Call It What It Is
Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington, best friends from Grey's Anatomy, host a podcast where they navigate life's ups and downs together. They offer advice on relationships, toxic friendships, and in-law drama, often with humor and a glass of rosé or tequila. The duo opens their friendship circle to listeners, sharing personal stories and occasionally bringing on guests. While unlicensed, they tackle concerns with empathy and a lighthearted touch.
Episodes
Fortune Favors the Bold
Camilla tries a DIY bang trim after watching ONE TikTok. It goes about as well as you’d expect. Jessica, meanwhile, has a question that’s been top of mind: what’s the actual difference between being nice and being kind? Turns out it’s not just the word choice — it’s everything. One is armor. The other takes real courage. They get into spilled catastrophes, the invisible “good girl” rulebook Hollyw
A New York Minute
A trip to New York, the madness of Upfronts week, and one very unfortunate memory from the Grey’s Anatomy days all collide in this episode.
Jessica and Camilla swap stories from behind the scenes, including emergency fashion fixes, borrowed underwear, and a moment from more than ten years ago that somehow never made it out of the vault… until now.
Plus, Jessica shares an unexpected detail from
New Dawn New Day
New name, new era, same Jess & Camilla. They are officially back! In this premiere episode, they’re unpacking the brand-new look, the chaotic photoshoot that nearly triggered a full-blown panic attack, and life updates they’ve been hoarding while they were away. Trust us when we say that you have a lot to catch up on.
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisement
We Ride at Dawn (ish) | Coming June 18!
Hosted by actors Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington, We Ride at Dawn (ish) is your weekly dose of unfiltered conversation, real-life chaos and a peek behind the scenes.
At its heart, We Ride at Dawn (ish) is a podcast about friendship, resilience and showing up- even when the ride gets messy. It’s about weathering storms, staying in the saddle and knowing you’ve got someone beside you when t
Call It with Selling Sunset’s Sandra Vergara
Is ‘Selling Sunset’ selling more lies than listings? Sofia Vergara’s sister Sandra joins Jess and Camilla to spill what’s real and what’s reality-TV fiction.
She dishes on the “crafted” chaos, “directed” drama, and her so-called friendship with Chrishell.
Plus, Sandra explains the truth behind the Friendsgiving blow-up, why Nicole was fired and whether she’ll be back on Sunset Boulevard next sea
Call It Hot Takes, Hollywood Dreams and One Savage Frenemy
The girls get real, ridiculous and way too honest answering your fan questions. Hear their DWTS favorites, Sexiest Man Alive picks and the most chaotic chase for a 5pm first date. Plus, Camilla pitches the ultimate Grey’s storyline, and Jessica surprises the Crew with her secret dream reality show.
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Furry Skims, Ageless Skin and a Tacky Christmas Trend?
No beating around the bush, Jess and Camilla call out the ‘hair on underwear’ trend, facelift fails, and the beauty treatment you SHOULDN’T try!
Plus, move over Ralph Lauren…how Camilla is decking the halls her way, and why she’s OK being called ‘tacky’ when it comes to a cherished holiday tradition.
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Call It Throuples Therapy Over a ‘Bear-y’, Scary Encounter
A backyard bear, a freaked-out Camilla and one very unfiltered husband. There’s panic, laughter and just a hint of marital chaos as the Call It Crew talk through their feelings after a surprise visitor is caught on camera in Camilla and Matt’s backyard.
And…is Bigfoot real? Prepare to pick a side in this off-the-rails debate!
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Remembering Diane Keaton…with Kimberly Williams-Paisley
The Father of the Bride star opens up about losing her mentor and on-screen mom, Diane Keaton, and why her fondest memory with Diane didn't happen on a movie set.
Kimberly also dishes on her marriage to Brad Paisley, including who made the first move, how she really feels about his love songs, and the secret to keeping their relationship grounded and growing after two decades in the spotlight.
Se
Call It with Kimberly Williams-Paisley
What happens in Nashville... stays on the podcast! Jessica’s '9-1-1 Nashville' co-star Kimberly Williams-Paisley talks about what it’s like behind-the-scenes.
Plus, the 'Father of the Bride' reveals what it’s like to be at the epi-center of all the emergencies as Nashville’s 911 operator...and how she feared she might never act again after losing her voice for two years.
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Call It with Anthony Hill
Grey’s Anatomy’s cardio cutie, Dr. Winston Ndugu, scrubs in to tell tales of onscreen plot twists and offscreen escapades at Grey Sloan Memorial, including his character’s close call inside the hospital’s infamous “sex closet.”
Plus, he relives a “Super” night made possible by Paul Rudd…and how being a Kansas City hometown hero might just land him on Travis and Taylor’s wedding guest list!
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Call It: Secrets of the Season Premieres… everything you need to know about 9-1-1 Nashville and Grey’s
Camilla and Jessica deliver all the behind-the-scenes dish on the Grey’s and 9-1-1 Nashville premieres! Find out how Jessica’s on-screen beef with LeAnn Rimes turned into an online roast.
Plus, the story of a last minute 9-1-1 hire who the girls say is pure FIRE! And, from ‘Swiftie’ to ‘gifty,’ hear who received a special delivery from America’s favorite showgirl!
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Call It Social Media Anxiety
Camilla and Jess have ‘thoughts’ about posting protocol.
The Call it Crew debates the do’s, don’ts, and double taps of social media. Find out who checks with who for quality control and what Crew member gets post-click jitters after clicking ‘share.’
From sweaty pits to throwing fits, hear about Chris O’Donnell’s unexpected brush with a social media moment and Jess and Camilla's go-to platforms
Call It with Kim Raver (Part 2)
The conversation continues, and this time Kim shares a little kiss and tell! From her on-screen smooch with Sophia Bush, to directing their love scene, Kim shares the juicy details between Teddy and Cass.
Plus, what she really thinks about her character's 'I Choose Me' moment.
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Call It with Kim Raver
Paging Doctor Teddy! The episode you’ve been asking for is finally here! Grey’s Anatomy fan favorite Kim Raver “calls it what it is” with Camilla and Jessica, revealing secrets from our favorite fictional hospital, including which castmates bonded on screen and off.
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Call It Short & Sweet: Socialites, Spa Nights, and Skirt Heights
An ageless episode where Jessica and Camilla discuss the buzzworthy trends on TikTok.
Watch out socialites, they're calling out the good, the bad, and the blowouts!
Find out the dirt on the mini skirt, who likes to shimmer like a winner,
and who thinks it’s time to pack up the pearls.
Plus, how to spot a millennial in the wild, and why you won’t run into Jessica at a night spa!
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Call It: Bad Dates, Good Gossip & One Very Revealing Storyline
The Call It Crew is not holding back in this Q&A episode!
Camilla dishes on a dating disaster you have to hear RIGHT NOW!
Plus, a certain anatomy-focused plotline and the parenting decision that backfired.
And a bad case of the giggles on Grey's?
Find out which scene had the set laughing-out-MEOW!
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Call It: Pumpkin Spice & Everything Nice?
Too soon?
Jessica and Camilla are not on the same pumpkin flavored page when it comes to Halloween decor.Find out who's been stocking up on gourds in September as the Call It Crew tries to 'squash' a decoration debate. Is it too soon to get into the spooky spirit?
Plus, the pumpkin product that really gets under your skin!
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Call It Locking In, Glow-Up Goals, and Going Back-To-School!
New Year’s resolutions in September? It’s take two for the ‘Call It Crew’ as they share their new round of self-care goals. Hear why back-to-school season has been a ‘wake up’ call for Jessica and Camilla, and all about the red carpet reunion we’ve been waiting to see!
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Call It Short & Sweet: Fall Fashion, Suede Sneakers, & Duck Nails?
Grab your pumpkin spice latte and fall in love with this episode because Camilla and Jessica are breaking down the do's and don'ts of fall fashion.
From their go-to sweaters to their favorite boots, the Call It Crew is ready for their autumn rebrand, are you?
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Call It A Wedding, A Confession, and a Whole Lotta “Noooo!”
Jess & Camilla are diving into a Grey’s Anatomy Season Finale and things get messy.
From Amelia’s runaway bride moment to a living-room C-section, nothing about this episode was low-drama. Camilla gets candid about shooting the moment her big secret comes out and getting a little “booby” on screen, while Jess shares what it was like to be very pregnant and very tired during this shoot.
Plus, the
Call It Short & Sweet: Vaginal Skincare, Clitter Capsules, and Major Concerns
Wait, now our privates need to look perfect?? Jess and Camilla head South and call out the wildest trend taking over the beauty industry.
Hear how women are focusing on looking “vagtastic,” thanks to a new skincare craze. Does it work? Is it worth it? Plus, what in the sparkly vaginal skincare is “clitter” and why are doctors sounding the alarm on these clitter capsules?
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Call It: Taytay, Travis, and Our Engagement Era
We CALLED IT!
Jessica saw Taylor and Travis in person and knew they were end game. From the most perfect proposal pictures EVER, to the “Say Anything” moment we all wanted for her, our resident Swifties just can’t Shake it Off!
Meanwhile, is Jessica inner circle enough to get invited to the wedding? Camilla thinks so. Plus, the bling in that ring and the wedding dress we think screams Taylor. T
Call It Short & Sweet: Family, Fights, and Four Kids
Is four the magic number? Research shows raising four kids is easier on parents, but how does our own expert/mother-of-four feel about this?
Hear what Jessica calls the hardest part of parenting and why Camilla tapped out at two kids!
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Call It Sex, Socialites, and Hunting Wives with Chrissy Metz
Everyone is obsessed with 'The Hunting Wives' on Netflix and SO ARE WE!
Emmy-nominated actress Chrissy Metz takes us behind-the-scenes of the series that has captured country club drama like never before.
From the sex scenes that will make you blush, to the comments that make Chrissy laugh out loud...this is everything you want to know about the hottest show on streaming.
And the Emmy goes t
Call It Short & Sweet: Booze, Boys, and Bama Rush
The algorithm has sucked Camilla into all things sorority rush week, so it’s time she and Jessica do a deep dive.
Find out what the five "Bs" of recruitment are, why TikTok is obsessed, and all about those masterminding coaches during the most competitive time for sororities everywhere.
Plus, we've seen 'Bride Wars,' could a movie about 'Sorority Wars' be in the works?
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CALL IT: Amanda Knox, Twisted Tales and Media Frenzies
It’s an Amanda Knox confession we didn’t expect. Hear what saved her from spending the rest of her life in an Italian jail, how much her young daughter knows about the painful ordeal, and the eerie advice her mom gave her that could have course corrected everything!
Plus, her thoughts on studying abroad and whether she would do it all over again.
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Call It Fatigue, Medical Guesswork, and a Diagnosis No One Saw Coming
So many symptoms, so few answers. Until now.Camilla shares the diagnosis that changed her life forever with thyroid specialist Dr. Izabella Wentz.
Hear how easy it is to chock up symptoms to stress and our busy lives, when there could be something else going on in your body!
Find out what that was for Camilla and how she’s now thriving… not just surviving.
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Call It Short & Sweet: Pushover Parenting, Tough Love, and FAFO!
Camilla and her husband guide us through parenting pitfalls. Have they turned towards the “F*** Around and Find Out” approach to discipline? Or do they err on the side of gentle parenting?
Plus, a confession from Matt about being taught a lesson through tough love!
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Call It Short & Sweet: Gaslighting, Puffiness, & TikTok Docs
Wake up feeling like you burned the midnight oil even if you were in bed by 9? There might be an underlying reason behind that groggy, puffy vibe.
Camilla reveals her own diagnosis, and no it’s NOT perimenopause. Hear why it could be time to stop gaslighting your own body and block the fake TikTok docs!
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CALL IT: Microdosing, Ozempic, and Perimenopause
You know those questions you’re too embarrassed to ask your OBGYN?
Camilla and Jessica have you covered cause they’re asking all the awkward questions for you! Joined by Dr. A and Mary Alice Haney from SHE MD, no question is too cringe.
From the horrors of hormone imbalance, to your real risk for breast cancer, to the pros and cons of GLP-1 injections like Ozempic, SHE MD has you covered from pu
Call It Short & Sweet: Treatment or Torture - Scrotox, Laser Intel and Bikini Wax Confessions
No pain, no gain? Jessica and Camilla reveal the beauty treatments that feel like torture, not a treat. From getting rid of hair down there, to the facial fads that actually work…the Call It Crew is trying all the things, so you don’t have to.
Plus, Jess reveals a big bikini no-no while Camilla calls out the latest Botox trend. It’s the public service announcement you never knew you needed!
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Call It Triggers, Past Boyfriends and that Coldplay Kiss Cam
Camilla and Jessica are taking control of their triggers, or at least they're trying. From the holidays that are haunting, to the songs that bring back boyfriends and breakups, we all have bullets to dodge!
Hear how the ladies face their fears one trigger at a time, and what they say couples should be VERY careful about!!
And speaking of couples, don't miss their message for the cheater cheater
Call It Short & Sweet: Fitness Fads, Gymtimidation & Workout Woes
Talk about tales from the gym! You'll never guess the 'Gleek' who always had a front row seat at SoulCycle. Plus, Camilla shares a 'Barry' funny story about a certain 90s workout.
And, the ladies are CALLING OUT the biggest fitness faux-pas happening at a gym near you.
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Call It Country
Jessica is back from Tennessee and gives us the 411 on 9-1-1: Nashville.
Hear how the town took her by surprise, what it means to have a moving mindset and whether or not she sees herself moving to the popular southern city. Jessica also reveals her hopes for a karaoke cameo with LeAnn Rimes, and the one Grey’s wardrobe item she saved for the last episode.
Plus, Jessica and Camilla name their mu
Call It A Cliffhanger
If you think the Grey’s season 8 finale was full of suspense, what was happening behind the scenes was even more intense!
Jessica talks shooting the nail-biter with a bun in the oven, and the scene that made her fear for her baby!
Plus, season finale or SERIES finale? Hear why the cast was THIS CLOSE to calling it quits!
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Call It with Erin Slaver (Part Two)
Is Chris Carmack anything like Atticus Lincoln? Who questioned Camilla’s on-screen kisses? What irks Erin the most when it comes to her marriage?
Plus, a fun game of “F-Marry-Kill”…who wants to play?
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Call It with Erin Slaver (Part One)
Happy Wives Happy Life! Camilla catches up with her TV husband’s real life wife Erin Slaver.
Hear what Camilla really thought about Chris Carmack before they worked together, and how she ‘linked’ up with the family during Covid.
Plus, what REALLY went through Erin’s head when she saw her hubby marrying another woman on Grey’s!
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Call It What It Is...All Over Again
Jessica captures her first year hosting 'Call It' with a special message just for YOU!
She sums up the guests and the gossip while setting her intentions for Season 2!
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Call It Short & Sweet: You've Been Friend Zoned
Forget awkward first dates, Jessica and Camilla talk full-on dating disasters!
Hear all about the courtship curses that will get you friend-zoned for sure! Like Jessica's cringiest moment with a pair of chaps, and the time Camilla fell flat when all she wanted was to fall in love.
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Call It What You Want To
Jessica and Camilla are back together and taking on YOUR 'Call It' questions.Jessica dishes the 411 on Nashville 911, then they take us back to Seattle for some 'perfectly imperfect' Grey's Anatomy memories.
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Happy Birthday Call It Crew!
Can you believe 'Call It' just turned ONE??? Camilla covers a special episode to look back at the crazy year we’ve had and the wild wishes ahead!
Camilla’s biggest fangirl moment is revealed when she talks about the G.O.A.T. guest of season one, who she STANS for season two, and the side of Jess she hadn’t seen, or heard (wink wink) before doing this podcast!
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Call It Short & Sweet: How To Lose A Girl In 10
We watched Kate Hudson teach us how to lose a guy in 10 days, but what about the gal?
Jess & Camilla share their #1 ways to ditch an unwanted female and reversing a vibe you’re not vibing with.
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Call It Short & Sweet: That's So Nostalgic
From layering multiple tanks to printing out a map instead of using your iPhone, Jess is flying solo and giggling her way through some submissions from the crew all about things they used to do that would make you do a triple take in 2025.
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Call It with Jenna Johnson
Jess & Camilla are putting on their dancing shoes because DWTS Mirror Ball-winning queen, Jenna Johnson, is here!
She talks about partner withdrawal, her dream pairing and hears why Jess & Camilla want to meet her on the dance floor to compete.
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Call It Short & Sweet: ChatGPT
Jess & Camilla are blown away by their recent discovery of ChatGPT and AI and all that she can do!
They share some interesting statistics and how it’s helped them solve some recent family crisis situations.
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Call it Mom Guilt
Balancing being a working mama is so tough, so of course it comes with lots of guilt when it comes to leaving the kids to take care of business.
Jess & Camilla reveal how they've managed to keep it together and even deal with the moms who give them the side eye over their parenting decisions.
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Call It Short & Sweet: Puppy Blues
Puppies are adorable, but like babies, they can bring on some post arrival blues. Camilla explains how her new pooch is making her come to terms with this new diagnosis as Jess reveals why she got a second dog.
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Call It with Natasha Bedingfield
Can anyone else feel the rain on your skin? Jess has the goosebumps because her good pal, Natasha Bedingfield, is joining to discuss the massive impact her hit single "Unwritten" has left.
Natasha also shares what famous royal owned her dog before she did!
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Call It With Tinx
Tinx is here to share all of her secrets on how to land the perfect match.
She opens up about her new book, including which actors she’s dying to cast.
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Call It The Right Q’s & A’s
The Call It Crew came through with some great Qs for the gals to spill on.
Camilla talks about a recent bout with flying anxiety while giving engagement advice, as Jess suggests some must-do's in the workplace.
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Call It Short & Sweet: Shades of Summer
Jess & Camilla can't wait for the warmer weather, and they're sharing what colors they're leaning towards as temperatures hopefully begin to rise soon.
Jess shares why a certain shade of blue reminds her of Arizona Robbins as Camilla predicts a darker shade will be the one to watch.
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Call It with Bryce Dallas Howard
Camilla is flying solo, but she's got the director of the new Pets documentary, Bryce Dallas Howard with her!
They discuss the real reason why kids love having a furry best friend, the advice Bryce's famous dad gives her and intimidating times involving fans from the Star Wars universe.
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Call It Short & Sweet: Paging 9-1-1
Jess is literally calling 9-1-1 in Nashville!
She talks about the big moment she got the call to appear next to Chris O’Donnell as Camilla screams on the sidelines for her BFF while pitching herself for a super cute cameo.
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Call It A Perfect Story Grey's Recap
Jess & Camilla are recapping an episode that was truly a perfect storm during season 9 and it's all about Arizona and Callie!
They're talking about a foreshadowing experience involving an engagement ring and Jess's impeccable chemistry with Hilarie Burton all while still being sad they didn't get many scenes together in this one!
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Call it Short & Sweet: I Auditioned for The White Lotus
Season 3 of "The White Lotus" may have come to an end, but the buzz around the finale is still going strong.
Jess drops major news and reveals which character she auditioned for, and Camilla has a suggestion for Mike White.
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Call It Botox, Threads and Fillers…Oh My!
Camilla becomes a full-blown fangirl over today’s guest, Vanessa Lee RN!
Vanessa gives a blunt answer as to what work she’s recommending Camilla get done while Jess gets the lowdown on beauty must haves.
They also find out what Vanessa really thinks about “baby botox” and Lindsay Lohan’s recent glow-up.
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Call It Short & Sweet: The Big Grey's 2-OH!
Jess & Camilla are celebrating "Grey's" big 20th anniversary by discussing all the things, including how Camilla found out the show is an official go for season 22!
They also discuss Sandra Oh's latest comments about a potential return for her and Jess shares if she'd ever come back to the show.
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Call It with Ariana DeBose
Jess is flying solo with actress and singer, Ariana DeBose.
They discuss insecurities and fitting into the industry, working with castmates who can’t remember their lines and interesting toxic traits.
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Call It Short & Sweet: The Comfort of Grey's
TV shows and movies can be a great source of comfort and security. Jess & Camilla share what it's like to know they are a part of so many people's lives to unwind and feel good.
They answer some Call It Crew Qs on the topic of comfort and share their favorite things to watch and unwind.
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Call It with Chris Carmack
Jess is the third wheel today… Camilla’s TV fiancé, Chris Carmack is here!
From why it took him so long to not feel like the new guy, to his first smooch with Camilla, he addresses it all!
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Call It Short & Sweet: Let’s Elope
Camilla’s hubby Matt is back and shares why they debated eloping… do they regret it?
Plus, they take some questions from the Call It Crew about their wedding days, one member may have had an accident in their pants.
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Call It Short & Sweet: Use Your Imagination
Close your eyes and use your imagination, at least that’s what Jess & Camilla are doing today!
The duo addresses some of their deepest fears, from worrying about death to having anxious thoughts, they pretend what it would be like if their lives were just like the movies.
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Call It Gossip Girls
Gossiping may not be as bad as you think...
Jess and Camilla talk about the good, the bad, and navigating the secret “spicy” list that comes with it.
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Call It Short & Sweet: Feelin' 22
We don't know about you, but we are feelin' 22!
Jess & Camilla share what they'd tell their younger selves over a cup of coffee if they could today and urge their younger listeners from the Call It Crew to enjoy their youth.
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Call It with Mom & Dad
It’s time to get to know Camilla’s husband…
From breaking red lipstick news, to why Chili’s is the perfect date night.
Falls, farts, and how they keep their relationship flourishing!
Plus, Matt is offering his best manly advice to the Call It Crew!
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Call It Short & Sweet: Academy Awards Edition
Jess & Camilla cannot stop thinking about a golden statue of a man, and his name is Oscar!
They are recapping some of the best moments from Hollywood's biggest night including Kieran Culkin and Zoe Saldaña's speech to Adrien Brody throwing his gum and more.
Plus, Jess reveals what it's really like attending the Academy Awards
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Call It Different Stages
Life is always evolving which means your friendships and relationships either do the same or grow in opposite directions.
Jess & Camilla talk about being at different stages along the way with some of their friends and how to spot out drifters and sniff out toxic relationships.
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Call It Short & Sweet: Escaping Reality
Sometimes it's fun to close your eyes and just escape whatever your reality is.
From the weather to writing scripts and even Taylor Swift, find out how Camilla & Jess love to play pretend.
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Call It With Harry Shum Jr.
It’s like a giant stroll down the halls of William McKinley High!
Jess & Camilla sit down with Harry Shum Jr. who shares tons of BTS Glee moments from back in the day, including how his grandmother’s death led him to his audition, his favorite guest star and more.
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Call It Short & Sweet: That Real Low Energy
It's a quick episode for our Call It Crew all about low energy hobbies and why the topic hits Jess & Camilla the right way.
Plus, hear how Kristin Chenoweth's passion for bedazzling gave Camilla the urge to try something new.
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Call It With Mel Robbins
Jess is fangirling out in the biggest way because Mel Robbins is in the house!
Camilla asks Mel to break down her "Let Them" theory as Jess works through her recovering phase as a people pleaser.
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Call It Short & Sweet: Valentine's Edition!
Jess and Camilla discuss the best and worst gifts to celebrate the holiday of love from the Call It Crew.
Camilla shares a hilarious story of being recognized from "Grey's" while she was buying lingerie.
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Call It with Stefania Spampinato
Jess & Camilla are talking all things SEX with Stefania
She reveals why her sexual preferences since her days working at Grey Sloan Memorial may not be the same as they once were.
Plus, the trio has a giggle about vibrators and more…
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Call It The First 'Grey's' Rewatch Part II!
The "Grey's" rewatch party is so juicy that Jess & Camilla had to roll it into two parts!
The gals talk about why it's so important for them to nail this experience for the fans and even go a little off tangent discussing topics like giving birth and edibles.
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Call It The First Ever 'Grey's' Rewatch!
Jess & Camilla are going into uncharted territory by doing their first ever "Grey's" rewatch!
From being blown away over how young Camilla looks, to explaining how exactly blood gets everywhere, the duo are dissecting what it was really like behind the scenes.
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Call It Short & Sweet: Guilty Pleasures
Is there REALLY such a thing as a guilty pleasure?! Jess & Camilla aren't so sure!
From "Grey's" episodes to Häagen-Dazs pints, they're diving into some pretty interesting ones, including one from the Call It Crew involving smelling underwear.
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Call It The Ins & Outs For 2025
The gals have good taste and they know it! Jess & Camilla are putting their best predictions forward when it comes to what's in and what's on its way out for 2025. Jess shares a story involving a prank with an imaginary ghost, her car, and her kids.
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Call It Short & Sweet: Just Order The Steak
When you have a new crush, do you play hard to get or keep it real chill? It’s so hard to know what to do when navigating a relationship, so Jess & Camilla are doing what they do best and dishing out some solid advice! Camilla also shares what she used to always order in her dating era and why she cringes at it now.
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Call It You Drive Me Crazy
If your parents don’t do things that drive you absolutely nuts, you’re lying. Jess & Camilla call on the crew to share the most annoying parental habits out there, including something Camilla’s kids should one day be terrified for!
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