Out and Back
Rory Linkletter and Jacob Thomson, professional marathoners based in Flagstaff, Arizona, share stories from their high-mileage training, race travel, and the ups and downs of competing on the world stage. They discuss running culture, community, and the random moments between workouts, offering listeners a behind-the-scenes look at the marathon lifestyle.
Episodes
#51 - Between Reps: NYC Fields, Edmonton Half, European Champs, Race Schedule Updates
Jacob is in Kelowna visiting John Gay, and Rory is back in Flagstaff holding it down after defending his Canadian Half Marathon championship in Edmonton, on a course that turned out to be too long. They break down the race, Rory's Tour de France style breakaway attack at 8K and the backwards finish line crossing. Then it's on to European Championships: Jakob's return after ten months a
#50: The Call-In Show: Hot Takes, Marathon Relay Drafts, and Desert Island Training Questions
Episode 50 means it's time for another call-in show. Six guests phone in with hot takes, hypotheticals, and questions Jacob and Rory answer completely on the fly. No prep, no notes, just riffing.Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACKJoin our Strava gr
#49 Truett Hanes on Chasing the OTQ and Going All In on a Goal That Scares You
Buy merch: https://outandback.shop/Truett Hanes is in Flagstaff for a three-week training camp, halfway through it when this was recorded, and it's the most structured he's ever approached running. You probably know him from the pull-up world record, the blue jean marathons, or the Leadville 100 buckle, but now he's locked in on one thing: the Olympic Trials qualifier. Rory coaches h
#48 Vincent Ciattei on Winning the US 5000m Title, Training as a Miler at Altitude, and the Dark Sky Squad
Buy merch: https://outandback.shop/Vincent Ciattei comes straight off USA Track and Field Championships in New York where he finished second in the 1500 by five hundredths of a second, sent a message to his college group chat saying he was winning the 5K the next day, and then did exactly that. First Dark Sky teammate on the pod, and one of the more interesting training conversations the show ha
#47 Between Reps: Josh Kerr's Record, USAs, and Training Updates
MERCH: https://outandback.shop/Jacob and Rory are back in Flagstaff after weeks on the road, and Jacob gives an update on his Achilles: no pain in four weeks, mileage climbing back up, and marathon training officially back on. They dig into the Chicago Marathon field announcement, with Sharon Lokedi as the headline story and a stacked American men's field chasing fast times. Then Josh Kerr'
#46 Madey Dickson on Running 2:28 at Boston, Working Full Time as a Nurse, and Chasing Big Goals at Berlin
Madey Dickson is a full-time ICU and ER nurse who runs 100 miles a week, smashed the OTQ by nine minutes at Boston, and won Puma's Project Three, all while working 12-hour shifts. Rory coaches her and they were teammates at BYU, where she was a middle distance runner who stumbled into the marathon almost by accident. They talk training around a nurse's schedule, self belief, the Berlin bui
#45 Between Reps - Summer Heat Training, Josh Kerr's World Record Attempt, and Fall Marathon Field Rumors With Chris Striegel
Jacob, Rory, and Chris Striegel of the Life in Stride Podcast check in for a between reps episode packed with summer training talk and fall marathon buzz. They start with heat training -- what Chris is doing in Kentucky with a newborn, what Jacob survived in Orange Beach, and how to stop panicking about pace when it's 90 degrees and humid. They recap their Fourth of July races in Lexington and Ror
#44 NAZ Elite Coach Jack Mullaney on Building Team Culture, Alex Masai's Breakout, and Marathon Training Philosophy
Jack Mullaney, head coach of NAZ Elite, joins Jacob and Rory at the Run Flagstaff studio for episode 44. Jack walked into one of the most storied professional running programs in the country two and a half years ago as a first-time head coach, inheriting a team mid-transition and figuring out how to build something that felt like his own. He talks about how he navigated that, what his five C's
#43 Steph Bruce on 20 Years as a Pro, Founding Picky Bars, the Stamata Project, and What Comes Next
Steph Bruce joins Jacob and Rory at the new Run Flagstaff studio for episode 43 -- recorded six days after she and Rory both ran the Broken Arrow Sky Race Ascent. They start there, comparing notes on what is genuinely the hardest race either of them has ever done, and why neither of them were as prepared as they thought. From there the conversation opens up into Steph's full arc: the origin of
#42 Listener Q & A - Broken Arrow & MRI Update
NEW MERCH: https://outandback.shop/Jacob and Rory check in on what's been a rocky few weeks for Jacob's Achilles -- paratendon inflammation that's forced him to pull most of his summer road races and lean hard into cross training. Rory previews his Broken Arrow Sky Race Ascent debut, his first pro trail outing, and explains why he picked the climb over a longer technical race. They also run throu
#41 Brady Holmer - High Carb Evidence, Ketone, and How to Actually Sleep Before a Race
Brady Holmer is back for his third appearance, which officially makes him the most tenured guest in Out and Back history. He's a week out from Grandma's Marathon, coming off a stress injury and a training block built around high bike volume, durability workouts, and progression long runs in the Texas heat. The conversation covers a lot of ground: what the research actually says about high
#40 David Roche - The Rules of High Carb Training, How to Train the Gut, Fatigue Resistance, & Training the Pros
David Roche -- ultra marathoner, elite running coach, and what Rory's calling the godfather of the high carb revolution -- joins the Out and Back for episode 40. He started as a running back at Columbia, spent years coaching before ever being competitive himself, and broke the Leadville 100 course record in 2024 (and again in 2025!) largely by stress-testing the same principles he'd been b
#39 Between Reps - Ottawa Marathon Edition
Olympian John Gay, host of the Shakeout Podcast, joins Jacob and Rory one week out from the Ottawa Marathon where John ran 2:14 in his debut and Rory ran 2:09 for third place to close out his spring season. They break down both races, talk conditions, pacing strategy gone wrong, a certain Prime Minister phone call, and a lot more. Also on the docket: the Bolder Boulder DQ situation, Parker Valby&#
#38 Vinny Mauri - Untold Stories from a 2:05 Marathon Debut + Training with the Out & Back Boys in Flagstaff soon?
Blue Collar Middle America Hero Vincent Mauri joins the Out & Back podcast from his woodworking shop after working a full days shift at the local running store. We know he's been on about every podcast out there at this point but we got him to tell some new stories and also discuss his future training and racing plans, hiring an agent, and trying to land a shoe dealgoodr: Upgrade your eyew
#37 Molly Seidel - Marathons to Trails, Western States 100 miler, How to keep running fun
Olympic marathon medalist turned trail runner, Molly Seidel, talks about her path from the roads to the trails. From the pavement to trail races to the high-altitude training that supports her quest for Western States, she shares behind-the-scenes insights you won’t hear anywhere else.Perfect for marathoners curious about trail running, road runners exploring ultra distances, or endurance athletes
#36 - How to taper for a Marathon and How to Recover After | Shakeout Podcast with John Gay
How to taper for a marathon, How to recover after a marathon & much more, on The Shakeout Podcast with John Gay ahead of his marathon debut.Kava Haven: All the Buzz, None of the Booze — get 15% off your first order at http://kavahaven.com/outandbackCode: OUTANDBACK15Check out the Meteo Pace App to be prepared for your next raceJoin our newsletterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Jacob’s YouTube
#35 Between Reps - London Marathon, 2:05 in Ohio, Has the marathon changed forever? Listener Questions!
We try to make sense of the London Marathon, compare it to the Boston Marathon, Talk about the crazy 2:05 in Toledo Ohio and then follow up with some listener questions. Enjoy!Join our newsletterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Jacob’s YouTubeRory’s YouTube Out And Back YouTubeRory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramJacob’s Coaching WebsiteSandyBoy ProductionsMeteo Pa
#34 Between Reps - Boston Marathon Reflection after running 2:06 and 2:09, What a weekend!
Join our newsletterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Jacob’s YouTubeRory’s YouTube Out And Back YouTubeRory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramJacob’s Coaching WebsiteSandyBoy ProductionsMeteo Pace App
#33 Ben Rosario - Running Industry Insider, Professional Coach and Founder of NAZ Elite, Race Director, Running Store Owner
We sat down with Ben Rosario to chat about his life in the running world. From owning running stores, founding a professional running team NAZ elite, driving sponsorship into the team with Hoka, owning and running The Marathon Project, his best coaching memories and more. Ben shares his thoughts and opinions on how to make the sport continue to grow and tells us what his blowing his mind about the
#32 Between Reps - Boston Marathon Edition, Deep Dive into our Boston Builds, Will the World Champs Marathon be Successful? How Hard is it to Make Multiple US Olympic Marathon Teams?
See you all at our Boston Shakeout Run!Saturday April 18th12:30 PM @ Hatch Memorial ShellJoin our newsletterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Jacob’s YouTubeRory’s YouTube Out And Back YouTubeRory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramJacob’s Coaching WebsiteSandyBoy Productions
#31 - Listener Call In Show, We answer your marathon questions and discuss all the hot takes.
This week we have a Listener Call In Show, which is a new take on our mailbag episodes. 6 guest appear to throw us their questions and takes for discussion. Please join our newsletter and check out our YouTube Channels as well. The podcast will also be on YouTube as well as our normal podcast services going forward! Let us know what you think in the comments.Join our newsletterJoin our Strava gro
#30 Ed Eyestone - From being an Olympian to Coaching Them, Elite Marathon Training Philosophy, What's Difference in Today's Era of Running and Training
Be sure to check out our show notes and sign up for our newsletter if you want the details on our Out & Back Boston Marathon Shakeout Run - we'll have some merch there as well!Today we are joined by the legend Ed Eyestone. Coach Eyestone has seen ever era of running from amateurism to super shoes. We talk about his running career, his transition to coaching, how he coaches the marathon, to
#29 Phil Sesemann - London Marathon Training, Linking up with Alex Yee and Emile Cairess, Achieving the Olympic Dream + a NYC Half Marathon Debrief from Jacob and Rory
In this two-part episode, Rory and Jacob recap the NYC United Airlines Half Marathon, breaking down their race performances, key takeaways, and how it impacts their build toward the Boston Marathon.Then, we’re joined by elite British marathoner and Olympian Dr. Phil Sesemann. Phil has already run 2:07 twice in 2025 and is aiming for a top 10 finish at the London Marathon for the 4th time in his ca
#28 Conner Mantz - Lessons from Injury, Boston Build, Training Insights
Conner’s StravaConner Mantz Shokz DocumentaryJoin our newsletterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s Coaching WebsiteSandyBoy ProductionsThank you to The Marathon Project for supporting this weeks episode. Use Code "outandback" for an additional $25 off your registration. Prices go up on April 1st!
#27 Between Reps - Ethan Shuley's Training Deep Dive, Grant Fisher’s Half Debut, USATF Half Marathon Disaster, Boston Marathon Training Updates
Join our newsletter - We'll send your the PDF.Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s WebsiteSandyBoy ProductionsThe Marathon Project Discount Code: outandbackCure Hydration: curehydration.com/OUTANDBACK
#26 Dakotah Popehn - Boston Marathon, Minnesota Distance Elite, Overdistance Long Runs
Check out our links below!In this episode, pro marathoner Dakotah discusses her training strategies, altitude training in Utah, race tactics for Heart Break Hill, and insights into the Boston Marathon course. She shares practical tips for marathon preparation and the importance of mental resilience in marathon training. We also talk about her coach, Chris Lundstrom, his training philosophy, and wh
#25 Jess Tonn McClain - Boston Marathon, Marathon Fueling, Bicarb for Long Races, Keeping Training Fun, Lower Mileage Approach to the Marathon
Today we sit down with Jess Tonn McClain who was the top American at the 2025 Boston Marathon, 8th place at the 2025 World Championships Marathon, 4th place at the 2024 Olympic Trials Marathon. She will be on the start line with Jacob & Rory at the 2026 Boston Marathon as well.We chat about her Boston Marathon specific training, about stepping away from pro running, and then finding her groove
#24 Between Reps - Pacing the AR attempt, Upcoming races, Marathon Myths, Does the treadmill count?
If you enjoy this podcast - please give us a follow and leave a review - It helps the show a ton! Check out our links below.In this episode of the Out and Back Podcast, Jacob and Rory discuss their current training experiences, including Jacob's time in Barcelona where he is pacing for an American record attempt, while Rory races the Mesa Half Marathon. They also share insights from their rece
#23 Brady Holmer - What really matters when it comes to sleep, caffeine, ketones, lactate training
Check out our links below!We welcomed back our first-ever returning guest, Brady Holmer, for a wide-ranging conversation on performance, recovery, and the details that actually move the needle.We cover everything from Diet Coke and caffeine’s role in performance to what truly matters for sleep and recovery—including optimal sleep routines, practical sleep hygiene tips, and simple adjustments athle
#22 - Mailbag, Boston Marathon Fields, Training Updates
Please give the podcast a follow, a 5 star review, and share with a friend with you enjoyed today's episde. Today Rory and Jacob break down the Boston Marathon elite fields, give an update on their training, and answer some loyal listener questions.Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s Website
#21 Eric Floberg - Floberg Runs, Dad Strength, Discipline, Authenticity in Content Creation, Marathon Training in Chicago
Eric's InstagramEric's YoutubeJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s WebsiteSummaryIn this episode, Rory Linkletter and Jacob Thomson sit down with Eric Floberg, a unique figure in the running community known for his engaging YouTube content and inspiring journey in the sport. They discuss Eric's late start in r
#20 Josh Hoey - Indoor 600 World Record, New Training, New Balance Grand Prix, Wanamaker Mile, Bicarb, and Favorite War Movies
In this episode of the Out and Back podcast, host Jacob Thomson and co-host Chris Striegel welcome elite 800-meter runner Josh Hoey. They discuss Josh's recent world record in the 600 meters, his training methods, and the importance of speed endurance. Josh shares insights into his upcoming races, adjustments to his training schedule, and the significance of altitude training in Flagstaff. The
#19 - Canadian Record, Rory runs 59:49 at the Houston Half Marathon
Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s WebsiteIn this episode of the Out and Back podcast, Rory Linkletter shares his experience of breaking the Canadian half marathon record. He discusses the immediate aftermath of the race, including drug testing and media obligations, and reflects on the race dynamics, traini
#18 - Houston Marathon Preview, What's in & What's out for 2026
Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s Website
#17 JP Flavin - Marathon Project Champion, Brooks Hansons Distance Project, in collaboration with John Gay from the Shakeout Podcast
Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s WebsiteWe're kicking off 2026 with a special New Year's Day episode featuring guest host John Gay from the Shakeout Podcast for a conversation with recently crowned The Marathon Project champion JP Flavin, fresh off his win and new lifetime best of 2:09:18. The pros
#16 Between Reps with Chris - Training Updates, most Overrated, Underrated, and Misunderstood things in Running, How much Volume is too much?
Join Jacob, Rory, and Chris as they dive into a good ole banter style episode that feels like a run with friends. From debating the most overrated running trends to sharing outrageous hot takes, this episode is packed with laughs and unexpected insights. Don't miss out on the fun—tune in and let us know if you agree with our spicy opinions! Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJaco
#15 Joe Whelan - 6 marathons in 1 year, 2:09 at CIM
Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s Website
#14 Johannes Motschmann - 140 mile weeks, 2:10 Marathon, Best Training Camps
Please hit the follow and subscribe button and leave us a rating!Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s Website
#13 - CIM & US Champs Preview, Taper Time, Key Workouts in the Build, Fuel Plan
If you enjoyed this episode - please give us a review and follow!Today we discuss the upcoming California International Marathon (CIM), which is also the USATF Marathon Championships. Go through Jacob's build up, race strategy, and expectations for the competition. We delve into tapering, carb loading, and fueling strategies. We also talk about the rest of the competitive field at CIM. The con
#12 Mica Rivera Wood - Building Instagram and Youtube to 100k, Marathon Debut, Training with Ed Eyestone's group
If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a follow and share it with a friend!Mica Rivera Wood discusses balancing being a creator and an elite runner, her decision to transition from track to marathon running. She reflects on her initial fears and the excitement she feels about taking on this new challenge. Mica shares her thoughts on her potential in both track and marathon running, emphasizin
#11 Brady Holmer - Vo2 Max, How to Increase Volume Safely, Heat Training for Performance, Sub 2:20 at CIM.
Please give us a follow at the links below and share with a friend. Today we chat with Brady Holmer. This was a very science heavy episode. We cover Vo2 Max training in marathons, how to increase volume, marathon fueling, heat training for performance, Brady's personal goals for the upcoming CIM race and more.Follow Brady:SubstackTwitterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s
#10 Ran to Japan - Why is Japan so deep in the marathon? Running Youtube, 2:38 to 2:13 Marathon, Olympic Dreams, Building a Community
Please give us a follow, share this episode with a friend, and check out our socials!Join the nearly 100k subs Jake has on YouTube here:Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s WebsiteToday are joined by Jake Bearclough, better know as Ran to Japan. We explore the cultural differences in running training between J
#9 - Biya Simbassa, 2:06 Marathoner, Top American Seed at New York City Marathon
Please do us a massive favor and like, rate, and share the podcast if you enjoy it!Biya is a former teammate and training partner of both Jacob and Rory. We got to chat with Biya about his new coaching set up with Ian Carter and the workouts that lead to his 2:06 Marathon in Valencia last year. We touch on his fueling and race strategies. We chat about the competition in New York City Marathon and
#8 - Reed Fischer - Tinman Elite's new focus, New York City Marathon, World Championships
Give us a follow and join us on social media if you enjoyed today's episode.Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s WebsiteToday on the Out and Back podcast, we sat down with professional marathon runner Reed Fischer. We talked about Reed bouncing off the World Championships to race the New York City Marathon
#7 - Chicago Marathon War Stories, Rory runs 2:06, Way to early 2028 Olympic Trials discussion
Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s Website"Marathons are freaking hard!"
#6 - Chicago Marathon Preview, The Record Chase is ON, Your guide to race day!
Be sure to give us a rating and leave a comment!Join our Strava groupFollow us:Rory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramRory’s Youtube Jacob’s WebsiteWe discuss the upcoming Chicago Marathon, focusing on Rory's training, Canadian record attempts, and the competitive landscape of elite marathon running. They delve into the importance of consistency in training, pr
#5 Mike Arishita - CEO & Founder of Blanks Nutrition, How to fuel for a marathon
Blanks Sports NutritionIn this episode of the Out and Back podcast, Rory and Jacob welcome Michael Arashida, CEO and founder of Blanks Sports Nutrition. They delve into the complexities of sports nutrition, emphasizing the importance of individualized fueling strategies for athletes at all levels. Mike shares insights on the art and science of nutrition, the challenges of running a sports nutritio
#4 Julia Paternain - World Championship Medalist, Phone calls from Paula Radcliffe and the Uruguayan President
In this episode of the Out and Back podcast, hosts Jacob Thomson and Rory Linkletter welcome Julia Paternain, a bronze medalist at the Tokyo World Championships in the marathon. Julia shares her unique journey from a competitive swimming background to becoming a marathon runner, detailing her experiences in college athletics, her training in Flagstaff, and her preparation for the Tokyo marathon. S
#3 - Cow Harbor 10k Preview, Flagstaff Medal in the Marathon, World Championships talk, Hocker DQ, Jakob 5k Revenge
In this episode of the Out and Back podcast, hosts Jacob Thomson and Rory Linkletter discuss the excitement of the fall marathon season, including the upcoming Cow Harbor 10K and the importance of training strategies like fatigue resistance. They recap the recent world championships, highlighting thrilling finishes in both the men's and women's marathons, and celebrate Julia Paternain'
#2 Jon Green - Coaching an Olympic Medalist, Indicator Workouts, Verde Track Club Future
In this episode of Out and Back, hosts Jacob Thomson and Rory Linkletter welcome their first guest, John Green, head coach of the Verde Track Club. The conversation explores John's journey from a successful high school and collegiate runner to a professional coach, discussing his coaching philosophy, the impact of COVID-19 on training, and the importance of athlete engagement. They delve into
#1 - Pilot Episode, Why a Podcast, Marathon is for Everyone
Episode 1:In the inaugural episode of the Out and Back podcast, hosts Rory Linkletter and Jacob Thomson discuss their backgrounds in running, current training regimens, and upcoming marathon goals. They delve into the importance of consistency in training, the challenges of medium long runs, and the debate between taking days off versus running every day. The conversation also covers strategies fo
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