The Contemplative Pastor
This podcast is designed for pastors who desire a less hurried and overwhelmed form of leadership, seeking to recover the ancient path of following Jesus in ministry. It features conversations with spiritual guides and sages on topics of spiritual and pastoral formation. Each episode includes guided prayers and reflections to help listeners engage with the wisdom shared. The aim is to nurture a new yet ancient kind of pastor—more unhurried, prayerful, and peaceful—and to see the local church flourish in its formational role.
Episodes
The Pain You Don’t Want to Name (Featuring Jeff Hyun)
What does it mean to be a person who is attended to?In this episode, join Bryan Rouanzoin and Jeff Hyun for a conversation about the potential for pain to become the place of our deepest formation. Jeff shares the story of being left by his mom when he was five years old and how their long-awaited reunion led to a “beautiful unraveling” in his adulthood, one that invited him to receive care after
Getting Free from the Weight of Secrets (Featuring Gavin Bennett)
What if confession could be a place of healing, not just pardon?In this episode, join Bryan Rouanzoin and Gavin Bennett for a conversation about the practice of confession—why we're afraid to embrace it, and the belonging that waits for us when we do. Gavin shares how his years-long practice of confession has freed him from the burden of image management and given the people closest to him the
Pastoring from the Ground, Not the Mountaintop (Featuring Beau Hughes)
What formation might we experience in choosing remaining over constant reinvention?In this episode, join Jay Kim and Beau Hughes for a conversation about choosing to keep showing up—to a church, to a practice, and to the pain of the people in our care. As his 19 years at The Village Church Denton comes to a close, Beau reflects on the ways in which his lifelong experience with depression has invit
Paying Close Attention to Your Season (Featuring Tara Beth Leach)
What would it look like to build rhythms that respond to lives that are always changing?In this episode, join Bryan Rouanzoin and Tara Beth Leach for a conversation about shepherding through the ups and downs of real life—our own and the lives of the people in our care. Tara Beth recalls how navigating the emotional requirements of pastoral ministry while caring for her aging parents created a des
What Grows When We Stay (Featuring Jess Gracewski)
What might happen if we decided to stay—in a place, in a community, in a calling?In this episode, join Bryan Rouanzoin and Jess Gracewski for a conversation about what we might gain—and risk—by choosing to commit to a community and a place. Jess describes how she’s building spaces of belonging in one of the most transient cities on earth and choosing to steward people with intention for as long or
Discerning Weariness from Woundedness (Featuring Glenn Packiam)
What happens when we make peace with the reality that there are no ideal conditions in which to pastor?In this episode, join Jay Kim and Glenn Packiam for a conversation on finding “your little patch of the world” to be the pastor God has called you to be. Glenn traces the through line of his “misfit” ministry career and the crisis that led him into Eugene Peterson's mentorship, where he first
When the Yoke Doesn’t Feel Easy Anymore (Featuring Bill Dogterom)
What if our weariness as pastors isn’t a sign of failure, but rather a sign that we’re measuring success by the wrong metric?In this episode, Bryan Rouanzoin and Bill Dogterom seek to reconcile Jesus’ promise of an “easy yoke” with the pervasive weariness so many pastors experience today. Bill shares how his own weariness sparked a life-changing shift from a church-growth mindset to a formation mi
Letting God Burn Away the Fantasy Self (Featuring Todd Pickett)
What if the most vital work of spiritual formation isn’t first in your church, but in the hidden story you’re already living with God? In this episode, join Bryan Rouanzoin and Todd Pickett for a conversation on what it means to truly be a contemplative, and the fruit of a life lived this way. Drawing from Todd’s journey through the university and into the local church, they explore how literature
Pastoring in the Presence, Not Absence, of God (Featuring Alan Fadling)
How can we pastor without sacrificing our own souls on the altar of hurry and anxiety?In this episode, join Jay Kim and Alan Fadling for a wide-ranging conversation on the inner pace of pastoral ministry. Drawing from over four decades in ministry, Alan explores what it means to practice the presence — not the absence — of God, to tend conditions rather than just drive results, and to embrace the
The Kind of Pastor the Kingdom Flows Through (Featuring AJ Sherrill)
What if your primary pastoral work isn’t building the Kingdom, but becoming the kind of person the Kingdom can flow through?In this episode, join Jay Kim and AJ Sherrill for a conversation about contemplative pastoring in an age of efficiency and comparison. In this conversation, Jay and AJ explore the costly link between efficiency and love, why we often settle for relief instead of true renewal,
A Conversation Between John Ortberg and John Mark Comer (Part 2)
How can we suffer personally and alongside others without losing our joy? In this episode, join John Mark Comer and John Ortberg for the second part of their conversation exploring the possibilities and pitfalls in the pastoral vocation. In these final movements of the interview, John shares honestly about healing from wounding, what we can do when we are joy-challenged and what will matter in the
A Conversation Between John Ortberg and John Mark Comer (Part 1)
What is my shadow mission?In this episode, join John Mark Comer and John Ortberg as they explore the possibilities and pitfalls in the pastoral vocation. They discuss the dangers of over-relying on giftedness, the importance of detaching from outcomes, and the power of identifying what John refers to as a "shadow mission"— what your life could be if it veers just a few degrees off course.
Becoming A Creative Pastor (Featuring Tyler Staton)
How is this era in church history inviting us into creative exploration? In this episode, Tyler Staton invites us to recover a renewed sense of pastoral imagination. Drawing from the creation account in Genesis, he reflects on God as a creator and artist, considering what it means for pastors to participate in God's enduring work to cultivate life, beauty, and renewal. This teaching calls us t
The Hidden Life (Featuring Gemma Ryan)
Is there a gap between our public and private life?In this episode, Gemma Ryan invites us to consider the hidden life beneath our ministry and leadership. Through the practices of solitude, secrecy, and confession, she explores the narrowing gap between who we are in public and who we are when no one is watching. With honesty and tenderness, she shares deeper questions about our work and activitie
The Emotionally Healthy Leader: Part 2 (Featuring Drew Hyun and John Mark Comer)
Where does deep transformation in the church begin?In this episode, Drew Hyun is joined by John Mark Comer to wade into the everyday pastor’s wrestle with the slow, often hidden work of formation in leadership. Together, they reflect on issues of patience and ego, community, vulnerability, burnout, and the tension between fostering a vision for renewal and staying faithful within the constraints o
The Emotionally Healthy Leader: Part 1 (Featuring Drew Hyun)
What if the burdens we often feel in pastoral work come from doing ministry for God, without God? In this episode, Drew Hyun invites pastors to honestly consider a painful tension that many leaders experience: the possibility of ministering for God while slowly losing their connection with Him. Drawing from his own story and the experiences of the early church, he explores the subtle ways ministr
A New, Yet Ancient Pastoral Imagination (Featuring John Mark Comer)
If spiritual formation were the primary goal of your church, what might need to change?In this episode, John Mark Comer invites us to consider whether the way we have organized church life is actually forming people into maturity in Christ, and the kinds of convictions that support a more intentional pathway of life-change. This is an invitation to a new, yet ancient pastoral imagination rooted in
Caring For Your Soul: Part 2 (Featuring Ken Shigematsu and John Mark Comer)
How can you reorder your life for the sake of others? In this episode, Ken Shigematsu is joined by John Mark Comer to discuss how to turn the vision of the way of Jesus into a lived way of life. Together, they reflect on the challenges of reshaping our lives, the quiet resistance we often experience, and the invitation to move beyond good intentions into the often hidden work of transformation ove
Caring For Your Soul: Part 1 (Featuring Ken Shigematsu)
What fruit is being produced by your devotion to God? In this episode, Ken Shigematsu invites us to reflect on who we are becoming in the rhythm of our lives and leadership. He shares the simplicity of his own Rule of Life and how it has nurtured a friendship with Jesus that is not only formative but also enjoyable. Ken’s teaching encourages us to slow down, pay attention, and honestly discern wha
Rediscovering the Catechumenate: Part 2 (Q&A with Dr. Gerald Sittser and John Mark Comer)
What could happen if we considered formation, not just information, in the discipleship process of our people?In this episode, Dr. Gerald Sittser is joined by John Mark Comer to engage with questions from pastors and leaders about the depth and challenge of recovering a more robust, formational faith. They reflect on the catechumenate as a model of training beyond mere instruction, the risks of a
Rediscovering the Catechumenate: Part 1 (Featuring Dr. Gerald Sittser)
How can our communities learn to follow Jesus in a way that is within, but not defined by, our surrounding culture?In this episode, Dr. Gerald Sittser draws from the history of the early church to explore how the Jesus movement grew — slowly, relationally, and often in the margins. He reflects on the role of the catechumenate and the long, patient work of communities that learned how to follow Jes
Resistance and Reimagination (Featuring Jay Kim and John Mark Comer)
How can the digital age challenge and reshape our understanding of church?In this episode, Jay Kim addresses the unique pressures influencing life and ministry in our digital landscape, followed by a Q&A period alongside John Mark Comer. This discussion invites us to envision a thoughtful reimagining of our churches, encouraging us to resist the allure of the easy, immediate, and consumable, w
Relational Spirituality: Part 2 (Q&A with Dr. Todd Hall and John Mark Comer)
Where can you go as a pastor to find the safe relationships you need to flourish? In this episode, Dr. Todd Hall is joined by John Mark Comer to engage with questions from pastors about the tensions of leading relationally. They explore questions such as: How can we practice vulnerability while maintaining appropriate boundaries? How do we foster more relational safety within our staff teams? And
Relational Spirituality: Part 1 (Featuring Dr. Todd Hall)
In what ways might your community be more spiritually impacted by their relational history than they realize?In this episode, join Dr. Todd Hall, Bethany Allen, and Bryan Rouanzoin for part one of a conversation about how our relational history impacts our spiritual lives and the potential for the family of God to restore our relationships with one another and with God.This teaching was held at th
A Rule of Life (Featuring Gemma Ryan)
How is the ancient practice of a Rule of Life desperately needed in the modern church?In this episode, join Gemma Ryan, Bethany Allen, and Bryan Rouanzoin as they explore how quiet, everyday rhythms can root you in Christ and anchor you through the demands of ministry.This teaching and panel conversation was held at the Practicing the Way Pastor Conference in Portland, Oregon, in 2024. To find mor
The Narrow Path of Formation (Featuring Rich Villodas)
What could change for you if you returned to the first principles of the Gospel? In this episode, join Rich Villodas, Bethany Allen, and Bryan Rouanzoin as they discuss leading from the inside out, and the kind of ministry that can be sustained not by activity or gifting, but only by an identity secured in Christ. This teaching was delivered by Rich Villodas at the Practicing the Way Pastor Confe
Church Around the Table
What if the table was the primary gathering place for the family of God?In this episode, join John Mark Comer, Daena Dooley, and Chris and Merryl Weinand for a highly practical conversation about what it looks like to move the table from the periphery to the centre of our lives and churches.This conversation took place at the Practicing the Way Pastor Conference in Portland, Oregon, in the fall of
A Conversation Between Father Ronald Rolheiser and John Mark Comer
What are the stages of discipleship that we must consider to help cultivate a lifetime of discipleship to Jesus? In this episode, join John Mark Comer and Father Rolheiser as they explore lessons he’s learned after spending a half-century in the priesthood, what cultivating a mature life looks like while reckoning with age and illness, and the three stages of discipleship. This conversation took p
A Theology of Pastoral Ministry (Featuring John Mark Comer)
What might change if you saw pastoral ministry at its core not as leadership, but as suffering love?In this episode, join John Mark Comer, Bethany Allen, and Bryan Rouanzoin as they honestly consider the risks and wounds of pastoring while holding up the goal of a faithful and fruitful lifetime of following Jesus that leads others to the same.This teaching was delivered by John Mark Comer at a gat
Spiritual Formation in the Life of the Leader (Featuring John Ortberg)
Is your life as a pastor arranged in such a way that you are experiencing deep joy, contentment, and freedom in your life with God?In this episode, join John Ortberg, Bethany Allen, and Bryan Rouanzoin as they explore the vision for building an inner life that can allow you and your ministry to flourish, even amid the unique demands and temptations of pastoring today.This teaching was delivered by
Spiritual Formation in the Future of the Church (Featuring John Mark Comer)
What thoughtful shifts can we make in our churches to cultivate a deeper understanding and greater potential for discipleship?In this first episode of The Contemplative Pastor, join John Mark Comer, Bethany Allen, and Bryan Rouanzoin as they explore how spiritual formation has reached its current moment in the Western church and consider the invitation for what might come next.This teaching was de
Welcome to The Contemplative Pastor
The Contemplative Pastor is a podcast for the pastor who longs to embody a less hurried, less overwhelmed, less CEO-like form of leadership, and to recover the ancient path of pastoring in the way of Jesus.Each episode features insightful teachings from guides and sages on key topics within spiritual formation, along with practical conversations on those teachings between Bryan Rouanzoin and Betha
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