 20 James Sullivan on the Power of Protest Music
Pop culture critic James Sullivan joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss the history of American protest music. Sullivan, the author of the book Which Side Are You On?: 20th Century American History in 100 Protest Songs, talks about how music has been an important part of inspiring and supporting protest movements from anti-Vietnam War efforts to the Black Lives
S9 Ep.19 Brian Platzer on the Complex Ties Between Teachers and Students
Novelist, essayist, and educator Brian Platzer joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new novel, The Optimists, which follows private school teacher Mr. Keating over three decades. Platzer reflects on the real-life inspiration for the book, his own mentor, Rod Keating, and the fleeting intensity of teacher-student relationships that nevertheless turn out to
S9 Ep. 18: Yi-Ling Liu on Internet Censorship in China and the U.S.
Writer and editor Yi-Ling Liu joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and Jennifer Maritza McCauley to talk about state-controlled censorship. Liu, the author of a new book, The Wall Dancers: Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet, explores what it means to build community through the internet while contending with surveillance and suppression. Liu, Terrell, and McCauley disc
S9 Ep. 17 Eleanor Shearer on Migrants in Hiding and a Caribbean History of Canada
Novelist Eleanor Shearer joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss her new novel, Fireflies in Winter, which depicts the little-known history of how the Leeward Maroons of Jamaica—a free Black community descended from formerly enslaved Africans and indigenous people—came to Nova Scotia at the end of the 18th century. Shearer, who is British and has Caribbean ancest
S9 Ep. 16 Anjali Enjeti on Ballots and How Trump Wants to Steal Them
Award-winning journalist, activist, poll worker, and former attorney Anjali Enjeti discusses her new book, Ballot, which considers the real and metaphorical role that ballots play in our democracy. Co-hosts Whitney Terrell and Jennifer Maritza McCauley (in her first episode joining the co-host rotation) talk to Enjeti about her childhood encounters with ballots, the history of ballots in
S9 Ep. 15 Joe Jackson on the Spanish-American War and Trump’s Imperial Ambitions
Award-winning nonfiction writer and former investigative journalist Joe Jackson joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about President Trump’s “Don-roe Doctrine” and his imperial ambitions in Venezuela, Cuba, Greenland, and beyond. Jackson, the author of a new book, Splendid Liberators: Heroism, Betrayal, Resistance, and The Birth of American Empire, explains how T
S9, Ep. 14 Jessica Lopez Lyman on the History of State Violence in Minnesota
Interdisciplinary performance artist and Xicana feminist scholar Jessica Lopez Lyman joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about Minnesota’s history with state violence and local resistance to it, as well as ICE’s intensified presence in recent weeks. Lopez Lyman, the author of a new book, Place-Keepers: Latina/x Art, Performance, and Organizing in the Twin Cities
S9 Ep. 13: Vauhini Vara with Karan Mahajan on “What If Readers Like A.I.-Generated Fiction?”
Award-winning writers and longtime friends Vauhini Vara and Karan Mahajan join co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V. V. Ganeshananthan to discuss Vara’s recent New Yorker essay “What If Readers Like AI-Generated Fiction?” Vara explains recent research by scientist Tuhin Chakrabarty, who has attempted to fine-tune large language models to produce better writing by feeding them authors’ entire oe
S9 Ep. 12: Matthew Pearl on What We’ll Do For the Prize
Bestselling and award-winning writer Matthew Pearl joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new novel The Award. Pearl explores the relationship between cultural prizes and ideas of nationhood, as well as imposter syndrome and external validation, like MFAs, literary awards, and being seen writing in coffeeshops by and with other writers. He reflects on develo
S9 Ep. 11: Elizabeth McCracken on Writing About Writing, At Last
Acclaimed fiction writer and long-time creative writing professor Elizabeth McCracken joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V. V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her ninth book and first volume about craft, A Long Game: Notes on Writing Fiction. McCracken reflects on her long-held reluctance to attempt such a project and the impossibility of creating absolute rules for writing. She explains why sh
S9 Ep. 10: Maya Angelou Book Award Winner Alison C. Rollins on the Poetics of Sound, Space, and Image
2025 Maya Angelou Book Award winner Alison C. Rollins joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V. V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her 2024 poetry collection Black Bell. She explores the history and symbolism of a bell-laden iron device used to control and torture enslaved people and describes the replica she created after studying metalworking. She also recounts the story of Harriet Jacobs, who sp
S9 Ep. 9: Sven Beckert on the Global History of Capitalism
Pulitzer Prize finalist Sven Beckert joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about his new book, Capitalism: A Global History. Beckert describes capitalism as an ongoing process comparable in significance to geological forces; he examines the way it shapes our interactions with the world and notes its presence in every aspect of daily life. He recounts how it has be
S9 Ep. 8: Jacob Silverman on the Tech Bros’ Gilded Rage
Journalist Jacob Silverman joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about his new book, Gilded Rage: Elon Musk and the Radicalization of Silicon Valley. He discusses the rightward shift in ideology among leading tech giants and their companies, partially attributing the change to an interest in doing business with governments, including the U.S. and Israel. He speaks
S9 Ep. 7: Kathryn Nuernberger on Mutualism, Climate, and Finding Family at the End of the World
Poet and essayist Kathryn Nuernberger joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about her new collection of lyric essays, Held: Essays in Belonging, which is about symbiotic mutualisms, and grief and joy in an era of worsening climate change. She discusses COP30, the United Nations climate gathering currently underway in Brazil, and considers the global failure to kee
S9 Ep. 6: Ottilie Mulzet on Translating Hungarian Nobel Prize Winner László Krasznahorkai
Translator Ottilie Mulzet joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about her award-winning translations of Nobel Prize winner László Krasznahorkai’s work. Mulzet, who was born in Canada and now lives in the Czech Republic, discusses how she learned Hungarian and began working with Krasznahorkai. She explains the humor in his novels and how his background in music sha
S9 Ep. 5: Max Delsohn on the Importance of Portraying Trans Men
Fiction writer Max Delsohn joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his debut short story collection, Crawl, which features a number of transmasculine characters. Delsohn addresses the Trump administration’s broad and vicious assault on transgender Americans, from advertising misinformation to attacks on higher education. Given pending legislation, he considers ho
S9 Ep. 4: Ben Passmore on the History of Black Resistance
Graphic novelist Ben Passmore joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new graphic novel Black Arms To Hold You Up: A History of Black Resistance. Passmore explains the mix of personal reflection and historical storytelling in the book which follows the main character, a version of himself, time-traveling through a century of the Black radical tradition. Passm
S9 Ep. 3: Jelani Cobb on Race, Politics and the ‘Trayvon Martin Generation’
New Yorker staff writer Jelani Cobb joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new essay collection, Three or More is a Riot: Notes on How We Got Here: 2012-2025. Cobb recalls how he began the project by trying to understand how George Zimmerman’s killing of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin in 2012 set the tone for the era to come. Cobb considers how histor
S9 Ep. 2: Edwidge Danticat on Haiti and Trump, Past and Present
Acclaimed fiction writer and essayist Edwidge Danticat joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her new essay collection We’re Alone. Danticat reflects on misinformation and xenophobic rhetoric, such as Trump’s false 2024 debate claim about Haitian immigrants eating pets in Springfield, Ohio, and how that type of language and propaganda has broadened during Trump’
S9 Ep 1: Yiming Ma on the Future of Censorship
Fiction writer Yiming Ma joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new novel These Memories Do Not Belong To Us. Ma, who was born in Shanghai and visited China frequently after immigrating to the U.S. and Canada, talks about how terrifyingly easy it can be to live in a society in which censorship is the default, and the dangers of self-censorship. Ma, who has a
S8 Ep 52: Caleb Gayle on Black Settlers in the American West
Journalist Caleb Gayle joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new book Black Moses: A Saga of Ambition and the Fight for a Black State, which recounts the efforts of Edward McCabe, a Black settler who became a prominent politician in the late 1800s and spearheaded a mission to establish a majority-Black state in the American West. Gayle sets the scene of McC
S8 Ep. 51: Omar El Akkad on Gaza and Western Empire
Writer Omar El Akkad joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his recent nonfiction book, One Day, Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This, which was just nominated for the National Book Award in nonfiction. El Akkad talks about developing the arc of the book, which addresses how Israel’s genocide in Gaza led to his “breaking away from the notion that the poli
S8 Ep. 50: Jessica Francis Kane on Penelope Fitzgerald in Mexico
Novelist Jessica Francis Kane joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her new novel Fonseca, which fictionalizes writer Penelope Fitzgerald’s 1952 trip to Mexico. Kane talks about imagining Fitzgerald in her mid-thirties, before she had become a novelist, when she was living a financially precarious life and editing a journal with her husband Desmond. Kane reflec
S8 Ep. 49: Patrick Ryan on ‘The Good Heart’ of Buckeye
Fiction writer and editor Patrick Ryan joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his debut novel, Buckeye, which traces two generations of two Midwestern families connected by a secret. Ryan recalls the coincidental conversation that informed his portrayal of one character’s experiences with disability in World War II-era Ohio, and reflects on taking Ann Patchett’s
S8 Ep. 48: Jennifer Szalai and Alexandra Jacobs on Great American Road Trip Books
New York Times book critics Jennifer Szalai and Alexandra Jacobs join co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss their recent article, “Love Jack Kerouac? Read These Great American Road Trip Books Next,” which they co-authored with their fellow critic Dwight Garner, and which includes books published after Kerouac's On the Road. They talk about road trips as escapism, cla
S8 Ep. 47: Nicholas Boggs on James Baldwin’s Love Stories
Biographer Nicholas Boggs joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his groundbreaking new book, Baldwin: A Love Story, the first major biography of James Baldwin to be published in three decades. Boggs recalls how finding Baldwin’s only children’s book in a Yale library as a college student led him to track down the volume’s illustrator, the French artist Yoran Ca
S8 Ep. 46: Will Bardenwerper on Baseball’s Betrayal of Its Minor League Roots
Journalist Will Bardenwerper joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new book, Homestand: Small Town Baseball and the Fight for the Soul of America, which explores the consequences of Major League Baseball cutting 40 affiliated minor league teams, each one only as expensive as an average Major League salary. He explains how the accessibility and affordability
S8 Ep. 45: Barbara Kingsolver on Supporting Appalachian Women Recovering from Addiction
Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Barbara Kingsolver joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her support of Higher Ground, a long-term residence for women recovering from addiction. Kingsolver talks about Lee County, Virginia, which is both Higher Ground’s location and the setting for her wildly successful novel Demon Copperhead, which transforms Charles Dickens’ D
S8 Ep. 44: Vanity Fair’s Dan Adler on Jeffrey Epstein and What Ghislaine Maxwell Knows
Vanity Fair journalist Dan Adler joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his coverage of Ghislaine Maxwell, who was convicted in 2021 of facilitating Jeffrey Epstein’s sexual abuse of minors. Adler explains how Maxwell, who is currently serving a 20-year sentence and was just interviewed by the Department of Justice, has recently emerged as a key figure in unlock
S8 Ep. 43: Gary Shteyngart on Vera, or Faith and American Authoritarians
Acclaimed novelist Gary Shteyngart joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new novel, Vera, or Faith, which explores American identity, politics, and immigrant experiences in the near future through the eyes of the eponymous 10-year-old protagonist. Shteyngart talks about the novel’s speculative “Five-Three” amendment, a proposal to give those who can trace t
S8 Ep. 42: Ed Park on An Oral History of Atlantis
Pulitzer Prize finalist Ed Park joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his debut short story collection, An Oral History of Atlantis. Park talks about writing the stories in the book over a period of about 25 years, during which he was frequently asked to read in New York and crafted work for specific venues, audiences, and events. He explains how this led to a
S8 Ep. 41: Raina Lipsitz on Mamdani, DSA, and the Rise of a New Left
Writer Raina Lipsitz joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss Zohran Mamdani’s surprise win in the Democratic primary for New York City mayor. Lipsitz explains how Mamdani, a 33-year-old Muslim politician supported by the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), appealed to a wide swath of voters to upset three-term governor Andrew Cuomo. She talks about volunteeri
S8 Ep. 40: Dina Nayeri on Iranian Life Under Attack
Prize-winning Iranian American author Dina Nayeri joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss the complicated reality of survival on the ground during Israel’s recent bombing of Iran. Nayeri talks about the destruction leveled on Ardestoon, where her father’s family lives; her memories of running for bomb shelters during the Iran-Iraq war; and the current situation f
S8 Ep. 39: Ernesto Londoño on the Personal Cost of Minnesota’s Political Killings
New York Times reporter Ernesto Londoño joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss the recent murder of Minnesota state representative Melissa Hortman, which has made headlines as local politicians in the U.S. are rarely targeted for assassination. Londoño describes how a gunman posing as law enforcement went to the homes of several state politicians, killing Hortma
S8 Ep. 38: Geoff Dyer on His New Memoir, Homework
Writer Geoff Dyer joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new memoir Homework, which covers Dyer’s working-class youth in England during the 1960s and ’70s. He recollects his early passion for reading and film and reflects on writing about his parents, as well as the intensity of childhood play and collecting in the wake of the Second World War. He also expla
S8 Ep. 37: Jess Walter on the American Family Unplugged
Fiction writer Jess Walter joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new novel So Far Gone, in which a former environmental reporter living off the grid is jolted back onto it by the surprise arrival of his two grandchildren and news of his missing daughter. Walter talks about developing the character of his protagonist’s son-in-law, whose right-wing politics a
S8 Ep. 36: Susan Choi on Flashlight
Acclaimed fiction writer Susan Choi joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her new novel, Flashlight. Choi talks about the opening incident, in which a girl goes for a walk on the beach in Japan with her father only for him to disappear, presumably drowned. Choi explains the novel’s relationship to a short story she published in The New Yorker in 2020 and how th
S8 Ep. 35: Paul Elie on Art, Faith, and Sex in 1980s America–and the New Pope
Nonfiction writer Paul Elie joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new book The Last Supper: Art, Faith, Sex, and Controversy in the 1980s and Pope Leo XIV. Elie compares the new pope to John Paul II, whose conservative views shaped the 1980s. He explains how and why ’80s artists like Andy Warhol, U2, and Bob Dylan produced art he considers “crypto-religious
S8 Ep. 34: Julia Elliott on Small-Town Voters and Trump’s Tariff Trap
Fiction writer Julia Elliott joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V Ganeshananthan to talk about why President Trump’s tariff policy appeals to voters in small towns in the Midwest and South, which have been economically devastated for the past couple of decades following the North American Free Trade Agreement. Elliott considers Democrats’ failure to articulate their own successes using
S8 Ep. 33: Mirza Waheed on India, Pakistan, and the Literature of Partition
Novelist and journalist Mirza Waheed joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V Ganeshananthan to talk about brewing tensions between two nuclear powers: India and Pakistan. Waheed, who was born in Kashmir and previously worked as a journalist, explains how the recent massacre of Indian tourists there at the hands of militants connects to a broader context that includes Partition, the 1947 ev
S8 Ep. 32: Hamilton Nolan on DIY Opinion Writing
Writer Hamilton Nolan joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V Ganeshananthan to talk about opinion journalism. Nolan, who writes frequently about labor and politics, discusses how and why he entered journalism, the myth of objectivity, and how he views the relationship between activism and journalism. He explains how long it took for him to make money on Substack, reflects on what it means
S8 Ep. 31: Rešoketšwe Manenzhe on Trump’s South African Connection
South African writer Rešoketšwe Manenzhe joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about the influence that wealthy South African immigrants like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel are having on the Trump administration and conservative U.S. politics in general. Manenzhe talks about how growing up under apartheid may have shaped these men’s views, how South Africans view Musk
S8 Ep. 30: Jodie Hare on the Politics of Neurodiversity
Following Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s widely publicized and false claims about autism, writer Jodie Hare joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V Ganeshananthan to talk about the politics of neurodiversity and the importance of autistic communities. Hare, who was diagnosed as autistic in adulthood, explains how the pathologization of the autistic populatio
S8 Ep. 29: Vauhini Vara on AI, Art, and Memory
Acclaimed novelist and journalist Vauhini Vara joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V Ganeshananthan to discuss her new essay collection, Searches: Selfhood in the Digital Age. Vara talks about the rise of the loser tech bro, internet privacy, Google search logs, the power and limits of turning one’s collected personal data into art, and whether a recently publicized AI-authored short sto
S8 Ep. 28: Sheila Sundar on International Scholars
Following ICE’s detention of Columbia University graduate student Mahmoud Khalil and the sudden revocation of hundreds of student visas across the country, professor and novelist Sheila Sundar joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about the targeting of international university students, especially those involved in pro-Palestine speech or protests, by the Trump a
S8 Ep. 27: Meghan O’Rourke on The End of the University
Essayist, poet, and Yale Review editor Meghan O’Rourke joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about her recent New York Times piece, “The End of the University as We Know It.” O’Rourke discusses the situation at Columbia University; the Trump administration’s attacks on other universities, including the threats to deport international students for participation in
S8 Ep. 26: Alex Higley on True Failure and Shark Tank
Novelist Alex Higley joins host V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about his new novel, True Failure, in which a man fired from his job decides not to tell his wife what happened and attempts to change his fortunes by applying to join the cast of a Shark Tank-like show. Higley discusses how he experiences the news in Trump 2.0; lying as avoidance and as emotional refuge; and two big American lie
S8 Ep. 25: Edmund White on The Loves of My Life
Novelist, memoirist and biographer Edmund White joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about his recent book, The Loves of My Life: A Sex Memoir. White talks about the changes he has witnessed the LGBTQ+ community go through over the years and the hostility the transgender population faces under the Trump-Vance regime. He discusses a general concern older members o
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