The Small Church Ministry Podcast
The only podcast created for volunteers and everyday leaders in smaller congregations, this show embraces small church ministry as a place where God is already at work. Founder of Small Church Ministry and the Small Church Network, Laurie Graham Ertl shares why small churches matter—not as a scaled-down version of something bigger, but as powerful communities with their own unique strengths. Each episode offers creative solutions to real challenges with a mix of honest encouragement, leadership skills, and actionable next steps. Laurie hosts the show with a perspective shaped by decades in ministry on every side of small church life—as a volunteer, staff leader, and pastor’s spouse.
Episodes
250: Is It Wrong to Want More People to Show Up?
In this episode, Laurie talks about what happens after the numbers disappoint us. Because the problem usually isn't that we wanted more people to come. It's what we start making that number mean about the people who didn't come, the ministry we planned, ourselves, or even what God is doing.Listen in for:➡️ Why it’s okay to want more people to show up➡️ What happens when disappointme
249: What If We’ve Been Getting Empathy Wrong? | with Soul Shepherding’s Kristi Gaultiere
Most of us think we know what empathy is. But what if we’ve spent years caring for people, serving in church, and even trying to love people well without ever really learning how to receive or give it?In this conversation with Soul Shepherding’s Kristi Gaultiere, co-author of Deeply Loved, we’re talking about why empathy is so often misunderstood in the church and what could change in our relation
248: Just Because You Can Do It All, Doesn’t Mean You Should | with Charmaine Stulp
Last week, women from small churches came together for our Women Reaching Women Conference, and this week we're giving you a peek inside! In a small church, being capable can get you into trouble because when you can do a little bit of everything, it's easy to end up doing it all. In this session, Charmaine Stulp helps us get more intentional about where we invest our time, strengths, an
247: From Women’s Ministry to Reaching Women: The Ministry Is in the Conversation | with Dee Bryce
What if reaching women has a lot less to do with getting them to our activities and a lot more to do with how we walk alongside them? In this conversation with Dee Bryce, we’re rethinking women’s ministry, invitations, growth, and even what it means to minister to someone when every woman doesn’t need the same thing. Because sometimes the ministry really is in the conversation.Listen in for:➡️ The
246: Strong Personalities, Bullies & Bad Behavior: When Women Hurt Women in Church
What do you do when the difficult person is sitting three chairs down at Bible study... or leading it? Church relationships can get especially confusing when you add in grace, forgiveness, patience, keeping the peace, and that little voice that says, Good Christian women don’t make trouble. In this conversation with Jennifer Y. Afriyie, we’re talking about what happens when women hurt women in chu
245: Mental Health, Hormones, Rest & Relationships: Understanding Women in the Church | with Dr. Amy Oberg
What if there’s more going on beneath the surface than we realize? In this conversation with Dr. Amy Oberg, we’re talking mental health, hormones, rest, relationships, and why understanding our brains and bodies actually belongs in conversations about faith. And yes, we’re going there with some of the things the church has gotten wrong along the way.Listen in for:Why mental health belongs in the c
244: The Women Who Make Small Churches Work
Women are woven through almost every part of small-church ministry, and some of their biggest influence happens in relationships, not official roles. But while churches invest in ministry ideas and practical skills, we often assume the human side of ministry will just come naturally. What if that's something we can get better at too?Listen in for:➡️ Why the ministry of women is much bigger th
243: I’m Resigning as the Idea Girl for Small Churches
After years of equipping small churches with practical ideas, my thinking has shifted. Great ministry ideas matter, but they’re only one part of equipping small-church leaders and volunteers with what they need to lead well, develop people, and build healthier churches.Listen in for: ➡️ Why I’m officially resigning as the “Idea Girl” for small churches➡️ What’s changed in how I think about equippi
242: Your Church Wants to Reach New Families. So Why Aren't They Coming?
Your small church wants to reach new families. You’re planning events, finding volunteers, inviting people, and trying hard, but sometimes the families you’re hoping to reach still aren’t coming. In this episode, we’re looking underneath the outreach ideas to question some of our assumptions about today’s families, what “successful” outreach actually means, and whether trying harder is really the
241: Healthy Responses to Unhealthy Church Leadership
Churches are made up of people, and people aren't healthy all the time. So what do we do when church leadership isn't at its best? In this episode, we're talking about how to recognize unhealthy patterns, respond wisely, and become healthier ourselves along the way.Inside this episode:➡️ Why not every difficulty equals an unhealthy church➡️ Common unhealthy patterns that often get n
240: Is "We've Always Done It This Way" Keeping Your Small Church Stuck?
Most churches don't struggle because people don't care. They struggle because they're trying to solve today's challenges with yesterday's ideas.In this episode, we share one of our favorite strategies for creating a culture of learning that helps overcome resistance to change, develop volunteers, and move our churches forward. We'll also pull back the curtain on why S
239: Healthy Churches Grow by Developing Everyday People | Leading Well Conference
What if one of the most important things your church could do isn't add another program, but intentionally develop the people you already have? Recorded live at our Leading Well in a Small Church Conference, Laurie Graham Ertl shares why healthy churches don't depend on one pastor working harder. They grow as everyday people learn to build trust, take ownership, solve problems wisely, an
238: Reaching the Churched, the Unchurched & the Dechurched | with Pastor Patrick Dailey
Reaching your community starts with understanding your community. Pastor Patrick Dailey explains why the words churched, unchurched, and dechurched matter more than ever, what it means to minister in a post-Christian culture, and how small churches can create natural opportunities to build relationships with the people around them.In this episode:➡️ What it means to minister to the churched, the u
237: The Future Of The Small Church: What Has To Change? | with Dr. K. Kale Yu
The church is changing. The question is whether we're willing to change with it. In this conversation, Dr. K. Kale Yu shares why the future of the small church won't be built on better programs or bigger budgets, but on ordinary people who are equipped to live out their faith every day.In this episode:➡️ Why today's church is facing more than a decline in attendance➡️ The mistake ma
236: How to Make Your Small Church Matter in the Community
What if the future of your church isn't determined by how many people attend on Sunday, but by the difference you make the rest of the week? In this episode, Pastor Raymond Cabello shares how his church shifted from focusing inward to becoming a trusted, active presence in its community. You'll hear practical ideas for building partnerships, serving with limited resources, and helping yo
235: We've Expected Too Much from Pastors - and Underestimated Everyone Else
I've been told more than once that the real leverage point in a church is the pastor. Get the pastor healthy, and everything else will follow. I don't buy it. In this episode, we're talking about why pastors matter, why ordinary people matter too, and why healthy churches are usually built by lots of people growing, participating, and taking ownership together.In this episode, we&ap
234: Great Volunteers Need More Than Spiritual Gifts
Great volunteers aren't just gifted. They keep growing. In this episode, we're talking about why practical ministry skills matter more than many churches realize and how growing yourself may be one of the greatest gifts you can give your church.In this episode, we're talking about:Why some volunteers create more impact than othersThe difference between caring and effectivenessWhy pr
233: "I'm Just a Volunteer" Might Feel Safer. But It's a Myth.
"I'm just a volunteer."That one phrase - one we've all heard and many of us have said - reveals a bigger problem than we realize. In this episode, we're talking about what happens when churches concentrate growth, development, and learning into a handful of people while everyone else is expected to simply help. We'll explore why healthy churches aren't built by a
232: The Most Influential People in Your Church Might Not Be the Pastor
We spend a lot of time talking about pastors, church leaders, and people with titles. But what if I told you some of the most influential people in your church will never stand on a stage, lead a meeting, or sit on a board? In this episode, we're talking about the people shaping church culture every single week - and why the future of many small churches isn't sitting in the pastor'
231: Why “Take a Break” & “Just Say No” Aren’t Fixing Ministry Burnout
Burnout recovery goes deeper than just taking a break. In this episode, we’re talking about why surface-level burnout advice often isn’t enough, the deeper patterns underneath emotional exhaustion, and why so many people in ministry still feel depleted even after trying to rest, set boundaries, or “do less.”Listen in for:Why quick burnout fixes often don’t create lasting changeDeeper patterns unde
230: You Can’t Help Everyone (And It’s Exhausting)
A lot of people in ministry feel like they’re constantly choosing who to disappoint. The church needs something. The team needs something. People want access to you. Your family needs you too. And eventually, it starts feeling impossible to hold it all together without losing yourself somewhere in the process. In this episode, we’re talking about:The pressure to always be available in ministryWhy
229: Ministry Burnout Is Real (But It’s Not Inevitable)
Burnout is real … but a lot of the time, we’re not as stuck as we think we are. We say we’re overwhelmed, but we’re still saying yes, still filling gaps, still stepping in “just this once.” At some point, we have to get honest about where we actually have a choice. Because if we don’t use it, we slowly build a version of ministry we don’t even like being part of. Where we still have more choice th
228: How to Get People to Step Up at Church (Without Asking for Volunteers)
At some point, we have to admit that recruiting isn’t fixing our volunteer problem. We keep planning … and then trying to get people to care about it afterward. And that’s where things break down.But what if the real shift happens before anything is planned? When people are part of the process early, something changes. They don’t just hear the plan- they help shape it. And when that happens, owner
227: Why People Stop Volunteering at Church (And How To Fix It)
Most people don’t say no to serving - they say no to how it feels. And often, that feeling comes from how ministry is built in the first place. When a few key shifts happen, things become more relational, more sustainable, and something people actually want to be part of.In this episode:Why people step back from serving (even when they care)The 4 shifts that change how ministry feels from the insi
226: Why You’re Struggling to Get Church Volunteers (It’s Not What You Think)
Most churches assume they have a numbers problem. They’re trying to get more volunteers, when what really needs attention is the experience people walk into. It’s rarely a recruiting problem. It’s a culture issue that started long before the ask - shaped by what people have seen, heard, and come to expect from “volunteering.”In this episode:Why “we need more volunteers” is often the wrong starting
225: 4 Simple Intergenerational Ideas to Stay Connected This Summer
When everything gets inconsistent, connection matters more - not more programming. Summer might actually be the easiest time to bring people together in simpler, more natural ways. Not perfect, not polished. Just real moments across ages that help your church feel like a community again. If you try one or two of these, you might be surprised what happens.Why mixing ages can actually make summer ea
224: Maybe Sports Aren’t the Enemy (And Neither Are Vacations)
Every summer, we quietly start competing—with travel, sports, family time—and it gets exhausting. But what if the problem isn’t where people are going … It’s how we’re responding to it? People having full, busy lives isn’t a threat to the church. It might actually be the starting point for better ministry.The tension between church and real life in the summerWhy we feel frustrated (even when we do
223: What If Summer Is Exactly What Your Ministry Needs
What if the thing we keep trying to push through… is actually the thing we need? Summer changes the rhythm of everything - attendance, energy, schedules - and instead of fighting it, we might be invited to work with it. Not as a setback, but as a shift. This isn’t about lowering the bar; it’s about leading differently. Why summer always feels “off” (and why that’s not failure)The pressure to keep
222: Mistake #7: Not Giving Them an Easy Way to Quit | Church Volunteer Series
We close Stop Doing This to Volunteers: Top Mistakes Our Churches Are Making with one of the most uncomfortable conversations of all — quitting. When there’s no clear exit, service slowly turns into obligation. In this episode, we talk about why healthy ministries build off-ramps on purpose — and how giving people freedom actually builds more trust, not less.In this episode, we cover:Why every vol
221: Mistake #6: Recruiting (Yep, Just Stop It) | Church Volunteer Series
In Mistake #6 of Stop Doing This to Volunteers: Top Mistakes Our Churches Are Making, we rethink recruitment altogether. Instead of building programs and then scrambling to fill roles, what if our people shaped our ministry? This episode explores the difference between recruiting and developing - and why unique churches grow when we build around the gifts already in the room.In this episode, we co
220: Mistake #5: Planning First, Asking for Help Second | Church Volunteer Series
This episode in Stop Doing This to Volunteers: Top Mistakes Our Churches Are Making looks at how we unintentionally sideline volunteers before they even begin. We’ve been taught in leadership to make plans first and ask for help later. Turns out, that’s a great way to make people feel unnecessary, unimportant, and often unseen.In this episode, we cover:How early planning decisions limit participat
219: Mistake #4: Requiring Them to Come to Meetings | Church Volunteer Series
In Stop Doing This to Volunteers: Top Mistakes Our Churches Are Making, we’re talking about meetings - and how they often do more harm than good. We say we value people’s time, but when we gather by default instead of by necessity, purpose, or engagement, we teach people that showing up doesn’t actually matter.In this episode, we cover:Why meetings are often more about leader comfort than team sup
218: Mistake #3: Treating Volunteers Like They’re Volunteers | Church Volunteer Series
In this episode of Stop Doing This to Volunteers: Top Mistakes Our Churches Are Making, we talk about something subtle but powerful: the way our language and posture shape culture. When we treat people like “just volunteers,” we reinforce hierarchy instead of partnership, and “helping” instead of ownership.In this episode, we cover:How subtle language changes send powerful messagesHow hierarchy cr
217: Mistake #2: Making Their Jobs Easier For Them | Church Volunteer Series
In Stop Doing This to Volunteers: Top Mistakes Our Churches Are Making, this episode looks at a mistake that feels kind - but ends up weakening people and teams over time. When we over-simplify roles in the name of “helping,” we don’t just remove responsibility - we remove meaning. People don’t stay because a job is easy. They stay because it matters.In this episode, we cover:How doing too much fo
216: Mistake #1: Not Asking Them What They’d Rather Be Doing | Church Volunteer Series
This episode kicks off our Stop Doing This to Volunteers series by naming a simple but overlooked leadership habit: never revisiting where someone serves once they’ve said yes. We talk about the fear that keeps churches from inviting movement, and the belief many people carry that enjoying their role — or wanting something different — is somehow selfish instead of faithful.In this episode, we cove
215: The Digital Ministry Your Small Church Is Already Doing (And How to Do It Better) | with Leslie Kons
Your small church already has a digital ministry - whether you’ve planned for it or not. Through your website, social media, and emails, you’re constantly communicating who you are and what people can expect, sometimes clearly and sometimes unintentionally sending the wrong message. In this episode, we talk about why that matters more than we think and how small, thoughtful shifts can help your di
214: Outside the Bubble: Why Our Outreach Isn’t Working & What We’ve Been Missing
We’re sharing something special this week. Right after our Women’s Ministry for Small Churches Conference, we’re bringing you the opening mainstage session - a conversation that pushes back on the pressure-filled, program-heavy version of outreach many of us were handed.In this episode, we explore:Why traditional outreach models often don’t work in small churchesHow Jesus-centered outreach starts
213: The Church Women Who Shape Our Faith (Without Ever Holding a Title) | with Traci Mason
So much of what forms our faith doesn’t happen in programs, events, or official roles. It happens through real women who show up, listen, love, and stay. In this episode, Traci Mason and I share personal stories of women in our church lives who shaped us in lasting ways without ever being “in charge.” This is an honest, grateful conversation about influence that’s relational, faithful, and far mor
212: What Women Really Need (And Why Church Programs Keep Missing It) | with Jessica Francavilla
So much women’s ministry is built on calendars, themes, and events - and yet many women still feel unseen, overwhelmed, or disconnected. In this episode, Jessica Francavilla and I talk about what it looks like to actually discern what women need in a given season, and why programs alone often miss the deeper spiritual and emotional realities women are carrying. We share how a small, multi-generati
211: What Actually Works in Ministry With Women | with Abigail Doust
After decades of ministry in small churches — including years as a pastor’s wife — Abigail Doust has learned what truly serves women and what quietly pushes them away. In this episode, we talk honestly about moving beyond stereotypes, events-for-events’-sake, and one-person leadership, and toward ministry that helps women feel seen, known, and spiritually formed. This is a grounded, experience-ric
210: Burnout Isn’t Anyone Else’s Fault (And That’s Actually Good News For the Church)
Burnout doesn’t happen because your pastor failed, your church is unhealthy, or no one stepped up to help. It happens when we believe we have no choice and keep serving under pressure instead of agency. In this episode, we talk honestly about why burnout isn’t someone else’s fault, why that truth can feel uncomfortable at first, and why it’s also the doorway to real change. You’ll hear: The storie
209: Small Churches Got Honest: What 2025 Revealed About Pressure, Hope, & What’s Next
As we wrap up 2025, we’re looking at the conversations that truly landed with small churches - the episodes and quotes that sparked response, resonance, and even pushback. Topics like decline, pressure, money, conflict, and culture change weren’t just popular; they named real life. In this episode, we explore what that tells us. And why honesty mattered more than neat solutions.You’ll hear:What th
208: Rest This Christmas: Jesus Holds Your Church Together (Not Your Year-End Numbers) | Church Finance Series (Part 6)
This final episode in the finance series is a gentle reminder that the weight of your church’s future was never meant to sit on your shoulders. We talk about the very real year-end stress small churches feel, how Jesus measures ministry differently than we do, and why rest is an act of faithfulness, not neglect. If your church feels tired or stretched this month, this conversation will take the pr
207: When Money Gets Messy: Fear, Power, and the Conversations Small Churches Avoid | Church Finance Series (Part 5)
Money conversations in small churches get tense for reasons that go way deeper than dollars - fear, pressure, old stories, and unspoken roles all show up at the table. In this episode, we talk honestly about why finances can feel so emotional and how clearer, healthier conversations bring the room back together. It’s real, relatable, and the kind of clarity that lets everyone breathe again.You’ll
206: Rethinking Your Church Budget: From Scarcity to a Story of Possibility | Church Finance Series (Part 4)
Most small-church budgets weren’t really created; they just grew over time. Leftovers from last year, assumptions from a decade ago, and line items no one can quite explain anymore. And when a budget is shaped by nostalgia, fear, or “what we used to do,” it can make a church feel like it’s failing even when it’s not. In this episode, we explore how to see your budget as a story and how to shift th
205: Why People Aren’t Giving to Churches (And the Hopeful Shift That Brings Generosity Back) | Church Finance Series (Part 3)
This episode unpacks one of the most misunderstood issues in small churches: declining giving. It’s not that people have stopped being generous - generosity is everywhere. The real challenge is that many churches have slowly lost the connection between giving and a visible, meaningful impact. When we stop assuming stinginess and start rebuilding trust, clarity, and a real mission, generosity has a
204: Models That Work: Paid Pastors, Bi-Vocational Leaders, and Fully Volunteer Churches | Church Finance Series (Part 2)
A large part of a small church budget often goes to paying the pastor. Most small churches assume there’s only one “real” model of leadership - usually the one we’ve always known - and anything different feels like failure, pride, or danger. But there’s no single “biblical” or “more noble” model here. Healthy, vibrant churches exist in every structure: fully paid, bi-vocational, and completely vol
203: Money & Mission: Why Revenue Doesn’t Save the Church | Church Finance Series (Part 1)
This episode reframes the entire money conversation by separating the Church from the nonprofit structure that houses it. We name the fear, pressure, and assumptions that swirl around finances - and then clarify why revenue impacts the organization, not the mission. When we stop confusing the two, financial decisions get calmer, clearer, and more grounded.You’ll learn:The difference between the Ch
202: Do No Harm - Sorting Through Counselors, Coaches & Confusion (and Why It’s Worth the Effort )| with Licensed Therapist Kati Quigley
Finding the right kind of help shouldn’t feel complicated - but between long waitlists, confusing titles, and church mixed messages about therapy, it often does.In the final part of the Do No Harm series, Laurie and licensed therapist Kati Quigley talk about what makes finding help so hard, and why it’s still worth the effort. Together, they unpack the difference between a counselor, coach, and sp
201: Do No Harm - What Churches Can Do to Support Real Healing | with Licensed Therapist Kati Quigley
In small churches, we’re often the first people others turn to when life falls apart - whether we’re on staff, leading worship, teaching kids, or serving on the elder board. In Part Two of the Do No Harm series, Laurie and licensed therapist Kati Quigley talk about what churches can do to help create more emotionally healthy spaces. This isn’t about becoming counselors, giving advice, or providing
200: Do No Harm - The Hidden Damage of Pastoral and Biblical Counseling | with Licensed Therapist Kati Quigley
When the Church tries to heal what it doesn’t understand, even good intentions can cause real harm. In this first conversation of the Do No Harm series, Laurie and licensed therapist Kati Quigley talk about the unseen damage that happens when untrained pastoral or biblical counseling takes the place of trauma-informed care. It’s not about blame; it’s about awareness, wisdom, and protecting the peo
199: Church Spotlight: A Really Free Market - How One Small Church Is Reaching Its Community | with Ruth A. Popkin
In this Church Spotlight, Ruth A. Popkin shares how her small church started A Really Free Market - a ministry built on listening, not assumptions. Instead of following trends, they followed people, meeting real needs with dignity and creativity. It’s a story of simple generosity that’s reshaping how small churches think about outreach.Listen in for:How to listen to your community before deciding
198: Navigating Pastoral Transition Without Losing Your Peace (or Your People)
When a pastor retires, moves, or suddenly steps away, small churches often feel lost in the in-between. If this is hitting home for you, you’re not alone. Pastoral transitions are on the rise as more pastors retire and fewer step into ministry roles. In this episode, Laurie talks with Kari Bartkus, who served on her church’s pastoral transition team, about what it really looks like to help your ch
197: Reaching Young Families In An Older Church: What Small Churches Can Really Offer
If your church feels “too old” or “too small” to reach young families, this episode is packed with simple, practical ideas you can try this week. We’re talking about how small churches can connect with young families—not by doing more, but by showing up differently. It’s not about flashy programs or keeping up with trends. It’s about presence, warmth, and creating spaces where tired parents feel s
196: Say It Louder for the People in the Back! Women, Small Churches, & Culture Change
You don’t need a title to change the culture of your church. You’re already carrying influence—whether anyone names it or not. In this Lead Well replay, we’ll talk about how emotional health, spiritual maturity, and everyday presence shift the room around us—and why that matters more than chasing status or hustling harder.What you’ll hear in this episode:Why influence isn’t about titles, but about
195: "We’ve Always Done It This Way." The Small Church Lie That Keeps Us Stuck | with Ebonie Mukasa
Tradition can be beautiful — but when “we’ve always done it this way” becomes the default answer, it stops being wisdom and starts being a wall. In this episode, we talk about why resistant church culture burns women out, silences new ideas, and quietly drives people away. And honestly? It’s costing us more than we realize.What you’ll hear in this episode:Why “we’ve always done it this way” feels
194: Pastor. Pastor’s Wife. Volunteer. Leader. Are We Really That Different? | with Kristen Joy Humiston
In small churches, titles can build invisible walls—like pastors’ wives on one side, “regular” women on the other. Or ministry leaders here, and occasional volunteers over there. But those labels don’t tell the whole story, and they often keep us from the deep, honest community we long for. In this episode, Kristen Joy Humiston and I share from both sides of the wall, uncovering how much more we h
193: The “Strong Woman” Lie That’s Breaking Us In Small Churches | with Dee Bryce
Women have often been told to be strong, hold it together, and do it all for everyone else. But the truth? That version of “strength” is quietly breaking us — and it’s breaking our small churches too. In this episode, we name the lie, call out the pressure, and talk about a better way to live and serve.What you’ll hear in this episode:Why the “do it all” mindset isn’t holy at allHow invisible labo
192: Women, You’re Not Too Emotional (You Might Not Be Emotional Enough) | with Becky Brown
Women in small churches often feel like we have to hold it all in or keep it together for everyone else. But shutting down emotions doesn’t make us stronger — it cuts us off from one of the main ways God shapes us.In this episode, Becky Brown and I bust the myth that emotions are a weakness and show why they might be your greatest strength.What you’ll hear in this episode:Why “managing” your emoti
191: Stop Saying People Aren’t Committed - It’s Hurting Your Ministry
When people don’t show up, it’s easy to assume they don’t care. But labeling them “uncommitted” doesn’t make us stronger leaders—it just makes us bitter, burned out, and less curious. In this episode, we’re calling out the commitment myth that keeps showing up in church conversations—and talking about what it really means to lead with presence, hope, and agency. Because what we believe about peopl
190: Grace, Bullies, & Boundaries: How To Stay In The Conversation
If you listened to Episode 189, you know we tackled the hard truth about what happens when grace gets twisted into protecting bullies in the church. This episode stands on its own — but it’s also a continuation of that conversation.We’re getting real about how to handle church conflict in a healthy, biblical way … and why the space between ignoring bad behavior and asking someone to leave matters
189: When “Grace” Protects Bullies: How We Confuse Avoidance With Christlikeness
Sometimes “just be gracious” is really code for “don’t rock the boat.” But when grace gets twisted into silence, avoidance, or fear, it stops looking like Jesus. In this episode, we’re talking about the quiet damage that happens when harmful behavior is tolerated in the name of patience or peace. What do you do when you’re not in charge but can’t ignore the dysfunction? Let’s get real about bounda
188: The Small Church Pay Debate: A Question That Drives Me Crazy!
That question — “Would you keep doing your ministry if you weren’t paid?” — drives me nuts. Ministry isn’t one-size-fits-all, and neither is pay. Some serve as a career, others as a calling — and both deserve respect. This episode isn’t about right or wrong; it’s about honesty, healthy boundaries, and giving yourself permission to choose what works for your life, whether that includes a paycheck o
187: When Your Church Feels Like It’s Dying: What to Do (and What’s Still True)
If your church is shrinking, struggling, or just doesn’t look like it used to—it can feel like failure. But what if it’s not?In this episode, we talk honestly about fear, change, and what actually makes a church vibrant (hint: it’s not numbers). Because while buildings close, callings don’t—and Jesus isn’t panicking.You’ll hear:Why panic isn’t a strategy—and what to focus on insteadHow to grieve w
186: Planning Your KidMin Year | with Lauren Jackson
What if you could enter the next ministry year with clarity, unity, and a plan that actually fits your church? In this episode, I talk with Lauren Jackson from Kids Ministry Circle about how churches of any size can create a meaningful, intentional KidMin plan—and why July is the perfect time to start. Whether you're leading solo or working with a team, this conversation will give you practic
185: Finally, A Children’s Curriculum Made For Two Or More (Literally) | with Ali Thompson
What if your small church could run a meaningful, Jesus-centered children’s ministry—even with just a few kids and a couple of volunteers? In this episode, I’m talking with Group Publishing about their brand-new Sunday School curriculum, Two or More, designed specifically for smaller churches and mixed-age groups. If you've been trying to “make it work” with curriculum that doesn’t fit your c
184: Breaking Down Ministry Silos: Why Collaboration Matters in Small Churches
In this episode of The Small Church Ministry Podcast, Laurie names something many small churches deal with—but haven’t had the words for: ministry silos. You know when two ministries plan events on the same night—and no one realizes it? Or you hear about something great after it already happened? That’s a silo—and it’s more common than we think. We’ll talk about why silos form, how they quietly hu
183: Church Spotlight: Building a Church-Wide Team - Involving All Ages in Children’s Ministry | with Heather Harkins
In this inspiring episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast, host Laurie Graham talks with Heather Harkins about transforming children's ministry in a small church. Heather shares practical strategies for increasing congregational involvement, breaking down traditional ministry barriers, and creating meaningful intergenerational connections. Learn how her church reimagined children's
182: We Turned Discipleship into a Lecture: What Happened to Heart & Soul?
In this series, we’ve been naming what’s broken in church culture—and today, we’re talking about what we lost in discipleship.When did spiritual growth become just facts, checklists, and classroom settings? Jesus didn’t disciple minds—He discipled hearts. He invited people into His life. He wept. He asked questions. He modeled emotional depth, not just theological accuracy.Somewhere along the way,
181: Let’s Stop Using ‘Biblical’ to Divide the Church
This anniversary series is about naming what’s broken in church culture—and making room for leadership that looks like Jesus.In this episode, we’re rethinking the phrase “We’re a biblical church.” It’s often used to divide, not unite—and that’s a problem.We’ll cover:1. Why “we’re a biblical church” can actually drive people apart instead of uniting us.2. My personal frustration with how “biblical”
180: When Dysfunction Becomes the Culture—and No One Talks About It
Church should be a place of growth and healing—but too often, dysfunction gets disguised as “unity” or “God’s will.”In this episode of our anniversary series, we’re naming the unhealthy systems churches cling to and calling for leadership that reflects Jesus’ heart.We’ll talk about:1. True unity vs. fear-based “togetherness”2. The damage of avoiding hard conversations3. How power imbalances keep p
179: Stop Using People: Volunteers Aren’t a Workforce—They’re Your Ministry
We’re kicking off our 4-part anniversary series: “Off Script: Five Years Later & Still Saying What No One Else Will.”This series names what’s broken in church culture—and calls us to something better. From power dynamics to discipleship, we’re going there.Today’s episode tackles a common problem: treating volunteers like a workforce instead of ministry partners. This mindset leads to burnout,
178: Church Spotlight: Unity in Action: Small Town Churches Collaborating to Meet Community Needs | with Carla Adams
In this inspiring episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast, Carla Adams shares how four churches in her small Georgia town broke down denominational barriers to unite in community service and fellowship. Learn how these churches - including Baptist, Methodist, and others - overcame historical divisions to collaborate on events like Easter sunrise services, community giveaways, and women's
177: The Small Church Advantage & The Vital Role of Laity | with Teresa Stewart
In this inspiring episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast, host Laurie Graham sits down with Theresa J. Stewart, author of "The Small Church Advantage," to challenge traditional views of small churches. Theresa shares powerful insights on how smaller congregations are not deficient, but unique "test kitchens" for innovative ministry. Learn how volunteers and lay members ar
176: Getting on the Same Page: Trust & Understanding Between Pastor & Volunteers | with Doug Beutler
In this insightful episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast, host Laurie Graham sits down with Pastor Doug Butler to explore the often-challenging dynamics between pastors and church volunteers. They dive deep into building trust, understanding, and unity in small church settings, discussing how to:Overcome communication barriersEmbrace diverse personalitiesCreate a supportive church community
175: Church Spotlight: Outreach Ideas To Increase Visibility and Connect with Your Community | With Sarah Harlow
In this special episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast, host Laurie Graham talks with Sarah Harlow about creative, meaningful outreach strategies for small churches. Sarah shares innovative ways her church connects with the local community, from blessing baristas to writing appreciation cards for community leaders.In this episode:Discover how to do outreach with limited resourcesLearn simple
174: More Volunteers, Jesus-Style: Developing People, Not Just Programs
In this powerful opening session of the Small Church KidMin + Youth Ministry Conference, host Laurie Graham explores volunteer recruitment through a Jesus-centered lens. She challenges ministry leaders to shift from merely recruiting volunteers to developing people, emphasizing the importance of seeing and valuing individuals. Drawing on personal stories and biblical insights, Laurie discusses how
173: Recognizing & Connecting With Hurting Kids: Broken Families, Shifting Realities, & Small Churches | with Melissa J. MacDonald
In this powerful episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast, host Laurie Graham sits down with Melissa MacDonald to explore the critical role of recognizing and connecting with hurting kids in small church settings. Melissa shares her personal experiences as a foster parent, after-school program director, and ministry leader, offering practical insights on how to love, support, and disciple chil
172: Beyond Inclusion: Helping Every Child Find Their Place in Church | with Kim Botto
In this powerful episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast, host Laurie Graham sits down with Kim Botto to explore how small churches can create a welcoming environment for every child, especially those with neurodivergent needs or trauma backgrounds.Listen in to:Discover why 1 in 3 families with children with disabilities have left a churchLearn practical strategies for inclusion that don&apos
171: Teaching Today’s Teens: Leveraging Their Limited Availability, Perceived Apathy, & Growing Agency | with Mike Haynes
Laurie Graham and youth ministry expert Mike Haynes discuss effective strategies for engaging and teaching teenagers in small church youth groups. Key topics include: Recognizing the challenges of over-scheduled teensLeveraging teenagers' natural agencyStructuring interactive youth group timeAdapting teaching methods to match teenage cognitive developmentThe episode equips small church youth
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