The Science of Scaling
Each week, host Mark Roberge (Sr. Lecturer at Harvard Business School, Co-Founder at Stage 2 Capital, Founding CRO at HubSpot) talks with the most successful sales leaders in tech to find out the science behind scaling a company's revenue and sales.
Episodes
Every Founder Needs To Sell w/ Frederic Kerrest (Co-Founder, Okta)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
Every founder needs to sell. If you're not comfortable selling, then get comfortable.
I see too many founders think that once they've secured the first revenue & gotten Series A they can hire a professional sales team. Wrong.
Today's guest Frederic Kerrest (Co-Fou
Rule of 40 vs Grow At All Costs w/ Mark Wayland (CRO, Box)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
When budgets are tight and every rep needs to perform, you need force multipliers, not more headcount.
Sometimes you need Rule of 40 -- a private equity orientation that can still lead to great success for the founders, the executives, and the investors.
Mark W
How to Pivot The Model, The Playbook & The Team When The Macro Changes w/ Carina Brockl (fmr. CRO, Aurora Solar)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
You've navigated your company to unicorn status. Crack the champagne, ring the bell, and hang the banner. Only, months later the macro changes.
Now, you need to pivot the model, pivot the playbook, and pivot the team.
Today I'm joined by Carina Brockl, (fmr. CRO, Aur
GTM in the AI Era w/ Andy Shorkey (CRO, Writer)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
There's tremendous conviction that AI is eating the software ecosystem.
Well, today we speak with Andy Shorkey (CRO, Writer).
Not only is he navigating all the complexities of bringing native AI products to market, he's also reinventing the way that go-to market is
How to Cold Call When 90% Hang Up (Roleplay)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
Send me your cold calls! Email us at TheScienceofScaling@gmail.com.
I'll help you set more meetings &. we'll use your call in an upcoming video.
So Producer Matthew fails at cold calling. But he learns the framework that actually works.
*Stop freezing up on sales
The Founder Selling to Professional Sales Transition w/ Dmitry Shevelenko (CBO, Perplexity)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
Perplexity is attempting something no one thought possible: Challenging Google for search dominance.
Dmitri Shevelenko was advising five different orgs, before fully signing on to Perplexity. What energy and pull he found from this vision?
And he unpacks how Perplexi
The Day-One Enterprise Strategy w/ Ed Calnan (Co-Founder, Seismic)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
Imagine passing $5 million with three customers. That is whale hunting.
Going after big customers with big deals from day one isn't advisable. But sometimes it's the only path.
Today, Ed Calnan (Co-Founder and Fmr. CRO, Seismic) walks us through how to get big accou
The Critical Importance of Focusing Your ICP w/ Dan Sperring (Founder, AlignICP)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
Companies with a very tightly defined ICP that is operationalized on the frontline spend 50% less on sales and marketing.
They have CAC payback periods that are 24% shorter than the mean, and those ICP customers have a 425% higher expansion rate in the first 12 mont
How to Close Your First Million Dollar Deal
Grab our guide to transform your sales approach: https://clickhubspot.com/zrjp
The amount of personalization is off the charts. The amount of time and money you're willing to invest is enormous. Because it's a million dollar deal.
I'll walk you through how to navigate complex Decision Making Units, adapt your entire sales playbook for enterprise deals, and implement advanced qualification f
Perfecting a Bottoms Up & Top Down Sales Motion w/ Chris Merritt (Founding CRO, Cloudflare)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
What if I told you to build the sales team that doesn't talk about price or packaging? That doesn't even do discovery or qualification on budget or authority on the first call?
You'd think I'm crazy.
Chris Merritt (Founding CRO, Cloudflare) built a sales team tha
Create a Billion Dollar Sales Culture w/ Greg Holmes (CRO, Zoom)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
We all know Zoom. The company that helped society get through the global pandemic. But before they even had a dollar in revenue, Greg Holmes was the first sales hire and built the team.
When Greg left the company, Zoom was valued at $140 billion.
He credits his ab
Predictable, Scalable, Revenue w/ Ron Gabrisko (CRO, Databricks)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
Start the GTM section of your investor pitch deck with three words: Predictable, Scalable, Revenue. I don't know why it works so well. It seems so intuitive, but like every investor's like, "I love this guy! That's what I want."
Yeah, , we all want that, but the que
Sales is Not Magic, It's Math w/ Loren Padelford (Founding CRO, Shopify)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
Index on impact, not work. Care about the impact people have, not the work they're doing. It's something too many sales leaders forget.
Loren Padelford, who transformed Shopify Plus from zero to $1 billion in revenue in just seven years, is proudly a non-traditional s
How to Hire Sales Reps for AI Products w/ Lauren Nemeth (Fmr COO, Pinecone)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
You're a CRO at a $4B company with 2,000 sellers. You've made it. Then comes an unexpected call: Want to lead sales at a 40-person team doing $25M? Most would laugh.
Not Lauren Nemeth. As Twilio's sales leader, she saw something bigger in Pinecone - a chance to shape
AI Is Reshaping The Way We Prospect w/ Henry Schuck (Founder & CEO, ZoomInfo)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
"I have an amazing idea for a startup." That goes through the mind of every entrepreneur. Step #1: Raise venture capital to fund it.
Wrong.
People are always shocked to hear that more wealth is created in non venture-backed startups than in venture-backed ones. Bu
How to Build Your MVP & Sales Playbook At The Same Time w/ Mike Gamson (Founding CRO, LinkedIn)
Get the Science of Scaling Database! Real Playbooks from Billion-Dollar Companies: https://clickhubspot.com/scienceofscaling
There's a connection few founders make — customer interview best practices & deciding what product to build are almost exactly the same as building your sales playbook.
Those best practices should influence your zero to one minimal viable product design.
And during t
Live at INBOUND 2024: How to Use Inbound Selling to Increase Revenue w/ Donald Kelly (Founder, The Sales Evangelist)
New season coming soon! Until then, enjoy this tactical conversation I had with Donald Kelly (Founder & Host, The Sales Evangelist).
We pack more knowledge inside 25 minutes than most sales leaders get in a month -- including performance diagnostics, addressing stakeholder interests, pricing models, and attuning sales rep mindsets.
We always love to hear from you so reach out to us at podcasts@h
Q&A | How Do You Solve for a Siloed Marketing and Sales?
Are marketers just doing a bunch of arts & crafts? Are salespeople spoiled brats? I don't want to offend anyone, but I think most folks would chuckle at this: Sales and marketing leaders don't naturally get along.
So what's the solve for a siloed marketing and sales?
Let's talk through some key steps towards holding everyone accountable to meeting our revenue goals:
Team communication responsi
Q&A | What Is Mark Reading, Watching, and Listening To?
You wanted to know about me?! I'm flattered, humbled, and happy to share what's been inspiring me lately.
Everything from my favorite comedians to my thoughts on the Innovator's Dilemma.
I want to know what you're wondering about! Submit your question at podcasts@hubspot.com, dropping a note on LinkedIn, or leaving a comment on Spotify.
Grab the 3 Steps to a Perfect Pitch guide here https://cli
Q&A | How Can Sales Culture Be Influenced From the Top Down?
Today's listener Q&A is all about scaling your culture. We want to move GTM and sales away from an uncontrollable art form to a data-driven, predictable process. And that starts at the top.
Our questions is -- "How can sales culture be influenced from the top down?"
Here's what you can expect:
"Scalable Visibility" through inspecting every aspect of your GTM
Effective coaching strategies for y
Q&A | How Do You Decide Whether CS or Sales Owns Revenue from Customers?
Today we have another mailbag question, and let me tell you: I love these.
Today's question is one that's come up a lot lately for the portfolio over at Stage 2 Capital -- "How do you decide whether CS or Sales owns revenue from customers?"
Here's what you can expect:
Pros & cons in specializing roles between hunters and farmers
A framework for decision making based on LTV captured in the firs
How to Build a Billion Dollar Outbound Sales Team w/ Carrie Bosworth (SVP Sales, Checkr)
Is the startup you're about to join gonna become a unicorn? That's the billion dollar question. It's so hard to tell.
But one of the leading indicators of that that's rarely talked about is whether they're scaling to massive revenue through only inbound leads. It's so hard to find those companies. And if you do latch on.
That's what happened with Carrie Bosworth, who a few years ago joined Che
Becoming a Unicorn Doesn't Happen By Chance w/ Dini Mehta (fmr CRO, Lattice)
You're looking for your next job. The last one didn't go so well. You gotta get this one right, and you found one. But how do you know if it's good and how do you know you can help?
That's an important riddle.
And today we bring in my friend Dini Mehta , the founding CRO of Lattice.
She saw that this company wasn't exactly growing in its infancy, but she came across Jack Altman, Sam Altman'
Expanding to Multi-Product Selling w/ Ryan Meadows (SVP Global Sales, Klaviyo)
Expanding from selling a single product to multiple products. It's almost a required journey for getting to unicorn status. And yet that journey often leads to failure.
Most companies think, "Mobilize the organization, train the sales team, build the product, get the customer support folks trained, change the website." Only, that's the approach that leads to failure.
So today we bring in Ryan
The Secret to Toast's Coaching Culture w/ Jonathan Vassil (CRO, Toast)
If a sales rep receives more than three hours of coaching a month, they beat their quota by 7% on average. If they receive less than two hours of coaching a month, they miss by 10%. (Corporate Executive Board)
Building a world class coaching culture is one of the most important ways to scale your sales and revenue. And that's what Jonathan Vassil (CRO, Toast) has done.
Jonathan talks bout:
Imp
There Is No Post-Sales in SaaS w/ Sangeeta Chakraborty (CRO, Miro)
Have you ever reflected on the term post sale? Why do we call that post sale? When did we stop selling? And what have we started to do? Create customer value. Renew and expand.
I've never thought about it until today's episode with Sangeeta Chakraborty (CRO, Miro) — a recent Silicon Valley darling. And what's really cool and unique about her is she grew up in customer success.
Customer success
How to Use Gong Like The Team Who Developed It w/ Ryan Longfield (fmr CRO, Gong)
You're the sales leader of a unicorn. Selling the tool that every sales leader tries to optimize around. So the question is: How do you and your team use it?
We're learning from Ryan Longfield (fmr. CRO, Gong) about how to run your sales org like a billion dollar company using the same software we're all using. Because it turns out, almost all of us are not unlocking its real potential
You'll al
How to Build an Advisory Board w/ Jen Grant (COO, Cube)
You're a first time founder, CEO, or sales leader. You've crushed the Seed stage of your business, and got the $10 million Series A check. Now you're at your board meeting. The multi-decade venture capitalist is feeding you with advice and counsel. And you take it.
The problem is: They're wrong sometimes. But how do you know — you've never been in this seat before?
As an independent board membe
Listener Q&A | What Future Revenue Space Challenges Can You Predict Today?
You spoke and we listened. We cover a lot of the science of scaling in our episodes, but we know there's plenty of questions you still have. So we'll be answering listener questions periodically on the show.
Send your question to Mark on LinkedIn, at our email address podcasts@hubspot.com, or on Spotify's Q&A prompt on your phone.
Today, Mark predicts the future of AI in the revenue space and how
Moving From Big Company to Startup Sales Roles w/ Jeff Perry (CRO, Carta)
We're in the Q2 board meeting, and we have a huge decision ahead: Who is our next sales leader? We're sifting through the candidates and one person says, ah, they're two big company. What does that mean to big company?
Jeff Perry (CRO, Carta) knew he had to check his ego at the door if he was going to find success coming from a sales org like Oracle to lead a then 50 person team at Carta.
Here'
The Power of Community Led Growth to Drive Demand w/ Paul St. John (Ex-GitHub)
Probably the most common and important early stage go-to-market question I get from founders and first sales leaders is this: What are creative new ways to create demand for my sales team?
It's a forever question, and it's so hard. Usually it's about understanding what's coming next. Best practices that haven't been exploited yet.
I have a hypothesis — it's community-led growth, CLG.
My friend
It’s Time to Ditch Your Commission Plan w/ Nick Dellis (VP of Revenue, Mercury)
I'm rewriting some of my Science of Scaling framework after this conversation. It knocked me off my chair, if we're being honest here.
It's about the commission plan.
When I asked Nick Dellis (VP of Revenue, Mercury) about his team's commission plan, he said, "We don't have one."
And Nick makes a strong case for why it might be high time for your company to ditch its commission plan too.
Resourc
How to Perfect Land and Expand w/ Kyle Duffy (VC, Gradient Ventures)
Today we're doing something a little different. We've heard from sales leaders, but what about the other side of the scaling equation: Venture Capital.
Kyle Duffy joins us from Gradient Ventures, part of Google parent Alphabet, specializing in early stage investing in AI and machine learning. Exciting stuff, to say the least.
Kyle unpacks early stages of go-to-market development — what are the big
How to Navigate Sales Cycles w/ Ang McManamon (VP of Sales, Crunchbase)
We've gone from arguably the biggest bull market in the history of tech in 2020-2021 to arguably tech's biggest down cycles in 2022-2023.
It's not the first time, and it won't be the last.
What does that mean for a sales leader? What does that mean for the pressures you're getting from your CEO, from the leadership team, from the board? How do you manage expectations, culture, product pivots, and
How to Diligence Marketing and Sales Leadership Roles w/ Sydney Sloan & Adam Aarons (CMO & CRO, Drata)
Sales leaders often diligence the CEO, but they quickly realize they should've done the same for the CMO. Same for the other way around. It's a topic not even Mark has yet to fully codify.
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Sydney Sloan (CMO, Drata) and Adam Aarons (CRO, Drata) to discuss how the two navigated their way into a unicorn-worthy partnership. They'll talk about:
The importance of market
Community-Led Growth w/ Andrew Ettinger (CRO, Appen)
Community-led growth involves multiple communities, including core user communities, spheres of influence (like executives or department heads), and the intersection of these communities. And when you run it alongside a PLG motion, it can be truly powerful.
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Andrew Ettinger (CRO, Appen) to discuss applying a community-led growth model at your org. In this episode lea
How to Scale a Billion Dollar Sales Team w/ John McMahon (Board Member, Snowflake)
No matter what stage your company is in, you need to build a best in class sales team. And no one knows how to do that better than today's guest.
Host Mark Roberge is joined by John McMahon (Board Member, Snowflake & MongoDB) to get super tactical on how to build a billion dollar rev org. They discuss:
Plan & scale revenue based on productivity models
Why zero attrition is a bad sign
How to pl
The Untold Story of Scaling HubSpot's Sales Team w/ Brian Halligan (Co-Founder, HubSpot)
Today we have the architect behind the go-to-market strategy. We're going to laugh, we're going to cry. We're gonna talk about the most important go-to-market strategic moves that made HubSpot what it is today.
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Brian Halligan, (Co-Founder, HubSpot) to discuss the roles of a founder and first sales person in taking a company from startup to scale up . In this episode
How to Move from Founder Selling to Scaling a Sales Team w/ Jonathan Anguelov (Co-Founder, Aircall)
When you found a startup, you’re the first salesperson. Surprise! But eventually, if things go right, you’ll grow the company to a point where you need to shift from founder selling to scaling a global sales team.
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Jonathan Anguelov, (Co-Founder, Aircall) to discuss this evolving role of founders. In this episode learn more about:
The early sales responsibilities o
The Funnel and Revenue Math w/ Matt Plank (CRO, Rippling)
How do you set the right sales quota for a rep? What about the quarterly spend on account executives, marketing, or SDRs?
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Matt Plank (CRO, Rippling) to discuss how to think through all the different projections on your sales and marketing spends. In this episode learn more about:
The evolution of email as a growth channel
The importance of demand generation and s
Why OpenAI Had to Un-do Sales w/ Aliisa Rosenthal (Head of Sales, OpenAI)
Hired by Sam Altman. Leading a team of two people. And then your product changes the world.
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Aliisa Rosenthal (Head of Sales, OpenAI) to discuss how she leads sales at OpenAI pre and post-AI world. In this episode learn more about:
What to do when your company launches the biggest most successful product known to mankind
The power of giving your team product k
How to Escape the PLG Trap w/ Oliver Jay (Founding CRO, Asana)
Stop looking at playbooks, and start looking at the learnings. Because success is always about context.
And with the right planning, PLG startups can set themselves up the PLG trap – where PLG companies with around 5 billion dollar valuation tend to stall, while others break out to 20 billion dollars or more.
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Oliver Jay, (Founding CRO, Asana) to discuss the inappro
How to Take Your Sales Playbook Upstream w/ Kevin Egan (Head of Global Enterprise Sales, Atlassian)
Once you hit a certain revenue line, going upstream presents an enormous opportunity for your business.
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Kevin Egan (Head of Global Enterprise Sales, Atlassian) to discuss the stories behind the legendary companies he’s helped scale with actionable insight. In this episode learn more about:
The importance of putting the seller in the shoes of the buyer
Difference
Don’t Lead With The Product, Lead To The Product w/ Doug Adamic (CRO, Brex)
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Doug Adamic (CRO at Brex) to discuss how Doug turned Brex into a strategic sales machine, with the power of his sales process playbook. In this episode learn more about:
3 Critical skills for strategic sellers
How to navigate the discovery and qualification of an account
The secret sauce of sales (that makes you stand out from the crowd)
How to grow early career
How to Build a Moat Strategy That Wins w/ Stevie Case (CRO, Vanta)
If you're an entrepreneur that has experienced ankle biters, congrats! You've made it to the next phase. How do you combat it? Stevie shares her story on how she's mitigated ankle biters at Vanta.
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Stevie Case (CRO, Vanta) to discuss how she’s tackled ankle biters and evolved Vanta’s sales motion. In this episode learn more about:
How to outsmart your competitors
How to Create Customer Advocates In Your Go-To-Market w/ Jay LeBoeuf (Head of Sales, Descript)
How did an electrical engineer Lecturer at Stanford become the Head of Business & Corporate Development at Descript? And how is he empowering customers to become champions of product at Descript?
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Jay LeBoeuf (Head Of Business & Corporate Development, Descript) to discuss how Jay has led his team to grow strong customer advocates and create new opportunities in the g
How to Add a Sales Org to Your PLG Company w/ Dino DiMarino (CRO, Snyk)
Layering a sales organization onto your PLG is critical to your success. It’s a totally different motion from sales-led growth. And yes, you need to align your organizations differently to get it right.
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Dino DiMartino (CRO, Snyk) to discuss what product-led growth tactics helped Snyk scale to a billion dollar valued company.
In this episode learn more about:
When p
How to Align Your Sales and Marketing w/ Mike Weir (CRO, G2)
After a decade spent in marketing, Mike Weir now runs the G2 sales teams. And he has his time spent as a CMO to thank for all his CRO success.
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Mike Weir (CRO, G2) to discuss how Mike went from being a marketer to a full-fledged sales leader and what we can all learn from him. In this episode learn more about:
The biggest impact on sales and marketing alignment in
How to Integrate Your First Sales Hire w/ Kyle Parrish (VP of Sales, Figma)
OK. You’re moving from founder selling to your first sales hire. Great work. Now, how exactly do you integrate that new hire into your existing organization?
Host Mark Roberge is joined by Kyle Parrish (VP of Sales, Figma) to discuss being the first sales hire at Figma. Not only that, but Kyle was also the third sales hire at Dropbox. In this episode learn more about:
Building a unique sales cu
Introducing... The Science of Scaling
So look, there’s reams of research that show as an ecosystem, we’re not very good at scaling revenue and sales.
Each week, host Mark Roberge (Sr. Lecturer at Harvard Business School, Stage 2 Capital, fmr CRO at HubSpot) is talking with the folks who’ve scaled the most successful sales teams in tech to give us the answers.
Hear from CROs and sales leaders like Aliisa Rosenthal (OpenAI), Oliver Jay
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