The Pact
The Pact is a true-crime investigative series about the 2014 disappearance of Upper Michigan man Chris Regan. The two-year investigation led authorities into a world of sex, drugs, pig farming, alleged cannibalism, and serial murder, tied to a wedding-day pact between Kelly and Jason Cochran. Investigative reporter Josh Hallmark examines thousands of case files and hours of interviews with Kelly to untangle her contradictory stories and identify possible additional victims. It is a Studio BOTH/AND production.
Episodes
The Pact | Trailer
It started with the 2014 disappearance of an Upper Michigan man named Chris Regan. The two-year investigation into his disappearance would take authorities on a strange journey into a world of sex, drugs, pig farming, alleged cannibalism, and serial murder; all stemming from a wedding day pact between Kelly and Jason Cochran, that resulted in the murder of at least two men. Investigative reporter,
1. The Pact
On the night of Kelly Cochran's wedding, her husband Jason forced her to agree to a pact: That if she ever cheated on him, she'd have to kill the man she cheated with. That pact would result in the deaths of at least 9 people.This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandMusic: Chris Zabriski
2. Hunters & Gatherers
Phone records, discrepancies in Kelly Cochran's statements, search warrants, and several interviews lead to some shocking revelations surrounding Chris Regan's disappearance. Plus, criminal psychologist, Joni Johnston, discusses female psychopaths. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobotha
3. Baby Bird
Investigators and psychologists try to get to the bottom of which Cochran was abusing the other. Chief Frizzo works with the FBI and an unlikely informant to coerce Kelly into confessing. And Kelly hits the road, again. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited
4. Two Women
Kelly discusses a third murder. Josh takes a look at the two women at the center of this case, and how their lives were affected and intertwined by it. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Music by William Hellfire, Whithe,
5. Quack Quack, Oink Oink
The trial of Kelly Cochran reveals shocking information about Kelly and Jason, discerns Kelly's truth from lies, and begins painting a clear picture of the Cochrans' killing spree. Plus, we take a closer look at Jason's manuscript. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, resear
6. Mississippi Street
The investigation into Jason and Kelly Cochran's other crimes begins with a look into their time in Indiana; revealing some strange and shocking connections. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Music by William Hellfire, Wh
7. Laura
She may be the only living person to truly know Kelly Cochran. Laura Frizzo talks the Cochrans, David Thayer, the glass ceiling, and how this case has impacted her life. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Music by William
8. Rotten Love
If Laura Frizzo knows Kelly best, then Walt Ammerman probably knew Jason best. We get to know Jason through an interview with friend and eventual informant, Walt. Then we explore Kelly's Facebook and its odd parallels to her crimes, and an unsolved Indiana homicide and its odd parallels to Chris Regan's murder. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-fre
9. Inside
Josh goes inside the investigation into Kelly Cochran, revealing new information, new links, and a possible timeline. And the investigation itself raises some important questions about what authorities do and don't know. Next episode: 24 May 2023This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandW
10. The Park
The Kelly Cochran case files arrive, opening a Pandora's Box of depravity. And during an encounter following Jason's death, Kelly shows Hobart police just how calculating and unhinged she truly is. Next episode: 31 May 2023This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandResearch assistance by B
11. Camping
Kelly's brother, Colton, shares some revealing and shocking information with investigators. Kelly discusses her first three murders. And patterns begin to emerge.Next Episode: 14 June 2023 This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandResearch assistance by Becca Cline. Music by William Hellf
12. Playing Games
Kelly's lists of 32 alleged victims lead investigators to find some interesting evidence in Illinois and Minnesota. And Josh begins making sense of Kelly's lists (and lies). Next Episode: 21 June 2023This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandResearch assistance by Becca Cline and Michelle
13. The Lists
Josh deep-dives the lists of Kelly's and Jason's alleged 32 victims, with some shocking revelations and a whole lot of WTF moments.Next Episode: 28 June 2023This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, and produced by Josh HallmarkResearch assistance by Becca Cline and M
14. Sex, Lies, and Manipulation
An exploration into Kelly Cochran's practice of avoidance, her list of trophies, and consistencies in her wildly varying stories, leads to some pretty solid conclusions about Kelly and Jason. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallm
15. MEN
An examination of the disparities surrounding the portrayals of men and women in crime, and how Kelly Cochran exploited them. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Research assistance by Becca Cline. Resources include: The Wa
16. Deep River
A look at how sexual abuse may have contributed to Kelly Cochran's life and crimes; and how it may play a role in deciphering her many stories.This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Research assistance by Becca Cline. Resource
17. A Boreal Feast
An examination of the strange relationship and power dynamics between Kelly Cochran and Detective Ogden, reveals new patterns in Kelly's stories and behaviors. Plus, a cumulative overview of what we've learned about Kelly, helps construct an MO and timeline of her crimes.This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.
Studio BOTH/AND presents: True Crime Bullsh**
If you enjoyed The Pact, check out host Josh Hallmark's other investigative deep dive into serial killer Israel Keyes: True Crime Bullsh**www.bothand.fyiwww.truecrimebullshit.comwww.patreon.com/studiobothand
18. Both/And
The finale. Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Research assistance by Becca Cline. Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, Whithe, and Stacxk.
Tour Announcement
Josh is heading out on the road. Catch him at:The True Crime & Paranormal Festival in Austin, Texas (8/26-8/27)www.truecrimepodcastfestival.comA casual Happy Hour in Tampa, Florida (9/10)www.bothand.fyi/tourObsessed Fest in Dallas, Texas (10/20-10/22)www.obsessedfest.com& Coming Soon:A Studio BOTH/AND Launch Party in North Adams, Mass.
Check out my newest podcast: Unsafe Spaces
Unsafe Spaces is an investigative, serialized true crime podcast that explores the crimes that take place in the places we’re supposed to feel safest. In Season One: Tampa’s Missing Men, I explore how two different missing persons cases, reported on the same day, opened a Pandora’s Box of unreported assaults, cold missing persons cases, ignored rapes, and unsolved murders within Florida’s gay comm
Studio BOTH/AND News & Announcements
Catch up on all things Studio BOTH/AND for the month of February (and beyond).This month's news:• New tours and events • Unsafe Spaces update • The Karen & Ellen Letters update • True Crime Bullsh** update • New projects • Our Americana update • Studio BOTH/AND Launch Party follow-up in The Berkshires this October • What's happening on Patreon this month Links: • True Crime Podcast Festival, u
Unsafe Spaces | Let's Violate the World
On December 22, 2003, two gay men were reported missing to Tampa PD. The investigations into their disappearances, would open a Pandora's Box that would force the police, the media, and society to examine how their actions and negligence led to some of Florida's most sinister crimes. This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. With additional research by: Kaz. Feat
Unsafe Spaces | I'm Gay, I'm F*cked
Steven Lorenzo comes to the forefront of Tampa PD's investigation into the disappearance of Jason Galehouse and the death of Michael Wachholtz. Lorenzo's criminal history leads to a sting operation that ends in a very haunting search of his home, and lists of some very important names. This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark With additional research by: Kaz Feat
Unsafe Spaces | It Was Scott
Steven Lorenzo's friend and accomplice is identified as Scott Schweickert. And the pair's history is revealed through AOL instant messages and a mutual friend. Tampa PD investigate multiple assaults within the Tampa gay community, leading to an arrest and a second search warrant. And the relationship between Steven and Scott gets complicated.This episode was written, researched, edited, and produc
Unsafe Spaces | It Was Steven
Scott Schweickert's house is searched, disturbing photos are found on Steven Lorenzo's computer, more Lorenzo assault victims come forward, someone confesses, and another gay man goes missing. This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark With additional research by: Kaz Featuring: • Dr. Scott from LA Not So Confidential • Drew Mackie from Gayest Episode Ever This is
Unsafe Spaces | Open Secret
At trial and at sentencing, Lorenzo's many surviving victims testified against him, including the impactful statements made by Albert Perkins, who Lorenzo kidnapped and assaulted in February of 2000. The testimony and eventual plea deals made by both Schweickert and Lorenzo would provide great insight into their MOs and victimology. But at what cost?Because by some accounts, investigators and the
Unsafe Spaces | Tacit Permissions & Behavioral Drifts
To better understand Lorenzo and Schweickert, their possible other crimes, and their MOs and victimology, Josh chats with clinical psychologist Dr. Scott (LA Not So Confidential) about killers who work in pairs, BDSM, Antisocial Personality Disorder, psychopathy, narcissism, and how homophobia made their ongoing crimes possible. Plus: The Warrior gene, behavioral drift, Kanye West, Anita Bryant, a
Unsafe Spaces | Oh, God
Season finale. This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark Featuring: Eric Carter-Landin from True Consequences and Crimelines & Consequences Albert Perkins Resources:Religiosity and Attitudes Toward Lesbians and Gay Men: A Meta-Analysis by Bernard E. Whitley Jr.How Religiosity Shapes Rejection of Homosexuals Across the Globe by Dirk-Jan JanssenThe New York Time
Retrospective 1: The Ignition
To celebrate 10 years in podcasting, we're spending the summer going back in time and both highlighting key episodes and telling the stories behind them; you’ll get new behind-the-scenes information about what was happening in life, in various investigations, and in the world that impacted these important episodes and their podcasts. You’ll learn how Josh started podcasting, how he started investi
Retrospective 2: Investigations
Retrospective 2 takes us to the origin of the investigation; where Josh's interest in storytelling evolved into his obsession of needing to know everything. And it started in a surprising place: a bound book of correspondence between two teenage girls and their landlord. What started as comedic found writing, became a mystery that people could not let go. And as Josh made his way through it, while
Retrospective 3: Darkness
In Retrospective 3, Josh discusses how 24 harrowing hours changed his life and the course of True Crime Bullsh**. He discusses how an incident re-shaped his vision for the first episode of the podcast, and his view on true crime and its darkness. Plus, the impact of that first episode on listeners, and the impact of those listeners on Josh.10th Anniversary Retreathttps://www.bothand.fyi/event-deta
Retrospective 4: Voices
In Retrospective 4, Josh discusses how massive life changes coalesced with the creation of the first season of TCB. How he isolated himself entirely to both heal and get into the head-spaces of the people he'd spent so much time researching and writing about. Plus, what went into creating the season one finale.10th Anniversary Retreathttps://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anni
