Face-Off: The U.S. vs China
Face-Off: The U.S. vs China is an inside look at the turbulent relationship between the world's two superpowers, the two men in charge, and the vital issues that affect us all. Hosted by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Jane Perlez, former New York Times Beijing bureau chief, and featuring Professor Rana Mitter of the Harvard Kennedy School, each episode examines what's at stake in the ongoing rivalry. The podcast is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions.
Episodes
Introducing Foreign Policy's The Hidden Economics of Remarkable Women
We’re hard at work on Season 4 of Face-Off. And we have some great episodes in the works, but while we’re in production I wanted to share an episode from a different podcast that I thought you might enjoy….
When people discuss environmental solutions, they often mention its impact on our lives. This can include ensuring parts of the planet remain inhabitable in the face of extreme temperatures, m
Trump’s War, Xi’s Opportunity: Ambassador Nicholas Burns on Iran’s Hot War
As this episode is published - on April 21, 2026 - it’s far from clear which direction the war between the US and Iran is headed. Even so, America’s reputation around the world is in decline, to say the least.
Trump is unrestrained. He’s invaded Venezuela. Started a war like no other with Iran. Soured relations with traditional US allies in Europe. And not to mention the heavy tariffs he’s impo
Climbing the Great Firewall: Freedom, Censorship, and China’s Internet
In this episode, we take you inside the Chinese internet.
China is currently home to the world's most sophisticated, far-reaching internet censorship regime. Chinese censors are trained to comb the web for off-limits words and phrases. Offending posts often disappear into thin air. And entire US-based platforms like Google, Youtube, Instagram, and Amazon, not to mention the New York Times are al
How Far Will China Go for Iran?
This week: China and Iran.
The two countries have close ties and, yet, while China initially condemned the US-Israeli war on Iran, the Chinese government has stayed mostly quiet even as the bombing continues.
Meanwhile the Iranian government is doubling down on this friendship. As of this taping, Iran has opened up the Strait of Hormuz to Chinese ships.
To learn more about what this all mean
Stolen in China, Raised in Texas: Twins Caught Between Two Superpowers
In this episode, Journalist Barbara Demick talks with Jane about her latest book Daughters of the Bamboo Grove. It’s the story of Chinese twins separated as toddlers. One twin grows up with her family in rural China. The other twin is adopted by an American family in Texas. It’s a haunting, moving narrative about the harsh repercussions of the One-Child policy, and the realities of life in rural C
The Black Box: Inside China’s Military Mind
We’re back! We’ll be publishing five brand new episodes of Face-Off bi-weekly starting today. In this episode, we welcome back Zhou Bo, a retired colonel in the People’s Liberation Army.
Xi Jinping has unleashed a massive purge of the Chinese army, the biggest since the early days of Communist China. Nearly three dozen senior generals have been demoted or disappeared. Almost all have been accuse
The Chip Whisperer
Jensen Huang built the company that powers the AI revolution—and he's playing both Washington and Beijing. The Taiwan-born Nvidia CEO holds the keys to artificial intelligence. But whose side is he really on? Inside the rise of tech's most important power broker.
Guest: Tripp Mickle New York Times Tech Reporter
Book Recommendations
The Thinking Machine: Jensen Huang, Nvidia and the World’s Mo
The Charm Offensive That Isn't
As Trump trashes American soft power, can China fill the void? A top Chinese academic explains why Beijing struggles to win hearts and minds and why being feared isn't the same as being loved. Plus: How American influencers are going viral in China.
Guest: Da Wei, Professor, Tsinghua University
Book Recommendations
Sparks: China’s Underground Historians and their Battle for the Future by Ian
Clash on the High Seas
High-seas drama as Chinese warships hunt Filipino fishing boats in their own waters. Beijing is testing America's oldest Pacific ally with dangerous games of maritime chicken. With Philippine politics in flux, can Manila hold the line or will China fracture another US alliance?
Guest: Marites Vitug, Filipino Journalist & Author, editor-at-large for Rappler and chair of the Journalism for Nation B
The Rugby Gambit
The strangest geopolitical deal you've never heard of: Australia trades rugby league spots for an agreement not to make an agreement with China. Papua New Guinea's players get to compete Down Under and in return, China gets locked out of a strategic Pacific island. Sports diplomacy at its most serious.
Guest: Oliver Nobetau, Papua New Guinea Government Lawyer & Fellow at the Lowy Institute
B
Rise of the Robots
"If I was the U.S., I would be terrified."
We report from a 1,500+ robot convention in Beijing, and an American robotics expert who's toured China's factories reveals how China is winning the robot race. From assembly lines to hospital wards, humanoid robots are everywhere—and America is falling behind.
Guest: Alberto Moel, Robotics Scientist, Professor of Practice in Finance at the Univers
The Xi Factor
Jake Sullivan has sat across from Xi Jinping more times than almost any American official—from Xi's rise in 2013 to their last face-off in Beijing. What's it like negotiating with the world's most powerful dictator? Sullivan reveals Xi's ego, tactics, and how a relationship that started with cautious optimism turned into open hostility.
Guest: Jake Sullivan, Former U.S. National Security Advise
China's Arms Race
China is outbuilding America's navy and beating us in hypersonic missiles. Xi has purged corrupt generals to create a military machine loyal only to him. Can China's forces actually win a war? We break down the PLA's transformation from paper tiger to potential superpower.
Guest: Zhou Bo, Retired Senior Colonel in the People’s Liberation Army (https://ciss.tsinghua.edu.cn/info/CFExperts/1212)
Generation Burnout
China's youth were supposed to lead the nation to glory. Instead, they're lying flat, embracing "garbage time," and quietly rebelling against a system that promised everything and delivered economic stagnation. In this episode of Face-Off - our first of Season 3 (!) - we get inside the psychology of China's disillusioned generation.
Guest: Chang Che, Chinese-American Writer (https://changnche.co
Season 3 Trailer
In our third season of Face-Off: The US vs China, we’ll explore some of the biggest issues dividing these global powers today: Trump and Xi Jinping, AI, China’s growing military might, and also… robots.
Season 3 of Face-Off: US vs China begins Tuesday, November 18th. Join us.
Face-Off is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions.
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THE GREATER WAGER EPISODE 5: The Break-Up
THE GREAT WAGER Episode 5. The break-up: Richard Nixon’s great wager reverberates from the '70s to today
While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present an encore presentation of The Great Wager, a five-part series about Richard Nixon’s top-secret plan to go to China, befriend China, and change the balance of power in the Cold War.
This is the series finale: Episode 5.
THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 4: Shared Secrets
THE GREAT WAGER Episode 4. Shared secrets: How The U.S. and China worked together to spy on the Soviet Union
While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present an encore presentation of The Great Wager, a five-part series about Richard Nixon’s top-secret plan to go to China, befriend China, and change the balance of power in the Cold War.
This is Episode 4.
The relationsh
THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 3: When Nixon Met Mao
THE GREAT WAGER Episode 3. Grip and grin: When Nixon met Mao
While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present an encore presentation of The Great Wager, a five-part series about Richard Nixon’s top-secret plan to go to China, befriend China, and change the balance of power in the Cold War.
This is Episode 3.
The news of Nixon’s trip to China is public, and he’s gettin
THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 2: Plots & Private Planes
THE GREAT WAGER Episode 2: Plots and private planes: How Henry Kissinger pulled off a secret trip to China
While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present an encore presentation of The Great Wager, a five-part series about Richard Nixon’s top-secret plan to go to China, befriend China, and change the balance of power in the Cold War.
This is Episode 2.
Nixon and his
THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 1: Richard Nixon's "Crazy" Idea
THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 1: Richard Nixon's 'crazy' idea: Make befriending the Chinese Communist Party his legacy
With money, power and political standing at stake, America’s relationship with China is tenuous. But it wasn’t always that way.
The Great Wager is a five-part series that tells the story of the extraordinary encounter between Richard Nixon and Mao Zedong in 1972 that brought these t
Criss-Crossing China
In this bonus episode of Face-Off Jane speaks with former ambassador to China, Nicholas Burns. They discuss Ambassador Burns’ encounters with the Chinese leader Xi Jinping, his meetings with American CEOs, and his travels to remote places in China.
BOOK RECOMMENDATIONS:
To Change China, by Jonathan D. Spence
The Private Life of Chairman Mao, by Zhi-Sui Li
Chip Wars, by Chris Miller
Learn mo
From Mao to Xi Jinping: A Conversation with Orville Schell
In a special bonus episode recorded live at the Asia Society, host Jane Perlez speaks with journalist and scholar Orville Schell about his 50 years covering Chinese leaders and their American counterparts. They attempt to answer the question: how did we get here?
Recorded live at The Asia Society on April 8, 2025
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Soulmates: Xi and Putin
China and Russia have rarely been friendly - until now. Xi and Putin have been open about their bromance, exchanging gifts, sharing lavish dinners, even celebrating a birthday together. Are the two dictators, Xi and Putin, aiming to forge a new arrangement in the world that diminishes the traditional role of the United States? Our guest, Lyle Goldstein, former professor at US Naval War College, an
AI Superpower: US or China?
China’s leader, Xi Jinping, has given China five years to dominate Artificial Intelligence. He believes China must accomplish this goal in order to become the world’s tech giant. But the United States is doing everything it can to stop China from reaching its goal. Can Washington stop US and European advanced chips from reaching China? It seems not, as the arrival of DeepSeek shows. Will AI develo
Electric Vehicles
Back in 2015 the Chinese government declared that they would become the world leader in EVs by 2025. Major car companies scoffed. Who wants an EV? Today, China automakers have surpassed Japan, Germany and the US to become the number one exporter of cars. A record number of Chinese EVs were sold globally last year. How did China become the global leader in EVs? We’ll talk with the man who literally
Feminist Rebels
China’s leader, Mao Zedong famously said that “Women hold up half the sky.” But these days it doesn’t feel that way in China. Unfair marriage rules, difficulties getting a divorce, barriers to owning property and many more restrictions are challenging women to speak out, and act. We’ll hear about the Chinese “leftover women” who are veering from the traditional path and about the Chinese feminists
Hollywood and China
Motion pictures first came to China in 1896. China was one of the first countries to screen the Lumiere brother’s “western shadowplays” as they were called. By the 1930’s Shanghai was known as the Hollywood of the East.
That all changed after the founding of the People’s Republic. Western films were eventually allowed back into China but it wasn’t until the release of the American epic, Titanic
TikTok: What Now?
More than 170 million Americans are entertained, informed and earn big bucks from the Chinese-owned app, TikTok. Now their relationship with TikTok is in mortal danger, to say the least. American politicians seem to be able to agree on one thing: TikTok is bad. What happens now, and how did Americans get hooked on TikTok in the first place. Trump used TikTok to great affect in his campaign. What’s
Journalists in China
There are few American journalists reporting from inside China today. But that has not always been the case. In fact, American journalists in China freely reported on one of the biggest stories of recent history: the Chinese army’s massacre of protestors in Tiananmen Square in 1989. In this episode, we talk to Richard Roth, a CBS correspondent who was there during the 1989 protests. We feature Lin
Two Strongmen
Trump has praised Xi Jinping in the past. He’s also slapped tariffs on China. What does the return of Trump mean for China? Economic rivalry for sure. Possible war over Taiwan? A battle over AI dominance and confrontation over China’s rapidly expanding military force, also for sure. How will Trump stop China from usurping America’s place on the global stage?
Guest: Minxin Pei, Claremont College p
Season 2 Trailer
Season 2 of Face-Off: US vs China begins Tuesday, February 11.
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The New Cold Wars: A Conversation with David Sanger
In this bonus episode, Jane Perlez sits down with New York Times national security and White House correspondent David Sanger. In this candid conversation, they talk about his new bestseller: New Cold Wars: China's Rise, Russia's Invasion, and America's Struggle to Defend the West. Plus they discuss Sanger's views on where the US - China relationship is headed, how he worries about the friendship
Taiwan
Will the United States and China go to war over an island of 24 million people nearly 6,500 miles from California? Why is this a possibility? What is the history and significance of Taiwan to America and China?
Guest: Lyle Goldstein, former professor US Naval College, now at Brown University. Taiwanese expert, Syaru Shirley Lin, founder of the think tank, Capri.
An essay by Lyle Goldstein on how
China’s Fortunes
How the Chinese economic downturn is affecting all kinds of people. How real estate meltdown, with enough unfinished empty apartments to fill the population of Germany, is at the center of it all. How tech entrepreneurs are mysteriously disappearing, and how college graduates don’t want to work.
Guests: Keyu Jin, London School of Economics, author of New China Playbook; Elsie Chen, a member of Ch
Espionage
Two young CIA agents were flown to northern China in 1952, part of a bizarre Cold War operation to overthrow Mao Zedong. The plane crashed. The two Americans were arrested, and jailed for 20 years. We fast forward to today and turn the tables: How does China spy on the US now? Who is ahead in the fight over the new technologies?
Guests: John DeLury, author, Agents of Subversion; Nigel Inkster, for
The Relationship
Xi Jinping and Joe Biden met on a basketball court in China in 2011 when they were vice presidents. They later toasted each other in Washington. They’ve spent many hours together. Much has changed. Can they hold the center together?
Guest: Minxin Pei, Chinese born professor of government Claremont McKenna College; author of Surveillance State and other books on China.
Jane’s first podcast abou
Cultural Threads
From his studio in Boston, Yo-Yo Ma tells us how music eases tensions between American and Chinese people, even as Washington and Beijing are at each other’s throats.
Guests: Yo Yo Ma; Hai Ye Ni, principal cellist, Philadelphia Symphony Orchestra
Sound design, original score, mixing and mastering by Rowhome Productions.
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Doomsday
China is rapidly expanding its nuclear arsenal even as arms control treaties are shredded. Can China and the U.S. come to the table and agree to nuclear arms control accords? Should Artificial Intelligence control nuclear weapons?
Guest: Tong Zhao; Chinese born nuclear expert now at Carnegie China in DC
Sound design, original score, mixing and mastering by Rowhome Productions.
Learn more about
Apple in China
Apple, one of the world’s most valuable companies, depends on China, America’s biggest adversary, to manufacture its iPhones. Apple employs millions of contract workers in China. Is this marriage heading for the rocks? What will Apple and China do to keep their marriage intact?
Guests: Prof. Willy Shih, Harvard Business School; Wayne Ma, tech reporter, The Information
Sound design, original score
Spies in the Sky
An American surveillance plane and a Chinese fighter jet collide near the Chinese coast in 2001. Smart diplomacy by a former American Navy Admiral results in the release of two dozen American airmen and women from detention in China. Today, tensions between the countries are much higher, their planes are flying within feet of each other. There are fears a similar collision could result in war.
Introducing: Face Off
Our trailer features jaw-dropping audio from the cockpit of an American spy plane flying over the South China Sea. It’s early 2001. A Chinese fighter jet is getting perilously close to the slow moving American plane. Some weeks later, a collision occurred. What happened next? Listen to episode 1 of Face Off. Our trailer also dazzles with interview clips from our episodes covering tech, spies, the
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