Sound School Podcast
Sound School Podcast explores the backstory behind great audio storytelling. Hosted by Rob Rosenthal for Transom and PRX, it delves into the craft of creating compelling audio narratives. Each episode features interviews with producers and insights into their creative process.
Episodes
Meditating with Platypuses, Penguins, and Wombats
Nocturnal Worlds is certainly a curious podcast. A unique mix of science, nature, meditation, and lush soundscapes from Audiocraft, an Australian production company. Why mix science education and meditation? Olivia O'Flynn, the host and producer of Nocturnal Worlds, lays out the how and why of the show.
Deploy This One Tiny Maneuver to Improve Audio Essays
Cloe Axelson, a senior editor at WBUR, was feeling like the essays she produced that were written by listeners weren't sounding conversational enough -- until she deployed this one simple trick. It's a trick any producer could use to help narrators sound more like themselves.
Witness to an Execution
How powerful can audio storytelling be? So powerful that distraught listeners stand-up, wave their arms, and yell "Turn it off! Turn it off!" That's how good the documentary we're featuring on Sound School is.
Jad and FayFay Talk "Fela Kuti: Fear No Man"
Jad Abumrad and FayFay Odudu, drop some valuable audio storytelling reporting and production insights on the latest episode of Sound School. Jad and FayFay recently earned a Peabody Award for "Fela Kuti: Fear No Man," the podcast about Fela, the Nigerian saxophone player and political activist. Jad and FayFay sat down with Lesedi Mogoathle in February for an online chat sponsored by Radio
Revisiting: Nausea and Forehead Mics - Reporting in Zero Gravity
Almost every reporting trip has its pitfalls. Andrew Leland's story for Radiolab in 2022 had more than most including nausea, flying in the equivalent of zero gravity, and his blindness. On this encore episode of Sound School, Andrew lays out how he navigated it all.
Salman Khan’s March to “More Muslim”
You could describe it as a long walk. Or a climb up a hill. But, it seems like Salman Khan's path to launching a new podcast was more like a slow, persistent march. Hear how Salman practically willed "More Muslim" into existence on the latest Sound School. It's inspiring.
Silence Is Worth Your Time
Back when I worked at radio stations, people joked "Silence is bad juju." We're not supposed to include much, if any, silence in audio stories -- for broadcast or podcast. Noam Hassenfeld went the opposite direction and embraced silence -- lots of it! -- on a recent episode of Unexplainable, the science podcast from Vox. Noam explains how he craftily deployed silence in his storytelling o
Revisiting: A Cow A Day
The first question I had to ask Pejk Malinovsky was "Why the hell did you think that would make for a good radio story?" Of course it was. Pejk followed a cow for eleven hours recording her every move and turned it into a 30-minute documentary. Naturally, Pejk answered saying "A cow a day keeps the boredom away." Find out what he means on this episode of Sound School.
Dialing In the Audio Flux Podcast
Julie Shapiro and John Delore made a pilot for the Audio Flux podcast. Okay, now what? How did they go from pilot in 2024 to podcast in late 2025? On this episode of Sound School, a deep dive comparing the Audio Flux pilot to the first episode of the podcast and the thinking behind Julie and John's production choices.
The Naked Pitch
Short Cuts said no. WNYC said no. Hell Gate said no. Even Transom said no. Finally, after about six months of pitching, Will Coley heard "Yes." Will regales us with his story of how he made it to "yes" with his pitch about public nudity on the latest Sound School.
Revisiting - Don't Write, Tell
Noel King says first things first. Before writing a story, take a friend to a bar and tell them the story. On this archive episode of Sound School, Noel says that's the approach she took back when she reported for Planet Money and it worked like a charm. Her writing was more like telling.
Reporting on Emotions in South Africa
Twenty-one year old reporter Kabir Jagram says young men in South Africa are stoic. Holding back emotions is a survival mechanism in a country wracked with youth unemployment and that can lead to serious mental health issues. So, how then, as a young man himself struggling with expressing feelings, did Kabir manage to produce a captivating radio documentary about emotions?
What If the Main Character Narrates?
We're starting the new year with an antidote to 2025 -- two episodes featuring inspiring early-career producers. On this episode, 28-year-old Anna Van Dine from Vermont who deployed an unusual storytelling maneuver that Rob hasn't heard in years.
Revisiting: Two From the Road in Nashville
Here's your New Year's resolution: Attend a Transom Traveling Workshop. That's right. You know you wanna. The year 2026 is the year to give yourself a treat -- a little radio self-love. For inspiration, here are two stellar stories produced by new and emerging audio producers at a Transom workshop in Nashville back in 2019.
It’s Magic
If you're just beginning in audio storytelling or have some experience under your belt, you could toil alone making and making and making stories hoping to get better. And that might be the exact right thing for you. But, if you'd like a hand up from experienced producers, sign up for a Transom Traveling Workshop. For inspiration, listen to the story Champika Fernando produced at a Worksh
Revisiting: We Need More Words to Describe Audio Stories
When you limit language, you limit thinking. When you limit thinking, you limit creativity. When you limit creativity, audio storytellers wind up making the same thing over and over and over again and that's not good. In this archive episode from 2022, producer Jazmine Green says we need new language to describe our work. And we can start by borrowing from art and architecture.
Seeking Small True Things
Audio reporter Samantha Broun says young people are "full of life, complicated, passionate, confused, and they want to talk and want to be heard." That's why Sam offers them her curiosity and her caring ear for her project "Small True Things." Rob spoke to Sam in October for Sound School on the mainstage at the annual Audio Festival in Ljubljana, Slovenia.
Revisiting: Hang A Picture In Front of the Microphone
Susan Stamberg sang her own song at NPR. Her writing and her voice, you could always tell it was Susan behind the mic. She died at the age of 87 in October. In honor of Susan, we present this archive episode of Sound School where she lays out her best practices for reporting on the visual arts.
When Funny Points to Truth
Neena Pathak produced a very touching story about grieving the death of her father. She says the humor in the story wasn't uncouth. It was how she captured the truth.
Revisiting: Fill Your Notebook with Color Notes
In this archive episode from 2018, legendary NPR reporter and raconteur John Burnett answers a perplexing question "How to make an immigration story visual when no mics are allowed in the courtroom?" Answer: Fill your note book with color notes.
Host Sits Down With a Reporter
"Host sits down with a reporter." That's a good way to describe how Radiolab stories are produced. Same with "two-ways" on NPR. You can hear those approaches everywhere. But, how else can a "host sit down with a reporter?" The Ghost of a Chance podcast from the Minnesota Star Tribune offers a solid example.
Writing Like TV in a Podcast
Writing like it's a television drama complete with instructions for a camera operator. That's an unusual maneuver for a podcast. One I'd never heard before. Neither had Susan Burton until she wrote that way herself in the latest season of The Retrievals, a production from Serial and The New York Times.
Fill Your Pockets With Endings
NPR's Robert Smith says when he's writing and gets to the end of a story he has empty pockets. He's used all the good stuff and left nothing for the end. To combat that problem, Robert studied endings from some of his favorite reporters and put together a list of categories that broadly describe memorable story endings.
Sound Design - Don't Say Rabbit, See Rabbit
"Don't say rabbit, see rabbit." Write it on a sticky note and post it where you can see it at all times. It's a mantra that will save you from cheesy sound design.
Revisiting: Interviewing Shy People
A constant piece of advice for producers is "Find a good talker." But what about shy people? Given their reticence, they may not be great talkers but they may have a good story to tell. The question is "How do you help shy people open up?" Erika Lantz and her sister Elin Lantz-Lesser of The Turning podcast have answers. Good ones.
Asking Dad Dicey Questions
Zach Mack really put it to his father. For "Alternate Realities," a series from NPR's "Embedded" podcast, Zach asked his dad pointed questions about the conspiracy theories he believes in that are driving a wedge into the family. On this episode of Sound School, Zach talks to Sally Herships of Radio Boot Camp about the challenges of asking dicey questions.
Revisiting - Think of a Radio Station (or Podcast) as a Musical Instrument
"I think of radio stations as musical instruments." That's what Steve Junker, the managing editor at WCAI said to Rob over a couple of drinks one night. Soon after, Rob put Steve in front of a mic and asked him "What the heck are you talking about??"
Writing Makes All the Difference - Beautifully Braiding Scenes, Stand-Ups, and Narration
It's time for Leila Fadel at NPR to receive another award for her reporting. Last December, her stories from Syria after the fall of Assad were essential listening. And, as Rob notes in this episode of Sound School, her writing was top-notch.
Writing Makes All the Difference: The Episode Handshake
There's a reason why serialized podcast episodes often start with "Last time on (insert name of podcast)" followed by a montage of quotes. It works. It's an effective way to help bring a listener back into a story. But it's used *far* too often. Surely, there's a better way, right? Rob spotlights the way writer and reporter Basia Cummings avoided the trope in "Pig Iron."
Revisiting - A Trip to the Dentist
A dear friend of Transom and all creative audio producers passed way last month -- Larry Massett. This episode of Sound School joins the chorus of voices on Transom marking Larry's passing. Rob presents "A Trip to the Dentist," a legendary story Larry made in 1977 for NPR. Easily one of the most hallucinogenic stories aired on the network. You'll want your headphones on for this episode.
Writing Makes All the Difference, Part 1
I don't care how much good tape you have. I don't care if the scoring and mixing are superlative. I don't care if the narrator is a solid storyteller. If a story lacks strong writing, the story will fall flat. Great writing is essential. On this episode of Sound School, the brilliant writing in the podcast Noble.
Revisiting: My Kingdom for Some Structure
You've got all the good tape you need. Now what? How do you structure the story? Bradley Campbell has a few suggestions. He sketched them -- on cocktail napkins!
Champions of Old Radio
Take a short walk into deep radio history. Julia Barton and Sarah Montague join Rob to talk about two audio storytelling classics from the 1930s: "Seems Like Radio Is Here to Stay," an homage to radio by Norman Corwin, and the anti-fascist play "The Fall of the City," by Archibald MacLiesh. Old school radio at its best!
Beware the Chicken Bomb
The best way -- sometimes the *only* way -- to describe an element in a story that is disruptive and distracting for listeners is this: chicken bomb. This year, 2025, is the 20th anniversary of "chicken bomb" entering the lexicon of audio storytelling. What exactly is it? With help from Ira Glass, we'll explain.
Amen, Chenjerai (Bonus Episode)
In this bonus episode, Rob takes his conversation with Chenjerai Kumanyika one step further. He digs in a bit more to the big question from the last episode: Who is the "you" telling this story now?"
Amen, Chenjerai
Chenjerai Kumanyika delivered the goods. Rob interviewed Chenjerai on stage at the recent On Air Fest where Chenjraie was passionate, animated, and electric as he talked about a question he sees as essential for anyone in audio storytelling to consider. We're sure you'll be as transfixed as the audience.
Revisiting: The Longest Shortest Time
Just recently, Hillary Frank relaunched her popular podcast The Longest Shortest Time. This archive episode takes us back to Hillary's early days, when she was just finding her way in podcasting -- as we all were.
The Layered Approach - Interviewing for Scenes
You want scenes in your story. But, reporting in the field isn't an option. What then? Simon Adler, a senior producer at Radiolab has an answer: interview for scenes using "the layered approach."
The Backstory to "Our Ancestors Were Messy"
Nichole Hill pitched her show idea again and again. And, again and again, podcast companies said "no." But, that didn't stop Nichole. She said "I'm doing it myself!" Our Ancestors Were Messy, a podcast featuring hidden stories from the archives of historic, Black newspapers, launches February 5th. Sound School has the backstory to how Nichole dialed in the format for the show and why she
All Hands On Deck - NPR and the Nixon White House
Just over 50 years ago, in 1974, NPR took to the airwaves for a 25-hour-broadcast that Rob thinks may be one of the most tedious recordings he's ever heard and one that was also an incredible broadcast service. What is it? You'll have to listen. Trust us. It's worth it.
Revisiting: First, Tell Them an Anecdote
Rob's interview with Misha Euceph is one of his favorites. As he says, she's very clear, engaging, and insightful about the craft of audio storytelling. On this archive episode of the show from 2019, they discuss why Misha believed it was important to start each episode of her podcast "Tell Them, I Am" with a personal anecdote.
Dissection - Daniel Alarcón's Writing Maneuvers
Let's state the obvious: Daniel Alarcón is a gifted writer. It's evident from the writing in "The Good Whale," the latest series from Serial that Daniel wrote and hosted. Rob put his writing under the microscope and heard a lot of satisfying maneuvers -- and a couple that weren't so satisfying.
Fingers Crossed, Twice
Nothing seems guaranteed these days for creative audio makers. "Short Cuts" was recently cancelled and "Pretendians" is seeking funding for a second season, two shows on this episode of Sound School that are high on Rob's must-listen list because they elevate the craft and deliver essential storytelling.
Please Keep WCAI Right Where It Is
WCAI, the public radio station for Cape Cod, has been told it needs to move -- to leave the home it broadcasts from. An actual home. A former captain's house. News that the house had been sold startled the station staff and the community. In this episode, Rob laments what would be a strike against the station's deep commitment to local service.
Keep the Universal in Mind for Local Stories
The story from Slovenia on this episode of Sound School is hyper-local -- so local, you might not catch all the cultural references. But, the reporter, Ajda Kus, says that's okay. The key to telling a great local story is to give weight to universal themes so that all listeners can still relate to the piece.
Revisiting: A Stranger With a Microphone
When should a reporter turn around a leave? At what point do should they say "I won't report on these people. They need their space, not a stranger with a microphone." Jay Nathan faced that exact situation some years ago reporting on a man who was dying of cancer and the friend taking care of him. But, instead of turning around and leaving, Jay stayed. Jay is still haunted by the decision
Revisiting: Who Are You As a Storyteller?
Robert Krulwich, formerly of Radiolab, once said "how you write is basically who you are." It's a profound statement, a kind-of koan. It requires a little bit of thought. Krulwich can be that way. But, it leads to an essential question for anyone who writes: "Who are you as a storyteller?"
Retreat! And Make Stories with Friends
"To play and to fail and to get to know each other and to celebrate the craft of making audio... What's better than that," Jasmin Bauomy asks. When inspiration struck, Jasmin put together a four-day audio retreat for about a dozen producers from Berlin. She called the retreat "The Ecco" and it yielded some fantastic storytelling.
We Do It For the Ears, Right?
We tell stories in sound for many, many reasons. For our listener's hearts and minds. For community. For self-expression. For the democracy. For listener's ears. Yes. Their ears. On this episode of The Sound School Podcast, Rob relishes the ear catching qualities of work from Delia Derbyshire (BBC), Michel Martin (NPR), and the Making Gay History podcast.
To Swear or Not to Swear in Narration
Say you're listening to a great narrative podcast. The host has really grabbed your attention and you're pulled in. Then, out of nowhere, the narrator swears. Not once. Not twice. But three times. Including f-bombs. Is that a turn off for listeners? Should narrators swear? Dan Taberski defends his swears in his latest podcast.
Gaining Access While Preserving Anonymity in Medical Settings
Patient privacy in medical settings is essential. So, how does a reporter convince a facility to let them in with a microphone and assure anonymity of the patient? Selena Simmons-Duffin has answers. She is a health policy reporter at NPR who recently reported inside a primary care facility that provides standard medical care as well as abortions.
Revisiting: Robot Babies and Radio Luck
There are four kinds of luck. Unlucky. No luck. Lucky. And radio luck. On this archive episode of Sound School, Hillary Frank digs into the *incredible* radio luck she encountered reporting a story about teens and their "robot babies."
Revisiting: Magical Realism in Radio
David Weinberg pulls off a real radio feat mixing fantasy and reality in his documentary called "Grace of the Sea." In this archive episode, David explores the value of "magical realism" in audio storytelling.
An Audio Field Trip
Rob plays "Story DJ" on this episode "spinning" excerpts from several excellent stories you'll definitely want to hear. It's an audio field trip taking you around the world: Macon, Georgia, Wales, Madagascar, Kenya, and a closet at an undisclosed IKEA. Bring your best headphones for this one.
Structure Interviews Like a Good Story
Don't leave an interview entirely to chance. Structure it like a good story. On this episode, Rob dissects an interview on The Daily revealing its effective inner story structure.
Tips to Elevate Your Reporting and Storytelling from Ira Glass
Ira Glass of This American Life is a master audio storyteller. He's equally skillful at laying out the mechanics of creative storytelling and reporting, too. Rob unearthed a presentation Ira made back in 2001 at a radio conference that is signature Ira and brimming with incredibly helpful tips on writing, structure, reporting, and scoring. A good listen for audio
Safety First: Recording with Actors for an LGBTQ Story in Uganda
It's illegal to be queer in Uganda and incredibly unsafe. Queer people risk violence, eviction, harassment, and arrest. How then does a producer protect the identity of interviewees, especially when someone's voice might be recognized. British freelance producer Mary Goodhart solved this problem and many other safety issues while working on an LGBTQ story for the BBC World Service Podcast
Shocking, Heartbreaking, Transformative…and Ethical?
There's a moment in this episode when Rob is gasping and holding his hand to his chest. Why was he so astonished? Listen to his conversation with Jess Shane as they dissect the ethics of her Radiotopia documentary "Shocking, Heartbreaking, Transformative."
Introducing Sound Judgment
Deadlines, production meetings, staff management, show scheduling... in any given day, there's rarely time to pause and consider the craft of audio storytelling. Of course, PRX and Transom hope Sound School provides an easy opportunity to do that. On this episode, we'd like to introduce you to another podcast with the same mission: Sound Judgment hosted by Elaine Appleton Grant and featur
Thanks, NPR. That Was Satisfying.
Have NPR's news magazines occasionally been sounding more radiophonic lately? Rob thinks so. He's collected a handful of satisfying moments of writing, production, and reporting from several reporters: Daniel Estrin, Avery Keatley, Andrew Limbong, Barbara Moran, Ari Shapiro, and Andrea Shea.
The Um, A Deep Dive
"Ums." You're supposed to cut them out, right? But what if the "um" means something? Talia Augustidis noticed her boyfriend "ummed" when he was lying and she thought "radio story." Talia takes a deep dive into the importance of not cutting out all the "ums" as well as the backstory to her piece for the BBC's Short Cuts called "What's In An Um?"
Revisiting: Should I or Shouldn’t I — Recording in Stereo
One of the top three questions Rob often hears when he's teaching is, "Should I record in stereo?" Rob says mono is usually the way to go. But on this archive episode of Sound School, former NPR engineer Flawn Williams evangelizes about the value of stereo recordings, and he brought along several sound-rich examples.
Small, Random, and Meaningful
In the tsunami of serialized documentary making over the last decade, what happened to the short story? Where are the one-off curious and creative sound portraits or essays or found sound or audio postcards or.... ? Last year Transom commissioned a dozen short stories as part of "Small, Random, and Meaningful." Rob features his three favorites.
For the Love of Radio, Get Out of the Studio!
In honor of World Radio Day this week, The Sound School Podcast is celebrating with a story that exemplifies the power of radio to evoke striking images — a story reported from a remote hillside in Slovenia.
A Triple Whammy
Katz Laszlo says writing and tracking for herself is complicated enough. But it's an even greater challenge writing for and tracking with the two co-hosts of The Europeans podcast. Katz lays out how she and the hosts wrangle it all on the latest Sound School.
Tracking Partners
It's a brave thing to share the outtakes from a tracking session. All the blemishes are right there. But, Martine Powers and Rennie Svirnovsky from audio team at The Washington Post have graciously done just that. Hearing how they work as tracking partners is a real gift for anyone who wants to perform better in the mic booth.
Revisiting: Goldstein on Writing, Fonts, and The Goldstein
While there were many great podcasts released in 2023, no one will remember the year as a good one for the people who make podcasts. There were far too many layoffs and cancellations including a show dear to our radio hearts at Transom, Heavyweight, hosted by Jonathan Goldstein. In honor of the show and Jonathan's remarkable writing, Rob revisits his chat with Jonathan where they talked a
Which Is the Better Open?
Rob takes himself to task on this episode. He felt the beginning of the last episode of Sound School was so boring, he rewrote it. Compare the old version with the new version be sure to tell us at Transom which is the better open.
Reporting Out at the Edge
Theo Greenly reports for a public radio station in the far-flung Aleutian Islands in Alaska. When he started, about two and a half years ago, he thought he'd hit the ground running reporting in-depth, documentary-style pieces. Instead, he learned he really needed to get his bearings first and just report the news. His stories about how to report -- and navigate all the transportation chal
Mixing Fiction with Non-Fiction
Fiction should stay in its corner, non-fiction in its corner. Or so Rob thought until he heard producer Pippa Johnstone seamlessly and effectively mix the two in her memorable podcast "Expectant," where Pippa explores a remarkably uncomfortable question: In a time of climate change, is it okay to have children?
Interview Strangers on the Street, Make a Podcast
Catherine Carr has turned vox into artful conversation with a deceptively simple question: Where are you going? That's also the name of the podcast she makes (a recent British Podcast Award winner) where she interviews strangers about where they're going and so much more.
Revisiting: Remembering Studs
Studs Terkel is considered by many to be a patron saint of documentary radio journalism. It's been 15 years since his death. On this archive episode of Sound School from 2012, Rob talks to Syd Lewis who worked with Studs for 25 years. The show also includes a lengthy excerpt from "Working With Studs," a Transom Radio Special produced by Syd, Jay Allison, and Viki Merrick.
Pleasing to the Ear
Rob acts as a story DJ on this episode, featuring excerpts from stories he’s recently found pleasing to the ear. His "playlist" includes work from "More Perfect," the BBC Radio 4 podcast "Seriously," "The Shortwave Radio Archive," and "That Intimate Feeling." Drop a needle on the episode and press play.
Salt at 50!
What do radio producers Phoebe Judge (Criminal), Zoe Chase (This American Life), Greg Warner (Rough Translation), Matt Kielty (Radiolab), Emily Kwong (NPR) and dozens if not hundreds of others you've heard on your favorite podcasts and radio shows have in common? Salt. They're all graduates of the Salt Institute for Documentary Studies in Portland, Maine. Salt turns fifty this year! Isaac
Revisiting: Dead Mom Talking
This year's Third Coast Festival winners and finalists produced incredible work. It got us thinking about winners from previous years. So, we dug up this fantastic interview with Rachel Matlow who won a "Best New Producer" award in 2016 for their thoughtful and creative story "Dead Mom Talking."
So You STILL Want to Start a Podcast, Eh?
It's unusual for a producer to share a work in progress. It's rarer still to do it twice. Nina Porzucki updates Rob on the progress of Bird Talk, her comedy podcast in-the-making and the steps it took to make her second pilot funnier and more engaging.
Going Behind the Mic On Climate Change Reporting
Rebecca Hersher, a climate science reporter at NPR, offers excellent tips on reporting on climate change. But, at the heart of Rob's interview with her is something more philosophical: the role of hope in climate change reporting.
Revisiting: Sound Art Meets Poetry Meets Cicadas
Summer means cicadas. Those crackly, buzzy bugs that drone and drone in the heat like a live electrical wire spewing sparks. Mair Bosworth and Fiona Benson took that sound and crafted "Magicicada," a stunning "sound poem," as they called it, marrying Mair's stellar recordings and sound design and Fiona's nuanced poetry.
Next-level Scoring
Get your headphones on for this episode! Rob dives into three remarkable examples of scoring. He features examples from the Serial/NYT series "The Retrievals," scored by Phoebe Wang, "My Mother Made Me" from PRX's Radiotopia Presents scored by Ian Coss, and The Atlantic's "Holy Week," scored by David Herman.
Lean In and Listen Like It’s Music
Rob's a fan of the "radio art" style of audio storytelling from Europe but often, after listening, he finds himself scratching his head. "What was that about?!" He wonders if the problem isn't the storytelling but his American ears and the way he listens. Alan Hall, of Falling Tree, the English production company, helps him listen in a new way.
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