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Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership | Fundraising | Board Development | Communications
Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership | Fundraising | Board Development | Communications
Nonprofits Are Messy is a podcast for nonprofit leaders tackling the everyday challenges of leadership, fundraising, governance, communications, and organizational growth. Hosted by Joan Garry and Glennda Testone, each episode features candid conversations, practical advice, and honest stories to help listeners lead with greater confidence through the inevitable messiness of nonprofit work.
Episodes
Ep 263: How Nonprofit Teams Build Healthy Conflict with Priya Parker
Most of us read conflict on a team as a sign something has gone wrong. Priya Parker thinks we have it backwards, and she has spent twenty years watching what happens to the groups that get this right and the ones that don't.
Ep 262: How to Be a Force for Good When Your Tank Is Empty (with Sam Horn)
Some weeks the news takes something out of you and doesn't put it back. Author Sam Horn has spent a year with people who kept going anyway, and she draws a line between three kinds of people that will make you check which one you've been.
Ep 261: What Would Dolly Do? Leadership Lessons from a Life of Giving
Glennda Testone, CEO of Nonprofit Leadership Lab, did not grow up on Dolly Parton. A year and a half of full immersion later, she came away with three lessons about Dolly Parton philanthropy that every nonprofit leader should hear.
Ep 260: How Can Nonprofits Do Better Good? Hint: Doing More Isn’t the Answer.
What if greater nonprofit impact isn’t about doing more? Glennda Testone talks with Better Good author Scott M. Curran about focusing on what works and using what you already have more intentionally.
Ep 259: Nonprofit Unions: What Leaders, Staff, and Boards Need to Know with Bev Tillery
For many nonprofit leaders, unionization can feel deeply personal. Explore the questions, challenges, and realities of nonprofit unionization, and how leaders, staff, and boards can navigate the process while preserving trust, culture, and their org’s values.
Ep 258: Burn on vs. Burnout: A Conversation With Jim Collins About What Matters in Life
What if the goal isn’t simply to avoid burnout, but to learn how to burn on? Jim Collins joins Joan Garry to explore why some leaders stay energized for decades, what it means to stay “in frame,” and how to build a life around what matters most.
Ep 257: Presence ≠ Power: What Nonprofit Leaders Need to Know with Rashad Robinson
Most nonprofits know how to get people to pay attention. Fewer know how to turn that attention into lasting change. In this conversation, Rashad Robinson shares what makes the difference.
Ep 256: What are Corporate Sponsors Really Looking for From Nonprofits? with Mariah Monique
Some sponsorship conversations turn into long-term partnerships. Others quietly disappear after the first meeting. What's the difference?
Ep 255: Managing Across Generations: What Nonprofit Leaders Need to Know with Jason Burlingame
Managing a team that spans five generations isn't a Gen Z problem. It's a leadership challenge. In this episode, I sit down with Jason Burlingame to talk about the workplace tensions that seem to resurface with every generation and what it takes to lead through them.
Ep 254: Building Belonging When DEI Feels Like a Four-Letter Word with Dr Kiki Ramsey
I sat down with Dr. Kiki Ramsey, positive psychologist and CEO of the Positive Psychology Coaching and Diversity Institute, to have an honest conversation about DEI that nonprofit leaders need to hear right now. We’re covering what’s changing and how nonprofits can keep building belonging even in a hostile climate.
Ep 253: Still Figuring It Out: An Honest Take on People Pleasing and Leadership
For a long time, Glennda Testone’s people-pleasing nature shaped – and sometimes complicated – her leadership. In this honest, personal solo episode, she shares her journey from people pleaser to recovering people pleaser. Plus, five practical strategies for leading well when you’re wired to make everyone happy.
Ep 252: CRM Matchmaking: How to Ensure the Right Fit for Your Nonprofit with Julia Gackenbach
Think of finding the right CRM like matchmaking – it takes time, self-awareness, and knowing what you actually need versus what just looks good on paper. Glennda Testone sits down with Julia Gachenbach of DonorPerfect to walk through the do’s and don’ts of the matchmaking process to help your organization find the right fit.
Ep 251: Reimagining Nonprofits: The Uncomfortable Conversation We Need to Have with Vu Le
What if the rules we’ve built our sector around are actually holding us back? I sat down with author, blogger, and nonprofit rabble-rouser Vu Le to dig into the uncomfortable truths behind his new book, Reimagining Nonprofits and Philanthropy, and why the sector’s greatest threat may be its own suppressed imagination.
Ep 250: The Power of Neighbors: A Leadership Story from Minneapolis with Emilia Gonzalez Avalos
When crisis hit Minneapolis, nonprofit leaders and neighbors didn’t wait for rescue. In this episode, Emilia Gonzalez Avalos of Unidos Minnesota shares what it took to build a rapid-response infrastructure, protect communities, and turn terror into collective action.
Ep 249: Financial Resilience Isn’t Luck – It’s Strategy with Bethany Maki
In a nonprofit, revenue often feels uncertain. But here’s the secret: financial resilience isn’t luck – it’s strategy. In this episode, Glennda Testone and Bethany Maki of Progressive Multipliers explore how nonprofits can build independent revenue, diversify funding, and strengthen long-term sustainability.
Ep 248: Strategic Planning for Nonprofits: Simple, Agile, and Real with Sophia Shaw and Adam Wolford
Strategic planning doesn’t have to be expensive, exhausting, or end up on a shelf. In this episode, Glennda Testone talks with Sophia Shaw and Adam Wolford of PlanPerfect about a smarter, more accessible approach to nonprofit strategic planning – especially for small to mid-sized organizations.
Ep 247: A Volunteer’s Guide to Major Donor Conversations with Eileen Opatut
In this episode, I’m joined by my wife Eileen Opatut, a volunteer fundraiser who landed a yes on her first major ask! Together, we break down what actually works and walk through the real mechanics of successful fundraising.
Ep 246: If You Believe Leadership Matters, Prove It!
Nonprofit leaders aren’t burning out because they’re incapable. They’re burning out because we’re not setting them up for success. In this episode, I make the case for why leadership development is not optional – and why investing in leaders is one of the most powerful retention strategies our sector has.
Ep 245: Rethinking Leadership in 2026: The Shifts Nonprofit Leaders Need to Make Now
In this episode, Glennda and I reflect on what last year revealed about leadership–and what must change going forward. From adaptive leadership to intentional planning to shared power and long-term thinking, this conversation explores how nonprofit leaders can move beyond reaction and lead with clarity, resilience, and purpose in the year ahead.
Ep 244: The Board Chair–CEO Blueprint: What Every Nonprofit Can Learn from Girl Scouts USA
When the relationship between a board chair and CEO is strong, it can transform an entire organization, but most nonprofit leaders aren’t taught how to build it well. Girl Scouts of the USA’s CEO Bonnie Barczykowski and Board President Noorain Khan join Glennda to share exactly how they created a high-trust, high-impact partnership from day one.
Ep 243: What 2025 Taught Us About Real Leadership with Darlene Nipper
2025 felt like a year when everything became more and harder. More crises. More fear. More civic strain. More communities under pressure. And yet – more leadership, too.
In this episode, Glennda connects with Darlene Nipper, President of the Rockwood Leadership Institute, for a grounded look at what leadership truly looked like in 2025.
Darlene shares what she and her team witnessed across t
Ep 242: Think Like a Nonprofit: A Smarter Way to Do Business
Nonprofits aren’t “less than” – they’re labs for modern leadership. I’ll share 8 nonprofit lessons corporate leaders need now.
Ep: 241: Nonprofit Budgets Done Right: Goals Drive and Numbers Follow
Your budget isn’t just rows on a spreadsheet–it tells a story. I’ll explain how a goals-first budgeting process reduces friction, fuels creativity, and helps everyone in your organization pull in the same direction.
Ep 240: NEIGHBORS FIRST: HOW TO FIND COMMON GROUND with Garrett Cathcart
We say we “know” our neighbors, but do we really talk to them? Army vet and civic entrepreneur Garrett Cathcart joins Joan to share a hopeful, doable model for bringing people together across differences. If you’ve been craving belonging (and a practical path forward), this episode will give you tools and hope.
Ep: 239 ADHD at Work: A Guide for Nonprofit Leaders and Teams
Erica Fortescue joins Glennda to debunk the myth that ADHD is a flaw at work. With simple, brain-based tools and strategies nonprofit leaders can turn friction into flow and build high-functioning, neuroinclusive teams.
Ep. 238: Small Gifts, Big Impact: Building Sustainable Revenue from Everyday Donors (with Vivian Chang)
People-powered fundraising isn't rocket-science, but it does take intention, bandwidth, and smart systems. Listen in as Vivian Chang shares how your grassroots, small-donor dollars can stabilize your revenue, build ambassadors for your organization, and align your funding with your mission.
Ep 237: The AI Field Guide: A Playbook for Nonprofit Success with Darian Rodriguez Heyman and Cheryl Contee
AI can feel overwhelming until you make it practical. Darian Rodriguez Heyman and Cheryle Contee join me to discuss their new tactical field guide, AI for Nonprofits. Discover how your organization can adopt AI responsibly and free your staff to do more human work.
Ep 236: Defeated Today, Inspired Tomorrow: A New Way to Lead Development
Too many Development Directors feel like failures if they don't hit their revenue numbers — even when circumstances are beyond their control. In this episode, I explore why this mindset is harmful and what nonprofits can do to redefine success.
Ep. 235: Donor-Advised Funds Demystified (with Mitch Stein)
Donor-Advised Funds (DAFs) are booming—but most nonprofit leaders still find them confusing or inaccessible. In this episode, Mitch Stein from Chariot joins Glennda Testone to bust common myths, explain how DAFs work, and share how both donors and nonprofits can make the most of them.
Ep. 234: Succession Planning: It’s Time To Stop Talking About Leaders and Buses (with Glennda Testone)
Succession planning gets treated like a worst-case scenario when it should be a regular part of nonprofit leadership. In this episode, Glennda and I get candid about our own transitions—and what we wish we’d known sooner.
Ep. 233: Leading Through Whiplash: How to Stay Grounded in Uncertain Times (with Alex Love)
Whiplash. That’s how it feels to lead a nonprofit right now. Executive coach, Alex Love and Glennda Testone explore how leaders can stay grounded, care for their teams, and hold onto their mission through constant change.
Ep. 232: The Helpers Need Help Too: How Leaders Refill Their Tanks (with Glennda Testone)
In a time when many nonprofits fear losing that very status, we are celebrating wins as a reminder that progress and possibility still exist. Glennda Testone and I share the stories and sparks that are refueling our own leadership and hopefully, yours too.
Ep 231: Improving the Nonprofit Talent Search (with Omar Lopez)
Attracting top talent to your nonprofit isn’t about luck—it’s about alignment. Talent search expert, Omar Lopez shares what it takes to find (and keep) the right people in today’s competitive hiring landscape.
Ep. 230: Think Big: How Capital Campaigns Fuel Long-Term Growth (with Amy Eisenstein)
What if a capital campaign could be your nonprofit’s ticket to long-term growth? Fundraising expert Amy Eisenstein joins the podcast to bust common myths and share practical insights from decades of experience. From feasibility studies to board engagement, she lays out what it really takes to run a successful campaign—no wealthy board members required.
Ep 229: Imposter Syndrome Is Real—6 Ways To Overcome It
Many nonprofit leaders feel like they’re just one mistake away from being “found out.” Even experienced executives, including myself, wrestle with that nagging voice of doubt, especially in moments of high visibility or pressure. But instead of letting imposter syndrome win, here are 6 tangible strategies.
Ep. 228: Nonprofits Are Under Attack (with Glennda Testone)
Nonprofits are under attack in 2025—from hostile federal policies, harmful public misconceptions, and risk-averse boards. Glennda Testone and I urge nonprofit leaders to push back, speak up, and lead with boldness and creativity. Despite the challenges, we spotlight moments of hope and courage from organizations stepping up to protect communities and sustain impact.
Ep 227: What Challenging Times Make Possible (with Michael Hyatt)
What if challenging times are invitations to redefine what matters most? Michael Hyatt shares what helped him redefine success, and find a fulfilling way to live and lead.
Ep. 226: Nonprofits in the Chaos of 2025: What’s At Stake And How to Respond (with Amol Sinha)
The nonprofit sector is under attack. But, there’s hope. In this episode, Glennda Testone and I talk with Amol Sinha about the unique harms facing nonprofits and how we can all take action to protect our missions.
Ep 225: The Secret to Sustainability: Taking Care of Yourself as You Lead (with Mariam Habib)
Nonprofit leadership can be deeply meaningful—and deeply exhausting. In this powerful conversation, Glennda Testone and trauma specialist Mariam Habib explore what it takes to sustain yourself while serving others. From setting boundaries to building resilience, this episode is a roadmap for leading with purpose and preserving your well-being.
Ep 224: Fighting Loneliness In Remote Work (with Dr. Tracy Brower)
Work can be a source of joy and fulfillment—but only if we feel connected. In this episode, Dr. Tracy Brower unpacks why we’re feeling more isolated than ever—and what leaders can do to build workplaces where people actually feel like they belong.
Ep 223: Activating Change: Fighting Ableism and Building Accessible Nonprofits (with Nancy Smith)
Disability is not a niche issue—it’s a reality for 60 million Americans. Yet, systemic bias and stereotypes continue to exclude people with disabilities from conversations about inclusion. In this episode, Nancy Smith of Activating Change shares practical steps nonprofits can take to build truly accessible and equitable spaces.
Ep 222: The Joys and Challenges of Leading A Small Nonprofit (with members of the Nonprofit Leadership Lab)
Three fearless nonprofit leaders share what drives them, how they navigate burnout, and the vision that keeps them going. Tomik Dash, Laura Carmichael, and Adrienne McCue are breaking barriers and sharing their stories that prove that small but mighty nonprofits are changing lives every day.
Ep 221: Building Organizational Capacity For Rapid Response (with Deepa Iyer)
From the Atlanta spa shootings to ongoing challenges, Deepa Iyer highlights the critical need for infrastructure, relationship-building, and centering the voices of affected communities in times of crisis.
Ep 220: 5 Strategies for Leading Nonprofits in 2025
Whether you’re grappling with turbulent times or striving for greater impact, these strategies will help you navigate 2025 with clarity and purpose. Join me for a conversation that will leave you inspired, equipped, and ready to take on the year ahead. Let’s buckle up and face this journey together.
Ep 219: Simplifying Success: How Project Management Can Transform Nonprofit Leadership (with Christie Machorek)
Nonprofit leaders often feel overwhelmed by endless tasks, but project management guru, Christie Machorek, shares insights about how to transform chaos into clarity. With simple strategies like celebrating wins and debriefing after projects, she shows how to create systems that free up time to focus on what truly matters.
Ep. 218: 2024 In Review: A Heartfelt Reflection on Leadership and What Lies Ahead (with Glennda Testone)
I sit down with Glennda Testone, CEO of the Nonprofit Leadership Lab, to unpack personal and professional lessons from 2024. Together, we discuss navigating change, embracing resilience, and how nonprofit leaders can strengthen their organizations for the challenges ahead.
Ep 217: Why We Must Reframe The Narrative Around Gen Z (with Bianca Anderson and Lamisa Mustafa)
Bianca Anderson and Lamisa Mustafa join me in a conversation about shifting the stereotypes and misconceptions about Gen Z. Whether you're grappling with workforce challenges or striving to lead inclusively, this episode will equip you with insights and tools to turn generational differences into an asset.
Ep 216: Just Fund Me! (with Iara Peng)
Iara Peng guest appears on the podcast to discuss redefining philanthropy, what her company Just Fund is doing to equalize and simplify giving, and the one word that moves money.
Ep 215: The Worst Headline Just Hit The New York Times. Now What? (with Seth Chalmer)
Seth Chalmer’s insights on crisis management will help you navigate today’s challenging social landscape as a nonprofit leader. This conversation gives tools to spark valuable conversations that can create clarity and confidence the next time your organization faces a hot-button topic and needs to respond.
Ep 214: Productive Conversations in Polarizing Conflicts (with Parisa Parsa)
Nonprofit Leadership Lab CEO, Glennda Testone, and Parisa Parsa explore how nonprofit leaders can have productive conversations amidst polarization and division. Parisa shares practical strategies for addressing power dynamics and leading productive conversations across differences.
Ep 213: Racial Dynamics in Nonprofit Fundraising (with Mikaela Levons + Jamila Hodge)
Jamila Hodge and Mikaela Levons from Equal Justice USA join the podcast to discuss the challenges and strengths of fundraisers of color. We explore how race, white supremacy power dynamics, and lived experiences shape their approach to fundraising and leadership.
Ep 212: Street Cred, Trust Capital, and Impact-Focused Fundraising (with Michael Thatcher)
I sat down with Michael Thatcher, CEO of Charity Navigator, to explore how nonprofits can use data to build trust with donors and move beyond the outdated focus on overhead. Michael shared valuable insights on how nonprofits can better engage donors, make the right asks, and thrive in today’s challenging giving environment.
Ep 211: The Maverick Marketing Approach (with Seth Godin)
Seth Godin, the marketing GOAT, shares a fresh, transformative approach to nonprofit marketing. He reveals how understanding and aligning with your donors' emotions can significantly enhance your strategy.
Ep 210: Scaling Social Impact: Strategies for the Small Nonprofit (with Scott Curran)
One-third of all nonprofits fail within 10 years, and 30% of the 1.5 million nonprofits in the U.S. have budgets under $100,000, putting them at significant risk of failure. To address this challenge, Scott Curran, CEO of Beyond Advisors, shares his expertise on how growth-stage social impact enterprises can strengthen their core, define their unique value, and strategically scale. This episode of
Ep 209: Finding the Courage to Say No
In this episode, Glennda Testone and I dive into real-life scenarios where we've had to make tough decisions and say no. Our intimate conversation offers practical tips on navigating common leadership challenges with confidence and diplomacy.
Ep 208: Bring Back the Joy of Giving (with Allison Fine)
Allison Fine and I discuss the need to transform nonprofit fundraising from a transactional to a relational model, leverage technology to build meaningful donor relationships, and create a more sustainable and joyful fundraising environment.
Ep 207: From Walmart to Feeding America (with Claire Babineaux-Fontenot)
Like me, Claire Babineaux-Fontenot moved from the corporate world to the nonprofit sector with zero previous experience in nonprofit work. In this episode, she shares her inspiring story of how and why she shifted her focus to step into her most impactful work yet.
Ep 206: The Nonprofit Sector’s PR Problem – And How We Can Fix It
The nonprofit sector has a serious PR problem that impacts its ability to garner adequate support. Nonprofit leaders have a powerful opportunity to be ambassadors and advocates for the sector as a whole. In this episode, I make a poignant call to action for nonprofit leaders everywhere to rally to the side of saving public perception of the important work they do.
Ep. 205: The Power and Influence of the Nonprofit Sector (with Dr. Akilah Watkins)
Let’s discuss collective nonprofit power - what it is, what it isn’t, and what the nonprofit sector could do to harness it. To do more good in the world, we need to stand in our collective power which includes, ironically, taking a seat at the table.
Ep 204: Build Your Volunteer Dream Team (with Matt Miszewski)
Need to build capacity? Fix your fundraising? Graphics design or marketing? HR support? Then you need to know about Catchafire, an organization that is bridging paths to stronger communities by aligning nonprofits with expert volunteers.
Ep 203: Can You Answer These 10 Funder Questions?
Congrats! A funder is considering donating to your nonprofit and they have questions. For some, this request instills panic. Here is how to prepare!
Ep 202: The Master of Mobilizing Movements (with Jeremy Heimans)
Since he was 8 years old, Jeremy Heimans has been mobilizing movements that galvanize people for social change. He is the guru to ask about how to reach people and motivate them to take action. In this episode, he shares his insights.
Ep 201: Cultural Intelligence: A Major Key to a Thriving Nonprofit (with Dr. Pablo Otaola)
You’ve heard of IQ and EQ. But, CQ is the third intelligence that empowers a nonprofit leader to mightily drive the mission with the strong, rallying support of a unified team. Listen in to learn what CQ is, how it works, and why it matters in the nonprofit landscape like never before.
Ep 200: The 200th Episode: Gratitude & Observations About This Amazing Journey
Releasing episode 200 of the Nonprofits Are Messy podcast is a milestone. It has been a journey full of insights, observations, and a big fat “I told you so”. This is a look back at how far we’ve come together.
Ep 199: The Fearless Election Year Fundraising Plan (with Tom Kissane)
Conservative and risk-averse boards tend to lower expectations and pull back on fundraising during an election year. In this episode with Tom Kissane, Vice Chairman of CCS Fundraising, he shares compelling reasons to go boldly forward with your organization’s fundraising efforts in 2024.
Ep 198: Challenging the Status Quo in Long-Standing Organizations (with Cica Dadjo)
What is the secret to implementing DEI strategy in long-standing nonprofit organizations? Cica Dadjo, Chief GEDI at the IRC, shares universal lessons that can help nonprofit leaders disrupt the status quo of organizational culture.
Ep 197: Stop Calling It Microaggressions: A Call To Action To Intercept Subtle Acts Of Exclusion (with Dr. Tiffany Jana)
It is a misnomer. There is nothing ‘micro’ about microaggression. What is the real meaning of microaggression, what should it truly be called, and how can a leader recognize and take action to tackle it? Dr. Tiffany Jana shares her insights, why she has stopped using the word ‘crazy’, and what organizations can do to create a culture of awareness.
Ep 196: How Risky Is AI For Nonprofits? (with Beth Kanter)
Organizations around the world are using artificial intelligence to improve processes, delegate tasks, and drive progress. What do nonprofit leaders need to know?
Ep 195: Conflict Resolution and Finding the Third Ground (with Ken Cloke)
World-renowned conflict resolution expert, Ken Cloke, shares his secrets for overcoming conflict using proven strategies from his mediation practice that have brought "impossible" conflicts to peace across the world for 4 decades.
Ep 194: Leaders of Color in Nonprofits: Challenges and Opportunities (with April Frazier Camara)
In this episode, I chat with April Frazier Camara about how diversity is the secret sauce in nonprofit leadership. Her insights? Eye-opening. You'll see our sector in a whole new light.
Ep 193: Is “Martyritis” Killing Your Organization? (with Kishshana Palmer)
In our sector, time often feels like a scarce resource. You're likely juggling countless tasks, believing that maximum productivity is the key to fulfilling your mission. But what if we're approaching time all wrong?
Ep 192: Embracing Our Finite Time (with Oliver Burkeman)
In our sector, time often feels like a scarce resource. You're likely juggling countless tasks, believing that maximum productivity is the key to fulfilling your mission. But what if we're approaching time all wrong?
Ep 191: How to Build Amazing Work Relationships (with Michael Bungay Stanier)
Great work relationships lead to greater job satisfaction and higher employee retention. Michael Bungay Stanier shares with us his recipe for designing our work relationships to thrive.
Ep 190: Nonprofits Turn Cities Into Communities (with Mayor Ras J. Baraka)
In this episode, Mayor Ras J. Baraka of Newark, NJ shed light on a beautiful partnership dance between city government and nonprofits. These organizations, he shared, often handle tasks the city can't, challenging local governance to aim higher, do better.
Ep 189: Is a 5-Star Development Director a Needle in a Haystack?
Organizations often stay with a subpar development director because they don't believe they could get someone better. Let's explore this assumption.
Ep 188: Can A Teen Be Your Next Executive Director? (with Sarah Hernholm)
How do we ensure that the next generation of nonprofit leadership is prepared? Sarah Hernholm shares her groundbreaking work with WIT.
Ep 187: Don’t Be a Mission Creep!
Mission creep is a big problem for many nonprofits. Here’s some practical advice on how to prevent it.
Ep 186: Emotional Intelligence is the Key to Better Leadership (with Daniel Goleman)
How can we improve our emotional intelligence and become better leaders as a result? Daniel Goleman, author of "Emotional Intelligence", explains.
Ep 185 - The Surprising Impact of a Strong Organizational Value Statement (with Lindsay Hoffman)
Let's bring your organizational values to life in a tangible way. Join me and Lindsay Hoffman as we transform vague concepts into a potent value statement that drives your nonprofit's mission.
Ep 184: Nobody Told Me I’d Have to Fundraise!
Let’s unpack the truth about board fundraising expectations…
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