
The Four Horsemen
The Four Horsemen is the premier esports industry show that reacts to important news and critical conversations across all major titles. Esports veterans Duncan "Thorin" Shields, Richard Lewis, and Christopher "MonteCristo" Mykles use their decades of experience to shed light and debate on key esports topics as they emerge. Each episode they are joined by an expert guest to help further provide insider information on the topic at hand.
Episodes
Was This The Greatest Counter-Strike Tournament EVER? (ft Mauisnake)
Richard Lewis calls the completion of the Cologne Major one of the darkest days in Counter-Strike history. Thorin and Mauisnake are not sure they agree.
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What Is The Future Of Esports?
Richard Lewis, MonteCristo, and Thorin discuss with former Fnatic GM and FACEIT exec Roald Van Buuren about the future of esports.
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Did The Saudis Give Up On Esports?
The Esports World Cup 2026 will not be in Riyadh, and the industry that couldn't stop tweeting five years ago has gone completely silent.
Thorin, Richard Lewis, and MonteCristo reunite to break down what the EWC's last-minute move to Paris actually reveals about the Saudi Arabian sportswashing project. The official line is that this was always part of the plan. The reality, per Richard's reporti
The Truth About Co-Streaming...
MonteCristo and Thorin lay out why co-streaming isn't new, and why esports never really left it.
Richard Lewis does not appear in this episode, but will return next time.
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Revealing What REALLY Happened To The Overwatch League (ft. DoA)
Richard Lewis, Thorin, MonteCristo, and DoA go deep on how the Overwatch League went from a billion-dollar promise to an industry cautionary tale — with Jeff Kaplan's Lex Fridman interview as the jumping-off point.
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New York Just Sued Valve Over CS Cases (ft. Harris Peskin)
New York just sued Valve, and Harris Peskin breaks down why the CS case gambling lawsuit could reshape how video games make money.
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What Actually Happened To 2XKO? ft. Rooflemonger)
What actually happened to 2XKO? Rooflemonger joins MonteCristo, Thorin, and Richard Lewis for a deep dive into Riot Games’ new fighter: 2XKO. We discuss its rocky launch, confusing name, use of the League of Legends IP, small roster, monetization strategy, and why expectations may have been wildly misaligned with reality... leading to layoffs. We also explore how the broader gaming industry’s shif
Should They Remove Franchising From League of Legends? (ft. Harris Peskin)
Should Riot Games remove franchising from League of Legends? In this episode of The Four Horsemen, Monte, Thorin, Richard Lewis, and Guest Horseman/esports attorney Harris Peskin break down why franchising was created, what the teams actually demanded from Riot, how Overwatch League accelerated the timeline, and why dissolving franchising today would be far more complicated—and far more damaging—t
Will All Esports Fail? (ft. Arnold Hur)
The esports model for teams is broken! We break down why the current esports ecosystem is financially broken for teams and how publisher-controlled revenue models have created deep misalignment. Featuring Gen.G CEO Arnold Hur, the conversation explores why previous league revenue models failed, how Riot’s approach in League of Legends and VALORANT differs, the rise of “moneyball” roster building,
The State of League of Legends... Can It Be Fixed? (ft. PapaSmithy)
The Four Horsemen deliver their annual State of League of Legends! PapaSmithy joins MonteCristo, Thorin, and Richard Lewis begin by discussing the LCS and its troubled recent history. They react to "The Data" that convinced Riot Games to switch the LCS to weekdays and bemoan the missed opportunities that the league ignored for years. The crew also dives into topics surrounding League of Legends as
The State Of Counter-Strike in 2025 (ft messioso)
The Four Horsemen return with their annual State of Counter-Strike special, featuring messioso (now Head of CS Operations at 100 Thieves) to break down the health of North American and global Counter-Strike in 2025. They dive into 100 Thieves’ re-entry into CS with a European-based roster, the impact of betting sponsors, and what Rain, gla1ve, and a rumored device pickup really mean for the scene.
The Twitch Viewbot Problem Is WORSE Than You Think... (ft Devin Nash)
Join esports analysts and industry veterans as they unpack the shocking demise of theScore Esports YouTube channel, dissect Twitch’s ongoing struggles, and expose the shifting power dynamics fueled by Saudi Arabia’s growing influence in competitive gaming. The Last Free Nation merch shop is open, and now includes the Four Horsemen logo t-shirt! Show off your fandom and support us and by purchasin
How Valve ERASED Billions of Dollars Overnight & Pro Players Scamming Skins
In this episode of The Four Horsemen, the hosts dive deep into the massive shake-up in the Counter-Strike skin market caused by Valve’s recent update. They unpack how Valve’s “trade-up” changes have crashed high-tier item prices, wiping out an estimated $2-3 billion in market value overnight, and explore the long history of skins gambling scandals, influencer manipulation, and the hidden economics
How Riot's Mismanagement Killed The LCS & LEC (ft RichsWrath)
In this explosive episode of The Four Horsemen, we dive deep into the biggest controversies shaking up the League of Legends esports scene. RichsWrath joins to discuss Bwipo's suspension and removal from the Worlds music video, Riot Games’ questionable decision-making, and the disastrous rebrand of the LCS. Follow our link and use code HORSEMEN to unlock 10% off your purchase at Manta Sleep! http
The History Of Scandals In Smash (ft Technicals)
In this explosive episode of The Four Horsemen, we dive deep into the scandals, controversies, and tragedies that have shaped the Super Smash Bros. and FGC communities. Joined by YouTuber Technicals, we unpack years of drama — from Saudi Arabia's esports influence to some of the darkest moments in Smash history. This discussion provides a raw, unfiltered look at the systemic problems in Smash — f
SonicFox vs Saudi Arabia: Why This Misses The Point...
In this episode of The Four Horsemen, the crew dives into some of the most controversial esports stories. The show kicks off with an in-depth investigation into the Saudi-backed Esports World Cup “Superfan” program, revealing allegations of staged crowds, favoritism toward Falcons Esports, and censorship of fan signs and chants. From there, the discussion shifts to the Fighting Game Community (FG
This Esports Tournament Owes $1 Million And Won't Pay (ft Luís Mira)
Join Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo on this explosive episode of The Four Horsemen as they deep dive into the YaLLa Compass scandal with acclaimed CS2 journalist Luis Mira. Discover the inside story of how the YaLLa Compass tournament left over a million dollars in unpaid bills, defrauded countless teams and employees, and left a gaping hole in the Counter-Strike tournament calendar. Mira'
"A True Landmark in Esports Propaganda"/ Debunking the EWC Documentary
In this episode of The Four Horsemen, Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo take a critical look at the Esports World Cup documentary, "Level Up." The discussion unpacks the propaganda elements, questionable narratives, and the broader implications for esports history and integrity. From the manipulative portrayal of Falcon's rise to the mischaracterization of the esports industry's past, no aspe
T1's BIG Apology / Caedrel Takes the Bag / Travis's Farewell
In this episode of The Four Horsemen, Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo dive into the latest controversies in the esports world. They dissect Cadrel's controversial decision to co-stream the EWC for Saudi Arabia amidst ethical concerns and the backlash from fans. The trio also breaks down T1's public apology and the fallout from Joe Marsh's comments about player contracts, examining the inner
Riot Is Now Allowing Gambling... And It's More Sinister Than You Think
In this episode of 'The Four Horsemen,' Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo delve into the complex world of Riot Games's new stance on sports betting and its implications for the esports industry. The trio also discusses the controversial moves by Saudi Arabia in the esports space, lies and censorship surrounding the Esports World Cup, the ongoing match-fixing scandals, and how these developmen
The State of StarCraft (ft Kaelaris)
In this episode of 'The Four Horsemen,' the hosts dive deep into the history and current state of the iconic esport StarCraft. They are joined by long-time commentator Kaelaris, who offers insights into the game's enduring popularity and the evolving competitive scene. The discussion covers the early days of StarCraft’s rise in Korea, the various match-fixing scandals, and the industry impact of S
The EG Files Part 3: Incompetence, Favoritism, and Gross Mismanagement
In this explosive episode of 'The Four Horsemen,' hosts Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo dive deep into the drama and shenanigans surrounding Evil Geniuses under the management of PEAK6. They discuss everything from the controversial rebranding, the appalling treatment of players and staff, to the financial gymnastics done with the Wolverhampton partnership. They also scrutinize Nicole LaPoi
How Millions of Dollars Evaporated From Esports Overnight
In this episode of The Four Horsemen, Thorin, Richard Lewis, and MonteCristo dive deep into several major eSports controversies. They begin with Team Liquid's fallout with Honda following a controversial tweet from one of their Brazilian Rainbow Six players and discuss the broader implications and responses within the community. The conversation then shifts to the surprising stand taken by the Geo
The Zeus & T1 Controversy Explained (ft Barry Lee)
In this episode of The Four Horsemen, Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo are joined by Barry Lee of Evolved Talent to dissect the recent T1 Zeus agency drama that has captivated the esports scene. Barry offers an inside perspective on the contractual conflicts and accusations that arose during Zeus's free agency. The discussion also explores T1's distinctive K-pop style marketing strategies, L
Riot Allows Win Trading Again... The Glaring Issues At TFT Worlds (ft Frodan)
Welcome back to The Four Horsemen! In this episode, Thorin, Richard Lewis, and MonteCristo dive into the recent win trading scandal in Team Fight Tactics (TFT) esports, following the announcement of a new esports circuit. They are joined by Frodan, who provides an in-depth analysis of the situation. The discussion covers the suspected collusion involving Chinese players, the implications on the ga
Dirty Money Behind Esports in 2025
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo discuss updates on Saudi involvement in esports, the expanded partnership between Riot Games and the Esports World Cup (EWC), influencers like Doublelift, Tyler1, Nadeshot, and Thebausffs being involved with the EWC, why Saudi Arabia's human rights record has gotten worse, updates on the "Esports Olympics," and more.EXPRESSVPN now sponsors The Four Horsemen!
How This CEO Stole Millions From His Own Esports Org (ft Neil_M)
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo are joined by Neil "Neil_M" Murphy, former manager of Into the Breach, to discuss the spectacularly scandalous implosion of Into the Breach, the shocking tweets from ITB CEO SlayTheMinotaur, the mishandling of funds, what happened to the sticker money from the final CS:GO Major, and more.EXPRESSVPN now sponsors The Four Horsemen! Get FOUR free months of servi
The State of League of Legends / Sit Down With G2's CEO Stilgar
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo are joined by Alban "G2 Stilgar" Dechelotte, the CEO of G2 Esports, to discuss the state of League of Legends, the current outlook for sponsorships within the scene, the impact that massive co-streamers like Caedrel and Kameto have on the game, Riot Games and their relationship with professional teams, G2's ability to set the tone for other teams to follow, a
How The TikTok Ban Affects Esports & Riot / The State of Last Free Nation
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo discuss the ban on TikTok and how it could affect Riot Games, the current state and bright future of Last Free Nation, evidence that the LEC is viewbotting their YouTube channel in a silly way, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our
The Declining State of Counter-Strike... (ft Jason Lake)
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo are joined by Jason Lake to discuss the state of Counter-Strike going into 2025, the future of Complexity, Valve's new rules regarding Majors and qualifying for them, difficulties that CS teams continue to face, and more.Get 50% off FACTOR meals at https://www.factormeals.com/50horsemen with code horsemen50. High-quality, never-frozen meals delivered to your
Why the New LoL League (LTA) is Worse Than You Think (ft Zaboutine)
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo are joined by Thomas "Zaboutine" Si-Hassen to discuss the transition from LCS, CBLOL, and LLA into the LTA, the confusing status of 100 Thieves in 2024, how Riot borrowed ideas from Flashpoint in the new LTA format, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for
How This Esports Org Scammed Everyone / BLEED Fraud Exposed (ft Kassad)
We are joined by Aleksandar "kassad" Trifunović to discuss the shady dealings and broken promises of the BLEED organization, including misdeeds done to their CS2, VALORANT, and Mobile Legends divisions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for
The Shady Truth of Esports Orgs / The Future of LoL Esports (ft Danan)
Danan Flander joins to discuss changes coming to American League of Legends esports, the downfall of Immortals in the LCS, shady business dealings made by NRG, sloppy communication from Riot in regards to Tier 2 competition, why Saudi Arabia is likely to become even more involved with Riot, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsW
Is Valve ruining Counter-Strike? Exposing Conflicts of Interest (ft messioso)
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo are joined by Graham "messioso" Pitt, currently the GM for Complexity CS, to discuss upcoming changes being made by Valve to professional Counter-Strike. Main topics include Team Falcons and Saudi conflicts of interest, difficulties that teams are facing with securing visas, teams' perspectives on the upcoming changes, the one hire that we recommend Valve mak
The Sad Truth of Esports Journalism / Why ESPN Esports Failed (ft Kevin Hitt)
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo are joined by journalist Kevin Hitt to discuss the state of esports journalism. Topics include the history of esports journalism, recent involvement from Saudi Arabia especially in relation to Rolling Stone and the Esports Awards, the reasons why ESPN Esports failed, how the recent Dr. Disrespect scandal was handled, Chris Greeley's subtweet on behalf of Riot
How esports sold out | Saudi money floods the industry
Pride month has begun and so has the corporate hypocrisy in the esports industry as Saudi money continues to increase its control over the industry with the imminent arrival of the Esports World Cup. Andrew "Zyori" Campbell, former DotA caster and esports personality, joins to discuss the corporate virtue signaling, the increasing level of sportswashing, and the cuts of caster rates for DotA 2 co
Riot Vanguard Disaster - Is a Kernel-Level Anti-Cheat safe? (ft Yasukeh)
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo are joined by retired former Challenger player Yasukeh to discuss Riot Vanguard: Riot Games's anti-cheat used for VALORANT, League of Legends, and Teamfight Tactics. Further topics include the intrusiveness levels of kernel-level anti-cheat systems, Riot's claims on why Vanguard is needed, Reddit Moderators deleting comments and threads discussing Vanguard, a
The EG Files Part 2: In the Trenches at EG ft. Phillip Aram
Richard Lewis, Thorin, MonteCristo, and guest Phillip Aram continue the mini-series "The EG Files" by discussing Phillip's history with Evil Geniuses, the successes and struggles of their iconic DOTA team, the effects of the org splitting from Twitch and Amazon, difficulty in gaining sponsors and investment, the reasons why Peak6 was eventually chosen to support the org, and more.
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The EG Files Part 1: Evil Origins and the Rise of Alex Garfield
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo begin the mini-series "The EG Files" by discussing how Evil Geniuses was formed, the team's time in Quake, Starcraft 2, and early Counter-Strike, Alex Garfield's cut-throat rise in power, EG's spike in popularity with signing players like HuK & IdrA, their handling of media, their Twitch era, and more.
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Esports Winter RAGES ON | A storm of stickers and Saudis (ft Tomi)
We check in with Tomi "Lurppis" Kovanen on the status of "esports winter" as we head into the second year of budget cuts, layoffs, lack of sponsorship interest, and more. The Horsemen discuss the changes in the landscape, particularly the money flowing in from the Saudi government through ESL FACEIT Group and the surprising sticker returns from the Paris Major in Counter-Strike. They touch on the
OpTic SUES Activision / H3CZ and Scump's industry-changing gamble (ft. Harris Peskin)
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo are joined by Harris Peskin of ESG Law to discuss the lawsuit filed by H3CZ and Scump against Activision-Blizzard and their alleged monopoly of Call of Duty Competition. The discussion also delves into the past and potential future of organized esports competition, the monumental impact this case could make on U.S. law, esports and video games in general, why
MASS LAYOFFS at Riot Games and Activision Blizzard (ft. Foxdrop)
Richard Lewis, Thorin, and MonteCristo are joined by Dan "Foxdrop" Wyatt to discuss the mass layoffs at Riot Games & Activision Blizzard, the layoffs' effects on the LEC as a product, experiences working with people at Riot and Activision Blizzard, and the bleak future of working in the esports industry.
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ABANDONING LCS: Evil Geniuses and Golden Guardians leave LoL (feat. Danan)
Evil Geniuses and Golden Guardians have suddenly left the LCS, League of Legends' North American professional league, leaving only 8 team remaining out of the original 10 franchise slots. Former GM of Golden Guardians and long-time esports manager Danan Flander joins the Horsemen to discuss how we arrived at this moment and what it means in the broader context of the ongoing "esports winter." Is t
END of the Overwatch League? / Teams paid $6m to LEAVE (feat. Harsha)
The Overwatch League suffered another wave of layoffs this week and news broke that Activision-Blizzard will pay teams $6 million to abandon their franchise slots at the end of the current season. It appears that the era of the Overwatch League has ended, so Harsha Bandi, former professional coach for the San Francisco Shock, Vancouver Titans, and Houston Outlaws, joins the show to discuss the hig
Will Riot KILL the LCS by removing the path to pro? (feat. Phillip Aram)
Riot has eliminated the requirement for the North American LCS teams to field amateur rosters, which left many questioning the future development of talent in the region. LCS Players' Association leader Phillip Aram joins the horsemen to discuss the group's demands to Riot and the possibility of a player walk-out at the start of the Summer Split. The discussion focuses on Riot's lies to the LCSPA
Troubles at the LAST CS:GO Major / Putting BLAST on blast? (feat. kassad)
Aleksandar "kassad" Trifunović, professional Counter-Strike coach and analyst, joins the Horsemen to discuss the issues with the talent announcement and the lead-up to the final CS:GO Major hosted by BLAST. They discuss the competitive integrity issues that plagues the qualifying RMRs, the lack of key historic talent at the event to close out the Global Offensive era, the puzzling addition of Jake
The esports bubble POPS / Where do we go now? (feat. Devin Nash)
Devin Nash, former CLG CEO, joins the show to discuss the onset of esports winter and the looming issues with the broader industry. The Four Horsemen trace the failures of monetization that brought us to this point, as well as the zealous over-investment that caused the esports bubble. They discuss how viewership was assumed to be exponentially increasing, the inflation of player salaries, the lac
How did EG FAIL their star player Danny? (feat. RichsWrath)
Evil Geniuses' star League of Legends player Kyle "Danny" Sakamaki suffered severe stress and an inability to continue playing during EG's playoff run in the LCS in Summer Split and Worlds 2022. New reporting by Richard Lewis and Thorin reveals systemic neglect by CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson and other members of EG's upper management. Guest horseman Richard "RichsWrath" Wells, League of Legends pr
The State of Esports Business: Is 2023 the esports winter? (feat. lurppis)
Tomi "lurppis" Kovanen, co-managing director of Immortals Gaming Club and former professional player, joins the the Horsemen to review 2022 through the esports business lens. They discuss the imminent "esports winter," the state of sponsorships in a potential recession, the shift from franchising to the new VALORANT model, which esports are healthiest in 2023, and more.
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The State of LoL: 2022 in Review / LCS schedule change (feat. Rich)
Rich (Rich'sWrath), player agent and founder of H2K, joins the the Horsemen to review 2022 in LoL esports, discuss the effects of the recent FTX debacle, possible reasoning behind the LCS 2023 schedule, updates for the LEC format, the status of player welfare, wishes for 2023, and more.
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The State of CS:GO: 2022 in Review (feat. YNk)
Janko "YNk" Paunović, broadcast analyst and coach, joins the the Horsemen to review 2022 in CS:GO esports, discuss the current meta issues with the game, whether Counter-Strike should eliminate pistol rounds and move to MR12, the ESIC controversies, the purchase of ESL and Faceit by the Saudi Arabian sovereign wealth fund, changes that need to be made to the competitive calendar, wishes for 2023,
G2 Carlos parties with Andrew Tate / Esports ethics (feat. Lauren Flanagan)
Lauren Flanagan, agent from OneTeam Partners, joins the show to discuss Carlos from G2's party with Andrew Tate, the esports industry's reaction to the tweets, the ramifications of the posts on the G2 org, the major ethical issues that continue to plague the industry, the lack of ethical money in the space, and more.
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DDK and Sean Gares quit casting / Why casters leave esports (feat. Uber)
Mitch "Uber" Leslie, Overwatch League caster, joins the show to discuss the surprising casting resignation of veteran commentators Sean Gares and DDK, the state of VALORANT casting as a whole, why casters feel that no esport offers career advancement, what companies need to do to retain casters, and more.
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TSM coach Peter Zhang fired for conflict of interest (feat. Barry Lee)
Barry Lee, former agent and current advisor to Evolved Talent, joins the show to discuss the allegations against TSM coach Peter Zhang, the role of player agents in the broader League of Legends and esports ecosystems, conflicts of interest in esports, and more.
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LCS Players' Association Strengthens / Future union? (feat. Phil Aram)
Phillip Aram, executive director of the LCS Players' Association, joins the show to discuss the announcement of the LCS PA's new naming, image, and likeness deal with the players, their partnership with OneTeam, the state of the LCS PA, their future plans, and more.
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The ESL/FACEIT merger; Saudi esports investment (feat. Mik Attisani)
Mik Attisani, CBO of FACEIT, joins the show to discuss the merger of FACEIT and ESL, the investment from Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund (PIF), the new company's goals in Counter-Strike and other titles, the focus on grassroots initiatives, the state of monetization in esports, and more.
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VALORANT's NA LCQ DISASTER; What went wrong? (feat. George Geddes)
George Geddes, reporter for the Upcomer, joins the show to discuss the events surrounding the VALORANT North American Last Chance Qualifier (LCQ) tournament, the PC and internet issues at the event, the COVID testing problems, tournament rescheduling, and more.
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HUNDEN's Heroic Hijinks; Cheating Scandal Continues (feat. DAVEY)
David "DAVEY" Stafford, professional CS:GO player, joins the show to discuss Hunden's cheating using the coach bug, Heroic's attempts to NDA their players, Hunden accusing his players of knowing about the cheating while it was occurring, the ongoing ESIC investigation, and more.
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ANALYZING Activision-Blizzard's Discrimination Lawsuit (feat. Krista Hiner)
Krista Hiner, lawyer for ESG Law, joins the show to discuss Activision-Blizzard's gender discrimination lawsuit filed by the state of California, the state of sexual harassment across the video game industry, the ramifications of the government lawsuit, and ways to limit discrimination in the future.
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Riot's NEW Press Problems and Spineless Esports Media (feat. Jacob Wolf)
Jacob Wolf, journalist for Dot Esports, joins the show to discuss Riot's history of press relations, Travis Gafford's recent video on pre-submitted questions for press conferences, and Riot's PR policies.
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What went WRONG with the CSGO RMRs? (feat. GoMeZ)
Chris "GoMez" Orfanellis, manager of Order and expert on team management and game network issues, joins the show to discuss the rulings and competitive integrity of the EU and CIS RMR tournaments in CSGO.
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What is the ESPORTS CERTIFICATE? (feat. Sebastian Park)
Sebastian Park, founder of the Esports Certification Institute and former general manager of esports team Clutch Gaming, joins the show to discuss the goals of his project, the Esports Certificate, hiring problems in the esports industry, and more.
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VALORANT 100 Thieves coach Frost sanctioned by Riot (feat. Sideshow)
Josh "Sideshow" Wilkinson, OWL caster and VALORANT streamer, joins the show to discuss Riot's punishment against 100Thieves coach Frost for berating a tournament admin about his team's server and ping in their VALORANT match against Immortals.
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What do the OWL and CDL layoffs MEAN? (feat. DoA)
Erik "DoA" Lonnquist, former OWL caster, joins the show to discuss the recent OWL and CDL layoffs by Activision-Blizzard and what they mean for the future of those leagues.
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Should LCS REMOVE player REGION LOCKING? - (feat. Danan)
Danan, the general manager of the Golden Guardians LCS team, joins the show to discuss player region-locking in the LCS and whether it should be removed.
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