Scaling Laws
Scaling Laws explores the intersection of AI, innovation policy, and the law. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein and Kevin Frazier interview experts on AI development, regulation, and adoption, and provide rapid-response analysis of breaking AI governance news.
Episodes
Scaling Laws Live at Nebraska Law: Matt Tokson on AI Surveillance
What happens to society, law and privacy when artificial intelligence makes it possible for police to detect nearly every observable crime? Matthew Tokson, Director of the Criminal Law Program and Associate Dean for Research and Faculty Development at the University of Utah S.J. Quinney College of Law, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas Sc
Hélène Landemore on Public Participation in AI Governance
Hélène Landemore, Professor of Political Science at Yale University and a fellow at Oxford’s Institute for Ethics in AI, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to examine who should decide what AI is for. Starting with Landemore’s recent Noema essay, the pair discuss why decisions about AI’s purpos
Child Safety AI Policy at Scale with Vaishnavi J and Dave Willner
Dave Willner, co-founder of Zentropi, and Vaishnavi J., founder and principal of Vys, join Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, to examine how AI is affecting younger users and why existing child-safety responses often default to age gates, parental consent, and outright bans.The conver
Live from Columbia Law with Chloé Bakalar: What can constitutions teach us about governing AI?
Chloé Bakalar, ASI Ethics Lead at Responsible Superintelligence Institute (RESI) and a Senior Research Associate at University College London, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, for a Scaling Laws Roadshow conversation recorded at Columbia Law School. Big thanks to Eliza Steffen for organizing
Is Meta's Oversight Board a Model for AI Governance
Kenji Yoshino, Chief Justice Earl Warren Professor of Constitutional Law at New York University School of Law and a member of Meta’s Oversight Board, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law, and guest co-host Kate Klonick to discuss what frontier AI companies can learn from the Oversight Board. Yoshino recently co-authored a Tech
Algorithmic Disgorgement with Christina Lee [Live From LawAI's Workshop on Law-Following AI]
Christina Lee, Visiting Associate Professor of Law and Privacy and Technology Law Fellow at George Washington University Law School, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, from the Institute of Law and AI’s Workshop on Law-Following AI in Cambridge, UK. They discuss her forthco
Building AI Assurance Ecosystem with Bri Treece (PACT AI) and Dr. Rob Slone (UL Solutions)
Bri Treece, Executive Director of PACT AI, and Dr. Rob Slone, Chief Scientist & Innovation Officer at UL Solutions, join Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at Texas Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss a neglected layer of AI governance: the organizations that deploy AI in real-world products, services, and operations.They discuss why PACT AI was formed, wha
Founders & Founders: Brandon Mitchell of WriteSea
Brandon Mitchell, founder of WriteSea, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the growing role of artificial intelligence in workforce development. WriteSea’s platform provides AI-driven career guidance, helping job seekers refine resumes, practice interviews, and navigate modern hiring systems that
AI Consciousness with Anil Seth
Anil Seth, Professor of Cognitive and Computational Neuroscience and Director of the Sussex Centre for Consciousness Science at the University of Sussex, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to examine whether artificial intelligence could ever be conscious.Drawing on Seth’s essay, “The Mythology
Matt Abrams on Trust and the Migration to the Digital Age
Matt Abrams, technologist, investor, and co-founder of $1 Billion for Trust, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the collapse of institutional trust and how AI may accelerate — or potentially help reverse — that trend.The conversation explores Matt’s work to rebuild trust in information ecosystems, in
Founders & Founders: Matthew Schwartz of Virgo
Matthew Schwartz, founder of Virgo, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss how AI is beginning to reshape gastroenterology. Virgo’s model is trained on one of the largest collections of endoscopy procedure videos ever assembled, opening new possibilities for earlier diagnosis, personalized treatment
Daniel Kokotajlo on AI 2040: Plan A
Daniel Kokotajlo, former OpenAI researcher and executive director of the AI Futures Project, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at Texas Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, to detail his policy recommendation–AI 2040: Plan A. It’s a thorough analysis of a policy pathway to delaying superintelligence, which Daniel and his co-authors think is necessary to ensure that th
DZ Kalman on the Role of Faith in AI Policy
DZ Kalman, fellow at the Berkman Klein Center, research fellow at the Shalom Hartman Institute, senior advisor at Sinai & Synapses, and host of Belief in the Future, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explore what religious traditions can teach AI governance.DZ and Kevin discuss religious responses to AI
Founders & Founders: Laura Davis of USLege
Laura Davis, founder of USLege, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to dive into how USLege is leveraging AI to transform the way professionals monitor and respond to government activity.USLege’s platform aims to be the answer to the prayers of many policy stakeholders. It captures and analyzes legislative h
Google's Kent Walker on Regulating Frontier AI
Kent Walker, President of Global Affairs at Google and Alphabet, joins Kevin to discuss Google's proposal for a two-pronged approach to AI governance: a Frontier AI Regulatory Organization, which like FINRA, would operate as an independent, industry-based governance body overseen by a federal agency and the application of existing laws to widely-deployed, less capable systems.The two also discuss
The Politics and Politicking of AI with Assemblymember Alex Bores
Assemblymember Alex Bores ran for Congress on a platform that in many ways centered on AI policy. He therefore drew considerable support as well as substantial opposition from interest groups across the country. Though Bores lost in the Democratic primary, his experience is worth exploring in detail.Alan and Kevin dive in with some key questions:what did he hear from voters on AI? are everyday New
Courtney Cox on AI in Adjudication [live from the Institute of Law & AI's Workshop on Law-Following AI]
Courtney Cox, Associate Professor of Law at Fordham Law School, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss her forthcoming article, Hardwiring Hercules?.It’s a great read that builds on Dworkin’s idea of a perfect adjudicator, Hercules. Courtney argues that the debate over a “right to a human decision” has m
Founders & Founders: Nils Tracy of Authorship
Nils Tracy, founder of Authorship, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to detail the challenges and solutions to deploying AI in highly sensitive contexts.Authorship enables users to map their AI policies to myriad use cases--from on-device AI tools to those connected to the cloud. It's a direct effort to ta
New paths to social mobility with Joe Seddon
Joe Seddon, Founder and CEO of Zero Gravity, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, to discuss AI, social mobility, higher education, and the future of opportunity. Zero Gravity is a UK-based platform that helps launch students from low-opportunity backgrounds into leading universit
Founders & Founders: Adi Tantravahi of Cofactor
Adi Tantravahi, founder of Cofactor, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to talk about how AI can help cut through the administrative red tape that underlies and, in many ways, undermines the modern healthcare system.Cofactor’s AI platform focuses on denial management—an area where hospitals routinely lose r
All Things Data Centers with Andy Masley
Andy Masley joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior editor at Lawfare, and Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare and associate professor at Minnesota Law, to unpack the increasingly contentious issues related to data centers.They discuss Andy’s efforts to challenge what he sees as misleading claims about data
Founders & Founders: Kal Clark of Zauron Labs
Kal Clark, co-founder of Zauron Labs, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explain how AI is already reducing diagnostic errors in radiology.Kal details how Zauron’s AI system functions as a second-look safety layer, reviewing imaging exams for high-impact missed findings before those results translate int
Lawfare Daily: 'The Reverse Centaur's Guide to Life After AI’—A Conversation with Cory Doctorow
Alan Rozenshtein, associate professor of law at the University of Minnesota and research director at Lawfare, and Kate Klonick, associate professor of law at St. John's University School of Law and a senior editor at Lawfare, spoke with science fiction novelist and technology journalist Cory Doctorow about about his new book, The Reverse Centaur's Guide to Life After AI, which argues that AI is be
Founders & Founders: Dhruv Diddi of Solo Tech
Dhruv Diddi, founder of Solo Tech, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the emerging frontier of Physical AI. Solo Tech builds infrastructure that allows developers to deploy AI models directly onto robots and edge devices rather than relying on cloud-based computation. In other words, think about
"The God Test": AI as Cosmic Reckoning, with Robert Wright
Alan Rozenshtein, Research Director at Lawfare, spoke with Robert Wright—author of Nonzero, The Moral Animal, The Evolution of God, and Why Buddhism Is True, and the writer behind the NonZero Newsletter and podcast—about his new book, The God Test: Artificial Intelligence and Our Coming Cosmic Reckoning, which argues that AI is an evolutionary threshold on the scale of the entire history of life,
Justified Posteriors join Scaling Laws: Two economists and two lawyers walk into a podcast studio
In this cross-pod episode, Alan and Kevin join Seth Benzell and Andrey Fradkin of Justified Posteriors to explore a big question: what should AI be for?The conversation begins with Pope Leo XIV’s recent encyclical. The group discusses how economists should think about the Church’s role in AI debates, what counts as an AI-related market failure, whether moral and religious institutions can help add
Explain to Shane (Tews) and Scaling Laws
Shane Tews, host of Explain to Shane and nonresident senior fellow at AEI, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, for a cross-post conversation about the AI and cyber executive order, workforce disruption, and the future of education. They also share their respective research agenda
Lawyering on the Frontier with Janel Thamkul
Janel Thamkul, former frontier counsel team member at Anthropic, joins Kevin Frazier to discuss what it means to practice law at the frontier of AI.This episode starts with a review of Janel’s fascinating and varied background. Next, she walks through her initial exploration of a career in art before eventually pivoting to the law based on some very formative experiences. Kevin and Janel then inve
Radical Optionality: Governing Transformative AI, with Christoph Winter and Charlie Bullock
Alan Rozenshtein, Research Director at Lawfare and Visiting Senior Fellow at the Institute for Law & AI (LawAI), spoke with Christoph Winter, LawAI Founding Director and Assistant Professor of Law and AI at the University of Cambridge, and LawAI Senior Research Fellow Charlie Bullock, about their new paper "Radical Optionality: Governing Transformative AI Under Uncertainty," which argues that,
Tom Davidson on the Importance of AI Character
Tom Davidson joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss AI timelines, explosive economic growth, and the increasingly urgent debate over “AI character” — the behavioral traits and decision-making tendencies embedded into advanced AI systems.Drawing on Davidson’s recent paper, “The Importance of AI Character,
Governing the Frontier with Owen Larter of Google DeepMind
Owen Larter, Senior Director and Head of Frontier Policy and Public Affairs at Google DeepMind, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to provide an inside look at how DeepMind approaches frontier governance. The conversation moves beyond the familiar U.S.-EU-China framing of AI policy to examine international
Inside the Fight to Detect and Govern Synthetic Abuse with Melissa Hutchins of Certifi AI
Melissa Hutchins, founder and CEO of Certifi AI, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the rise of deepfakes, non-consensual sexually explicit imagery, and the growing policy fight over AI-generated harms online.Drawing from both her professional work and her personal experience as a victim of cyberstal
HAGS (with AI): How AI Tools Are Shaping Education with Adeel Khan and Ryan Trattner
Adeel Khan of MagicSchool AI and Ryan Trattner of StudyFetch join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the rapid integration of artificial intelligence into education.The conversation explores how AI tools are being used by both teachers and students, from automating lesson planning to providing personalized t
The Politics of Data Centers with VA Delegate John McAuliff
John McAuliff, a Delegate in the Viriginia House of Delegates, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program and a Senior Fellow with the Abundance Institute, to discuss the ongoing debates around data centers at the state level. John was one of the first candidates to recognize data centers as a key issue. He had to convince his polling team to put the issue on early sur
Let's Do the Science! Talking Algorithms with Cathy O'Neill
Cathy O’Neil, CEO of ORCAA and author of Weapons of Math Destruction and The Shame Machine, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explore the promises and limits of algorithmic auditing.The conversation examines what audits actually do in practice, how organizations measure and mitigate bias, and w
Escaping One-Size-Fits-All AI Policy with Sean Perryman
Sean Perryman, AI policy lead at Uber and lecturer on AI Governance and Ethics at Vanderbilt Law School, joins Kevin Frazier, the Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, to explore the rapidly evolving debate over algorithmic pricing and AI governance.The conversation begins with the rise of state-level
Forecasting AI's Impact on the Economy with Deger Turan, CEO of Metaculus
Deger Turan, CEO of Metaculus, joins Kevin Frazier to unpack new forecasts on how AI could reshape the labor market over the next decade.The conversation centers on a striking divergence between Metaculus forecasts and projections from institutions like the Bureau of Labor Statistics—raising fundamental questions about whether existing tools for understanding the economy can keep pace wi
Rapid Response: An "FDA for AI" at the White House?, with Dean Ball
Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, spoke with Dean Ball, Senior Fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation and former Senior Policy Advisor for AI at the White House Office of Science and Technology P
Lawfare Daily: Why AI Won’t Revolutionize Law (At Least Not Yet), with Arvind Narayanan and Justin Curl
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, speaks with Justin Curl, a third-year J.D. candidate at Harvard Law School, and Arvind Narayanan, professor of computer science at Princeton University and director of the Center for Information Technology Policy, about their new Lawfare research report, “AI Won't Automatically Make Legal Services Cheaper,” co-authored with Princeton P
An EU-perspective on America’s Approach to AI with Marietje Schaake
In this episode of Scaling Laws, Kate Klonick, Associate Professor of Law at St. John’s University and a fellow at the Brookings Institution, and Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, are joined by Marietje Schaake, the International Policy Director at Stanford University’s Cyber Policy
Eliminating Barriers to AI Adoption with Clarion AI's Bennett Borden
Bennett Borden, Founder and CEO of Clarion AI Partners, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at UT and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, to discuss AI adoption as well as the future of the law and legal practice. The two explore Bennett’s unique background, Clarion’s AI interdisciplinary approach, and the importance of AI adoption. They also cover innovative work underwa
Facts & Myths About AI's Energy Usage with Gavin McCormick
In this episode of Scaling Laws, we explore how the "black box" of global greenhouse gas emissions is being cracked open by artificial intelligence and satellite imagery. Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, talks with Gavin McCormick, the founder of ClimateTrace, a global coalitio
AI as Abnormal Technology? Scott Sullivan Analyzes AI in the Military Domain
Scott Sullivan, professor of law at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and a leading contributor to the Manual on International Law Applicable to Artificial Intelligence in Warfare, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to examine whether AI should be understood as a “normal” or “abnormal” technology.Drawing
Lawfare Daily: Talking About Sam Altman with Ronan Farrow and Andrew Marantz
Senior Editor Kate Klonick interviews reporters Ronan Farrow and Andrew Marantz on their recent article in the New Yorker, titled “Sam Altman May Control Our Future—Can He Be Trusted?” In their 16,000-word piece, Farrow and Marantz create a cohesive narrative with receipts around Sam Altman, the products he's building at OpenAI, and how he's selling them not just to investors and the public, but a
Why AI Needs Independent Auditors, with Miles Brundage
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Miles Brundage, founding executive director of the AI Verification and Evaluation Research Institute (AVERI) and former senior advisor for AGI readiness at OpenAI, about the state of AI safety and accountability and AVERI's vision for independent third-party auditing of frontier AI companies.The conversation covered the weaknesses of curre
Productivity Boom? Labor Shock? Google's Chief Economist on AI
Fabien Curto Millet, Chief Economist at Google, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, and Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, to discuss the potential of AI to catalyze a productivity boom while also addressing labor market instability. The t
Abundance & AI? Nicholas Bagley Explains
Nicholas Bagley, Professor of Law at Michigan Law, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, for a live recording of the podcast in Ann Arbor. Thanks to Graham Hardig and Brinson Elliott for organizing a great event. Professors Bagley and Frazier start by analyzing a recent debate over
How To Use, Govern, And Lead On AI? Rep. Begich Points The Path Forward
Representative Nick Begich, Alaska's at-large member of Congress, joins Kevin Frazier, Director the the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, to discuss the current state of AI policy on the Hill. As one of the few members of Congress with a background in tech, Rep. Begich offers a unique perspective on this unique an
Should AI Laws Be Subject To A Higher Standard? The Right to Compute with Kendall Cotton
Kendall Cotton, Founder and CEO of Montana’s Frontier Institute, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss Montana’s groundbreaking Right to Compute Act and how Montana hopes to protect access to AI and related technologies. We will discuss the history and reach of this Act and why other states may
Why Data Governance Is the Key to AI Biosecurity, with Jassi Pannu and Doni Bloomfield
Why Data Governance Is the Key to AI Biosecurity, with Jassi Pannu and Doni Bloomfield Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Jassi Pannu, assistant professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, and Doni Bloomfield, associate professor of law at Fordham Law School, about their
Rapid Response Pod: Trump's New AI Framework with Helen Toner & Dean Ball
On Friday, March 20, the Trump Administration announced a National Policy Framework for AI. White House officials have stressed that they want Congress to act on the framework's recommendations within the year. What this all means for AI policy is an open question that warrants calling in two of the smartest folks in the business: Helen Toner, Interim Executive Director at
Is AI a Death Sentence for Civic Institutions?, with Jessica Silbey and Woodrow Hartzog
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Woodrow Hartzog, the Andrew R. Randall Professor of Law at Boston University School of Law, and Jessica Silbey, Professor of Law and Honorable Frank R. Kenison Distinguished Scholar in Law at Boston University School of Law, about their new paper "How AI Destroys Institutions," which argues that AI systems threaten to erode the c
Can AI Enable Human Agency?, with Tomicah Tillemann
Tomicah Tillemann, President at Project Liberty Institute, joins the show. Tomicah offers a unique perspective on regulating emerging technology given his time as a venture capitalist and head of policy at Andreessen Horowitz and Haun Ventures. His contemporary focus is on identifying “policy solutions that enable human agency and human flourishing in an AI-powered world.” It’s a tall order that h
Live from Ashby: Taking a Long View on AI Governance with Austin Carson and Caleb Watney
Kevin Frazier hangs out with Caleb Watney of the Institute for Progress and Austin Carson of SeedAI at the Ashby Workshops to discuss the long-run policy foundations needed for the AI Age.Rather than focusing on near-term regulation, the conversation explores how AI challenges existing assumptions about state capacity, research funding, talent pipelines, and institutional design. Caleb and Austin
Scaling Laws x AI Summer: Who Controls the Machine God?
Alan Rozenshtein, associate professor of law at the University of Minnesota and research director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and senior editor at Lawfare, were joined by Dean Ball, senior fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation and author of the Hyperdimensional newsletter, and Timothy B. Lee, author of the Understa
In Defense of Optimism with Packy McCormick
Packy McCormick, founder of Not Boring and Not Boring Capital, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, to discuss the power of narratives in tech, the intersection of investing and policy, and what it means to build frameworks for the future in an age of rapid technological
The Pentagon Goes to War With Anthropic
An impasse is coming to a head. The resolution is unknown. The Department of Defense has made clear that Anthropic has until 5:01pm ET today, February 27th, 2026, to permit its use of Claude for any lawful purpose. CEO Dario Amodei doubled down on his insistence that Anthropic tools should not be used for mass domestic surveillance or the operation of lethal autonomous weapons. The Penta
Can AI Make AI Regulation Cheaper?, with Cullen O'Keefe and Kevin Frazier
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Cullen O'Keefe, research director at the Institute for Law & AI, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law and senior editor at Lawfare, about their paper, "Automated Compliance and the Regulation of AI" (and associated Lawfare article), which argues that AI system
Claude's Constitution, with Amanda Askell
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, senior editor at Lawfare, spoke with Amanda Askell, head of personality alignment at Anthropic, about Claude's Constitution: a 20,000-word document that describes the values, character, and ethical framework of Anthropic's flagship AI model and plays a direct role in its training.The conversation covered how the constitution i
Live from Ashby: Adaptive AI Governance with Gillian Hadfield and Andrew Freedman
Kevin Frazier sits down with Andrew Freedman of Fathom and Gillian Hadfield, AI governance scholar, at the Ashby Workshops to examine innovative models for AI regulation.They discuss:Why traditional regulation struggles with rapid AI innovation.The concept of Regulatory Markets and how it aligns with the unique governance challenges posed by AI.Critiques of hybrid governance: concerns about a “rac
The Persuasion Machine: David Rand on How LLMs Can Reshape Political Beliefs
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, and Renee DiResta, associate research professor at Georgetown University's McCourt School of Public Policy and contributing editor at Lawfare, spoke with David Rand, professor of information science, marketing, and psychology at Cornell University.The conversation covered how inattention to accuracy drives misinformation sharing and the effectiveness
Alan and Kevin join the Cognitive Revolution.
Nathan Labenz, host of the Cognitive Revolution, sat down with Alan and Kevin to talk about the intersection of AI and the law. The trio explore everything from how AI may address the shortage of attorneys in rural communities to the feasibility and desirability of the so-called "Right to Compute." Learn more about the Cognitive Revolution here. It's our second favorite AI pod
Is this your last "job"? The AI Economy With AEI's Brent Orrell
Most folks agree that AI is going to drastically change our economy, the nature of work, and the labor market. What's unclear is when those changes will take place and how best Americans can navigate the transition. Brent Orrell, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, joins Kevin Frazier, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, the Director of the AI Innovation and Law
Rapid Response Pod on The Implications of Claude's New Constitution
Jakub Kraus, a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, spoke with Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, about Anthropic's newly released "constitution" for
The Honorable AI? Shlomo Klapper Talks Judicial Use of AI
Shlomo Klapper, founder of Learned Hand, joins Kevin Frazier, the Director of the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the rise of judicial AI, the challenges of scaling technology inside courts, and the implications for legitimacy, due process, and access to justice. Hoste
How AI Can Transform Local Criminal Justice, with Francis Shen
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Francis Shen, Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota, director of the Shen Neurolaw Lab, and candidate for Hennepin County Attorney.The conversation covered the intersection of neuroscience, AI, and criminal justice; how AI tools can improve criminal investigations and clearance rates; the role of AI in adjudication and plea negot
Release Schedules and Iterative Deployment with Open AI's Ziad Reslan
Ziad Reslan, a member of OpenAI’s Product Policy Staff and a Senior Fellow with the Schmidt Program on Artificial Intelligence, Emerging Technologies, and National Power at Yale University, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to talk about iterative deployment--the lab’s approach to testing and deploying its mod
A Year That Felt Like a Decade: 2025 Recap with Sen. Maroney & Neil Chilson
Connecticut State Senator James Maroney and Neil Chilson, Head of AI Policy at the Abundance Institute, join Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, and Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, for a look back at a wild year in AI policy.Neil provides his expert analysis
Cass Sunstein on What AI Can and Cannot Do
Alan Z. Rozenshtein, Lawfare senior editor and associate professor of law the University of Minnesota, speaks with Cass Sunstein, the Robert Walmsley University Professor at Harvard University, about his new book, Imperfect Oracle: What AI Can and Cannot Do. They discuss when we should trust algorithms over our own judgment, why AI can eliminate the noise and bias that plague human decision-m
AI Chatbots and the Future of Free Expression with Jacob Mchangama and Jacob Shapiro
Renée DiResta, Lawfare contributing editor and associate research professor at Georgetown's McCourt School of Public Policy, and Alan Z. Rozenshtein, Lawfare senior editor and associate professor of law the University of Minnesota, spoke with Jacob Mchangama, research professor of political science at Vanderbilt University and founder of The Future of Free Speech, and Jacob Shapiro, the John Foste
Rapid Response Pod on the AI Preemption Executive Order
In this rapid response episode, Lawfare senior editors Alan Rozenshtein and Kevin Frazier and Lawfare Tarbell fellow Jakub Kraus discuss President Trump's new executive order on federal preemption of state AI laws, the politics of AI regulation and the split between Silicon Valley Republicans and MAGA populists, and the administration's decision to allow Nvidia to export H200 chips to China.&
Graham Dufault on small businesses and navigating EU AI laws
Graham Dufault, General Counsel at ACT | The App Association, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explore how small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) are navigating the EU's AI regulatory framework. The duo breakdown the Association's recent survey of SMEs, which included the views of more than 1,000 enter
Caleb Withers on the Cybersecurity Frontier in the Age of AI
Caleb Withers, a researcher at the Center for a New American Security, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss how frontier models shift the balance in favor of attackers in cyberspace. The two discuss how labs and governments can take steps to address these asymmetries favoring attackers, and the fut
A Startup's Perspective on AI Policy
Andrew Prystai, CEO and co-founder of Vesta, and Thomas Bueler-Faudree, co-founder of August Law, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to think through AI policy from the startup perspective. Andrew and Thomas are the sorts of entrepreneurs that politicians on both sides of the aisle talk about at town
Anthropic's General Counsel, Jeff Bleich, Explores the Intersection of Law, Business, and Emerging Technology
Jeff Bleich, General Counsel at Anthropic, former Chief Legal Officer at Cruise, and former Ambassador to Australia during the Obama administration, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to get a sense of how the practice of law looks at the edge of the AI frontier.The two also review how Jeff’s prior work in the
The AI Economy and You: How AI Is, Will, and May Alter the Nature of Work and Economic Growth with Anton Korinek, Nathan Goldschlag, and Bharat Chander
Anton Korinek, a professor of economics at the University of Virginia and newly appointed economist to Anthropic's Economic Advisory Council, Nathan Goldschlag, Director of Research at the Economic Innovation Group, and Bharat Chander, Economist at Stanford Digital Economy Lab, join Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawf
Anthropic's Gabriel Nicholas Analyzes AI Agents
Gabriel Nicholas, a member of the Product Public Policy team at Anthropic, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to introduce the policy problems (and some solutions) posed by AI agents. Defined as AI tools capable of autonomously completing tasks on your behalf, it’s widely expected that AI agents will soon becom
The GoLaxy Revelations: China's AI-Driven Influence Operations, with Brett Goldstein, Brett Benson, and Renée DiResta
Alan Rozenshtein, senior editor at Lawfare, spoke with Brett Goldstein, special advisor to the chancellor on national security and strategic initiatives at Vanderbilt University; Brett Benson, associate professor of political science at Vanderbilt University; and Renée DiResta, Lawfare contributing editor and associate research professor at Georgetown University's McCourt School of Public Policy.T
Sen. Scott Wiener on California Senate Bill 53
California State Senator Scott Wiener, author of Senate Bill 53--a frontier AI safety bill--signed into law by Governor Newsom earlier this month, joins Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explain the significance of SB 53
AI and Energy: What do we know? What are we learning?
Mosharaf Chowdhury, associate professor at the University of Michigan and director of the ML Energy lab, and Dan Zhao, AI researcher at MIT, GoogleX, and Microsoft focused on AI for science and sustainable and energy-efficient AI, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the energy costs of AI. T
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