Real Organic Podcast
Real Organic Project 301 episodes Nov 10, 2026
Real Organic Podcast brings conversations between farmers and scientists, activists, politicians, and authors who work to protect USDA organic certification from corporate influence. The Real Organic Project launched its own add-on food label in 2021 and aims to connect American eaters with its movement and allies. Episodes feature organic and regenerative farmers, journalists, climate experts, policy makers, and chefs such as Vandana Shiva, Paul Hawken, Leah Penniman, Bill McKibben, Alice Waters, Dan Barber, and Eliot Coleman. The show highlights the importance of keeping corporate cheaters out of the real food movement, arguing that both human and planetary health are at stake. Its core message is to feed the soil, not the plant.
Episodes
Dave Chapman + Linley Dixon: Saving Organic Through Activist Science
Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon take the stage at Churchtown Dairy to examine the science and systems behind the future of organic farming. Dave contrasts what he calls the “science of death” with a science that works through living systems, using biological control as an example of what becomes possible when agriculture learns from ecology rather than trying to overpower it. Linley brings that argu
Bonus: Linley Dixon on No Small Endeavor
For this bonus episode, we’re sharing a favorite from No Small Endeavor, hosted by Lee C. Camp, a podcast exploring what it means to live a good life. Lee sat down with Real Organic Project co-director Linley Dixon to talk about the path that took her from academia into farming and activism, and why healthy soil became central to the way she thinks about food, community, and human flourishing. Lin
Frank Ashwood: The World Beneath Our Feet
301: Frank Ashwood has devoted his career to creatures most of us never notice: springtails, mites, earthworms, and the enormous community of life beneath the soil surface. That hidden world is not incidental to agriculture - it's required! Soil life is what helps turn organic matter into fertile soil and keeps nutrients moving through a living food web to help grow our food, medicine and vital wi
Tim Bowles + Michael Grunwald: Can We Feed the Planet Without Eating the Earth?
300: Michael Grunwald and Tim Bowles agree that agriculture has an enormous environmental footprint; they disagree about what to do about it. Grunwald makes the case that producing more food per acre is necessary to prevent agriculture from consuming even more land. Bowles counters that the evidence for "land sparing" is far less certain, and argues for agroecology as a way to rethink productivity
Lynn Clarkson: Winning Back The US Organic Grain Market
299: Lynn Clarkson has been buying and selling organic grain since the early days of the market, and he has watched imported supply reshape the business. He believes that too much of that trade depends on certification systems that are difficult to enforce. The result, he says, is a market where fraudulent imports can undercut American organic farmers even when domestic production is financially a
Will Brinton: Let The Land Express Itself
298: Soil scientist Will Brinton has spent much of his career helping farmers understand what is happening beneath their feet. Over time, that work has led him to question the mechanistic way modern agriculture often approaches living systems. Will believes that reductionist science is valuable for measuring individual parts, but becomes limiting when those measurements are mistaken for the whole.
Kendra Klein: Pesticides, Power, And The Future Of Organic
297: Kendra Klein, senior scientist at Friends of the Earth, has spent years investigating the health and environmental consequences of pesticide-dependent agriculture. She argues that the influence of pesticide companies reaches far beyond the chemicals themselves; they actively shape federal policy, as well as our commonly held belief that toxic inputs are necessary if we want to feed the world.
László Barabási: The Nutritional Dark Matter in Our Food
296: László Barabási has spent much of his career studying complex systems, from cells to social networks. This lifelong body of work eventually led him to ask a simple question: what is food actually made of? While nutrition science has identified the components we need for energy and survival, László’s lab has documented roughly 135,000 other molecules in food that sit largely outside the trad
Chuck Benbrook: What the Driscoll’s Lawsuits Reveal
295: Chuck Benbrook returns with a close look at several legal battles involving Driscoll’s and what they may tell us about the enormous influence of the country’s dominant berry companies. He discusses pesticide concerns around schools and farm communities, allegations raised by a former company agronomist, Driscoll’s lawsuit against the food-finding platform Localize, and another legal challenge
Paul Hawken: Can Chemical Agriculture Feed the World?
294: Paul Hawken challenges the assumption that industrial agriculture is necessary to feed a growing world. His starting point is the land itself: if chemical farming has contributed to degraded soils, desertification, declining biodiversity, and increasingly fragile food systems, concentrating even more production into that model is hardly a solution. Paul argues instead for restoring life to da
Liz Carlisle: Land Sharing Is How We Feed the Future
293: Author and agroecologist Liz Carlisle has spent years documenting farmers who are building food systems around diversity, resilience, and cooperation rather than extraction. She challenges the idea that we must intensify industrial agriculture in some places in order to “save” nature somewhere else, pointing instead to thousands of years of human history in which people have grown food as par
Chellie Pingree: Can Healthy Food Bring Left and Right Together?
292: Congresswoman Chellie Pingree has spent years working at the intersection of farming, food, health, and federal policy. She sees growing concern about pesticides and ultra-processed foods coming from people across the political spectrum, creating a rare opportunity for alliances that did not exist before. But turning that agreement into policy means confronting powerful agricultural and chemi
Corinne Hansch: Small Farms Can Make a Great Living
291: Corinne Hansch and her husband Matthew Leon started farming during one of the hardest financial periods of their lives. Years later, Lovin’ Mama Farm has become a thriving organic business built around intensive production, direct relationships with customers, and an extraordinary diversity of crops and products. Corinne explains why they stopped wholesaling, how six weekly farmers markets tr
Zephyr Teachout: Reorganizing Food Systems For Real Food
290: Antitrust scholar Zephyr Teachout explains how monopoly power has reshaped food, retail, health care, media, technology, and nearly every other part of American life. A handful of grocery companies now control much of the marketplace, while dominant distributors use kickbacks and other questionable methods to control of shelf space. Zephyr lays out practical ways states can begin reversing th
Bonus: Introducing No Small Endeavor: “What If We Get Climate Action Right? feat. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson”
Today, we are sharing an episode from the Signal Award-winning and 2026 Ambie Award-nominated podcast No Small Endeavor. Hosted by award-winning teacher and Professor of Theology and Ethics Lee C. Camp, No Small Endeavor explores what it means to live a good life, uncovering the habits, practices, and dispositions that facilitate human flourishing.
In this episode, marine biologist, policy expert
Teri McCall: Jack's Fight, Roundup, And The Supreme Court
289: Teri McCall joins us to reflect on the life she built with her husband Jack, a farmer, before his death from non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. She talks about the early Monsanto litigation regarding Roundup (glyphosate) and why she chose to speak out publicly even when doing so felt frightening. Teri spoke at the People vs Poisons event in the spring of 26, just before the Supreme Court granted Bayer-
John Fullerton: Regenerative Economics For A Living World
Former Wall Street banker John Fullerton traces the personal journey that led him to question the foundations of modern economics, inspired by witnessing 9/11 in real time and finding the seminal book "Limits to Growth." John explains why an economy dependent on perpetual material growth cannot remain stable on a finite planet, and why many of today’s ecological, social, political, and financial c
James Cassidy: Soil, Civilization + The Future Of Farming
#286: Soil scientist and educator James Cassidy explains why the ground beneath us is far more than a medium for growing crops. Soil stores water and nutrients, supports biological communities, shapes regional food cultures, and has influenced the rise of nations and civilizations. Cassidy explores how grasslands and grazing animals created some of the world’s richest agricultural soils, how micro
Amy Westervelt: Think Tanks, Greenwashing + The War On Reality
#286: "Drilled" host Amy Westervelt shares her deep knowledge of corporate propaganda, climate politics, and how the hidden systems that influence our consent as a society or as an entire population have been constructed. Pretty alarming stuff to say the least! She shows us how industries protect themselves by shaping not only markets, but the very terms of public debate - using think tanks, ami
Mark Doudlah: From Glyphosate + Cancer To Real Organic
#285: Mark Doudlah shares his story of being a proud chemical farmer who fully transitioned to organic after a devastating family loss. He reflects on his father’s cancer, the culture of “feeding the world” that influences so many Midwestern growers and how the glyphosate he once relied on to farm still poisons his family's drinking water. He also celebrates he tools, cover crops, and growing meth
Nicola Shirley-Phillips : Growing Organic in Jamaica
#284: Nicola Shirley-Phillips joins us to explore the crossroads facing Jamaican agriculture. She reflects on Ital food traditions, the spread of Green Revolution farming, the pressure of exports and imported processed foods, and the need to reconnect farmers, consumers, and policymakers to a more ecological, organic vision. Along the way, she introduces her idea of “organic intelligence” and desc
State of Seed Ep 1: How Seeds Feed the World
We have a special episode to share with you this week from our friends at the State of Seed podcast, produced by the International Seed Federation and the podcast team at Foreign Policy magazine:
https://foreignpolicy.com/podcasts/state-of-seed/
Hosted by Laura Rosbrow-Telem, State of Seed focuses on how seeds feed and sustain the planet. Each episode features sound-rich explorations with innova
Chuck Benbrook: The Supreme Court’s Big Win for Bayer-Monsanto
Chuck Benbrook returns for an urgent conversation about the Supreme Court ruling in favor of Bayer-Monsanto and the wider consequences for public health, pesticide regulation, and the future of farming. He explains how the decision weakens one of the most important legal tools available to people harmed by pesticides, why it matters far beyond Roundup, and how the same political forces now shaping
Coalition of Immokalee Workers: Why The Fair Food Program Works
#282: Greg Asbed and Gerardo Reyes Chávez join us again for a deeper look at how the Coalition of Immokalee Workers turned one of the most exploited sectors of the food system into a model for change. They trace the path from wage theft, sexual violence, and modern-day slavery in the fields of Florida to a proven system of prevention that is now influencing labor protections across the globe and c
Laura Orlando: PFAS, Sewage Sludge, And Poisoned Farms
#281: Laura Orlando explains what happens when industrial waste and human waste are routed into the same sewage system and repackaged to be sold as something safe - valuable even, for improving farmland. She explains how sludge spreading has poisoned farms, why Maine became a national beacon by banning its application, and what it will take to stop sewage sludge from becoming an even bigger crisi
Pam Koch: Joan Gussow’s Nutritional Ecology Legacy
#280 Pam Koch reflects on what she learned from Joan Gussow, how Nutritional Ecology changed the way students think about food, and why Joan’s ideas feel even more urgent now. Moving from the history of nutrition science and the limits of reductionist research to the failures of conventional agriculture and the false promise of techno-fixes, Pam shares Joan's belief that real organic food offers a
Zephyr Teachout: Organic's Deal With The Devil
#279: Zephyr Teachout uses the question of organic integrity to explore a larger political problem: what happens when concentrated private power reshapes public rules while staying mostly within the law? Starting with the pressure on Real Organic to join forces with industrial organic against Bayer and Syngenta, she and Dave unpack corruption, anti-monopoly politics, regenerative agriculture, dece
Austin Frerick: Food Barons - Live At Churchtown
#278: Austin Frerick takes the stage at our annual Churchtown Dairy event to explain why today’s food economy looks less like a functioning market that benefits farmers and eaters, and more like a new Gilded Age. He traces how a handful of Big Food "barons" have consolidated power over grain, meat, dairy, coffee, and distribution, often using tactics that average humans would just never consider.
Lindsey Lusher Shute: GrownBy + The Future Of Farmer-Owned Tech
#277: Lindsey Lusher Shute returns to connect the dots between young farmer organizing, land access, and the practical tools farms need to survive. She shares how Hearty Roots Community Farm helped shape her policy work, why she left the National Young Farmers Coalition to focus on GrownBy, and how a cooperative approach to technology can support CSA sales, wholesale orders, farmers market transac
Bonus: NHPR's Safe To Drink | Season 1, Episode 1
This week we’re sharing a special episode from our friends at the Safe to Drink podcast, produced by the Pulitzer Prize-finalist team behind Bear Brook and The 13th Step at New Hampshire Public Radio.
Safe to Drink investigates one of the largest PFAS contamination events in New Hampshire’s history. Hosted by NHPR climate reporter Mara Hoplamazian, the series follows a community grappling with “f
Mara Hoplamazian: PFAS + Safe Drinking Water
#276: Mara Hoplamazian joins the Real Organic Podcast to talk about PFAS contamination, poisoned wells, citizen activism, and the long struggle to make drinking water safer in New Hampshire and beyond. Their reporting on the NHPR series Safe to Drink follows the communities, workers, regulators, and advocates caught in a crisis shaped by corporate secrecy and years of delayed action. After this Tu
Marion Nestle: Food Politics in the Age of MAHA
#275: Marion Nestle takes the Churchtown stage to examine what the Make America Healthy Again movement is actually doing, and not doing, inside the American food system. She looks at food dyes, the GRAS loophole, SNAP restrictions, ultra-processed foods, pesticide politics, dietary guidelines, and the competing pressures of Big Food, Big Ag, and Washington lobbyists, arguing that the rhetoric arou
Hugh Kent: The Science Of Life On An Organic Farm
#274: Hugh Kent returns to further the case that there is a growing divide in agriculture between industrial, chemical-intesnive practices and the organic approach of working with nature. He connects living soil, on-farm biodiversity, natural pest control, blueberry flavor and shelf life, hydroponic confusion, and the economic case for selling directly to people who still want food grown in a genu
Suzanne Simard: When The Forest Breathes
#273: Suzanne Simard joins Linley to discuss her new book, When the Forest Breathes, and the science that has made her one of the most influential voices in forest ecology. Together they explore mycorrhizae, soil life, clear-cutting, herbicides, climate adaptation, and the difference between forests managed for short-term extraction (industry) and forests managed for long-term resilience (indigeno
Dr. Ann López: California Farmworker Reality Tours
#272: Dr. Ann López discusses the California farmworker reality tours she's designed and the deeper story they reveal about modern agriculture. As founder and executive director of the Center for Farmworker Families, López has worked to expose the difficult circumstances farmworker families face while helping the public understand the binational systems that drive migration, poverty, and invisibil
Jim Cochran: Growing Real Organic Strawberries in California
#271: Jim Cochran joins us to talk about a lifetime of growing organic strawberries in California and the movement that helped make that work possible. A pioneer of organic berry production, Cochran reflects on early side-by-side comparisons with conventional farming, the importance of flavor and customer trust, and the economic pressures facing real organic growers today. The conversation also ex
Omar Dieguez: My Hunger Strike Against Driscoll's Berries
#270: Omar Dieguez shares the story behind his 30 day hunger strike over Driscoll’s berries and the campaign to stop pesticides near schools in Watsonville, CA and the Pajaro Valley. From spray drift and youth organizing to farmworker exposure, Omar explains why he believes a handful of fields near local schools should be converted to organic. This is a unforgettable conversation about berries, po
JM Fortier At Farmer Friday: Growing Vegetables For Profit
#269: Recorded live at Real Organic Project’s Churchtown event, this Farmer Friday talk features JM Fortier in front of an audience of working farmers, sharing the systems and economics behind one of the best-known small-scale market gardens in North America. He discusses permanent raised beds, human-scale tools, greenhouse production, irrigation, labor, compost, and why pricing vegetables correc
Bill McKibben: Here Comes the Sun for Farmers
#268: Bill McKibben discusses his new book, Here Comes the Sun, and the rapid rise of clean energy in a warming world. While much of the climate conversation focuses on damage and delay, McKibben argues that solar and wind have quietly become the cheapest energy sources on Earth, creating a real opening for change. Bill also mentions the promising field of solar power for farmers, including agrivo
StarWalker Organic Farm: Pasture Raised Organic Beef For All
#267: What does it take to bring truly pasture-raised organic beef to market when the processing system is stacked against small and mid-sized farms? Jason and Kristina Walker of StarWalker Organic Farm join Linley to talk about raising cattle on pasture - and how they purchased their own USDA certified processing facility in northern California - turning a supply-chain problem into a model that
Brisa Ranch: Small Farms As Distributors
#266: Three farmer-owners of Brisa Ranch lay out a practical answer to a big question: how can small farms survive in a marketplace built for consolidated buyers and consolidated distribution? Their approach is to become “small farms as distributors” by pairing production with aggregation, cold storage, sales, and last-mile delivery through the Coastside Local Food Hub in Pescadero, California. A
Maria Rodale: Family Lore And Organic Farming Trials
#265: Maria Rodale comes from one of the most influential families in American organic history; here she shares how her grandfather J.I. Rodale connected human health to the way food is grown and helped popularize organic through publishing. She also traces the practical takeaways behind (her dad Bob) Rodale's organic farming trials, launched in 1980, to test organic side by side with conventional
Allan Savory: Using Livestock To Reverse Desertification In National Parks
#264: What if some of the worst biodiversity loss and land degradation is happening inside protected national parks, even where there is no farming, mining, or fossil fuel extraction? Allan Savory, author of the new book "Unsavory: African Stories of Wildlife, War, and the Birth of Holistic Management," explains how we can use livestock to reverse desertification in these areas. He also makes the
Barbara Damrosch: A Life In The Garden
#263: Barbara Damrosch's new book A Life In The Garden is a reminder that the best garden advice is practical: touch the soil, grow what you’ll eat, and keep learning season after season. Barbara shares stories with Dave from her lifetime of writing, filming a television show and farming alongside her husband Eliot Coleman.
https://realorganicproject.org/barbara-damrosch-a-life-in-the-garden
The R
Sally Fox: Organic Cotton Chemical Dyes
#262: Sally Fox explains why growing organic cotton can't be simplified to “skip pesticides.” She lays out the hard parts people rarely price in: weeds, labor, fertility, and what happens after the bale leaves the field. She also argues the sustainability story got narrowed to farming, while dye waste, processing impacts, and worker issues were pushed offstage.
https://realorganicproject.org/sally
Max Goldberg: Threats to Organic - Hydroponics & Regenerative Confusion
#261: Organic Insider founder Max Goldberg unpacks the most urgent threats facing organic integrity today: the explosive growth of hydroponic “organic,” the quiet industry push to normalize gene-edited GMO 2.0, and the confusion and greenwashing surrounding the word "regenerative." Max also shares his thoughts on pesticide liability shields and the food-as-medicine movement, as well as why organi
Chuck Benbrook: Chemicals In Food DO Make People Sick
#260: Pesticide risk expert Chuck Benbrook returns for a clear examination of how chemical residues in food affect human health. This conversation responds directly to recent claims made on a popular medical podcast (The Checkup With Dr. Mike - linked below) that downplayed the risks of pesticide exposure and dismissed the benefits of organic food. Essential listening for anyone trying to cut thro
Nancy Matsumoto: Women And Alternative Food Systems
#259: James Beard Award- winning author Nancy Matsumoto discusses her new book Reaping What She Sows : How Women Are Rebuilding Our Broken Food System. From grass-fed dairy farmers and Indigenous fishers to bakers reviving regional grains, Nancy shares stories of innovation, resilience, and community - and reveals the hidden work required to create short, transparent, local food chains that stand
Eliot Coleman on the Market Gardener Podcast
#258: What happens when one of today’s most influential market gardeners sits down with one of the founders of modern organic farming? JM Fortier interviews Eliot Coleman - author, farmer, and pioneer of soil-based organic agriculture. Their conversation explores the roots of market gardening, the central role of healthy soil, and why organic farming must remain grounded in ecological systems rath
Bob Scowcroft: A Carrot Caper Birthed The Organic Label
#257: Before the USDA organic seal existed, the movement was held together by trust, community… and the courage to confront fraud when it appeared. Bob Scowcroft, former executive director of CCOF and co-founder of OFRF, tells the inside story of the famous “carrot caper” - a scandal that forced the public, the press, and the state of California to take organic seriously. Bob also recalls the Ala
Will Brinton: Rethinking Carbon Sequestration - It's The Plant Canopy!
#256: Drawing on decades of soil respiration research, scientist Will Brinton explains why the most important action surrounding carbon sequestration isn’t simply in the soil - it’s the plant canopy that captures CO₂ the moment it’s released. Dr. Brinton returns to our show to discuss the failures of carbon-focused climate programs and a vision for organic farming rooted in diversity, continuous
Deborah Koons Garcia: Future Of Food 20 Years Later
#255: Filmmaker Deborah Koons Garcia joins us, 20 years after the release of her influential documentary The Future of Food, to reflect on how the food system has changed - and how it hasn’t. Deborah shares her thoughts about GMOs, corporate control, regulatory capture, the rise of regenerative farming, and why she followed her GMO exposé with Symphony of the Soil, a film celebrating the beauty an
Tom Philpott: Corporate Control And The Future Of Food
#254: Food systems journalist and author Tom Philpott joins Dave for a powerful discussion on the legacy of Joan Gussow, the myths driving industrial agriculture, and the political forces shaping what we eat. From nitrate pollution in the Corn Belt to the illusion of land-sparing yields, Philpott brings clarity to some of the most urgent questions facing our food system today.
https://realorganicp
Helen Atthowe: Living Pathways for Mulch, Fertility and Habitat
#253: Farmer, researcher, and author Helen Atthowe has spent 40 years building soil ecosystems that feed themselves while offering their own, living biologic controls In this conversation with Dave Chapman, she explains how living pathways - strips of cover crops and mulches between beds and orchard rows - can replace tillage, fertilizers, and pesticides. Drawing from her experiences with Masanob
Leonard Diggs: Building Community-Based Farms for the Future
#252: Farmer, educator, and EcoFarm President Leonard Diggs joins Dave Chapman for a wide-ranging conversation about the evolution of organic agriculture, the legacy of EcoFarm, and the urgent need to move from commodity-based to community-based farming. From his formative years at UC Davis in the 1970s to his journey studying natural farming with Masanobu Fukuoka in Japan, Leonard shares a lifeti
Michael Pollan: “Eat Food” Came From Joan Gussow
#251: Michael Pollan joins Dave Chapman for a wide-ranging conversation on the state of food, health, and the organic movement. Pollan reflects on his friendship with Joan Gussow, her prophetic warnings about industrial agriculture, and her influence on his landmark books The Omnivore’s Dilemma and In Defense of Food. Together, they discuss the meaning of real food, the reductionism of modern nutr
Karen Washington: Food Justice and the Power of Community
#250: Farmer, activist, and Real Organic ally Karen Washington joins Dave Chapman to talk about her decades-long fight for food justice and her friendship with food systems pioneer Joan Gussow Karen traces her journey from growing up in the Bronx projects to co-founding Rise & Root Farm, a women-led, LGBTQ+ and BIPOC cooperative in New York’s Hudson Valley. Together, they discuss how small farms,
Hugh Kent: Saving A Real Organic Farm Through Direct Marketing
#249: Florida blueberry farmer Hugh Kent of King Grove Organic Farm shares the story of how corporate power and USDA negligence nearly drove his organic farm out of business - and how he saved it through direct marketing. Speaking at the Saving Real Organic conference at Churchtown Dairy, Hugh connects the dots between monopoly economics, antitrust failures, hydroponic loopholes, and the collapse
Eliot Coleman: The Self-Fed Farm
#248: Pioneer organic farmer Eliot Coleman returns to the Real Organic Podcast to share the ideas behind his newest book, The Self-Fed Farm and Garden: A Return to the Roots of the Organic Method. In conversation with Real Organic Project co-director Dave Chapman, Eliot explains how farms can thrive without imported manure or compost — using soil-improving crops and long-term green manures to buil
"Eat Food": The Amazing Work Of Joan Gussow
#247: This week, we celebrate the life and work of Joan Gussow, the visionary nutritionist whose thinking transformed how many understand the connection between soil, food, and health. You'll hear from many food systems activists and thinkers, including Michael Pollan, Barbara Kingsolver, Alice Waters, Karen Washington, Dan Barber and Pam Koch as they share personal memories of Joan’s mentorship a
Emily Oakley: A Standalone Label for Real Organic Project
#246: In this talk from the Saving Real Organic conference at Churchtown Dairy, Emily Oakley explains why so many small-scale, soil-based farms are dropping USDA certification - and why the time may be right for Real Organic Project to pursue its own standalone label. A founding farmer of our movement and former NOSB member, Emily asks one of the most urgent questions in the organic movement today
Saving Real Organic: Linley + Dave At Churchtown
#245: Recorded live at the Saving Real Organic conference at Churchtown Dairy on September 27, 2025, co-directors Linley Dixon and Dave Chapman share a joint message about the future of organic farming and our movement’s next chapter. Linley exposes how USDA inaction has eroded organic integrity - from fraudulent grain imports to hydroponic berries - while Dave reflects on the legacy of pioneers l
Bob Quinn: Healing Earth By Growing Food As Medicine
#244: Montana farmer and author Bob Quinn believes the cure for chronic disease begins in the soil. His research comparing ancient and modern wheat varieties has led him to found his own 600 acre institute in the middle of his organic grain farm. Here Bob catches up with Dave to share an update on his White House meeting with Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins and Secretary of Health RFK Jr a
Naomi Oreskes: The True Cost Of Doubt
#243: Celebrated historian of science and author of Merchants of Doubt Naomi Oreskes exposes how powerful corporations distort science to protect profits, by using scientists who seek to promote their personal ideologies. She draws the lines between climate denial, food system disinformation, and the fight to preserve soil-based organic farming. This conversation is a call to defend both science a
Abby Rockefeller: Sewage Sludge Activist
#242: Abby Rockefeller has spent her life pushing back against the toxic legacy of sewage sludge. In this interview, she unpacks how America’s sewer systems pollute water, contaminate farmland, and endanger farmers and eaters alike. From compost toilets to PFAS contamination, Abby makes the case for radically rethinking our waste and a returning to systems that support soil, water, and life.
https
Adam Nordell + Johanna Davis: PFAS Contamination + Organic
#241: Johanna Davis and Adam Nordell built their farm from scratch, growing vegetables and grains while weaving their community together through food and place. But after more than a decade of farming, they discovered their land, water, and bodies were poisoned by PFAS chemicals - “forever chemicals” spread decades earlier as sewage sludge billed as fertilizer. Their journey reveals the deva
Barbara Kingsolver: Food Systems + Truth-Telling With Joan Gussow
#240: Barbara Kingsolver reflects on her lifelong connection to food, her friendship with Joan Gussow, and the spiritual, cultural, and political meaning of how we eat. She shares why fiction can change hearts, why capitalism has reshaped food culture, and why hope is a responsibility we must practice every day.
https://realorganicproject.org/barbara-kingsolver-ode-to-joan-gussow-240
The Real Orga
Larry Jacobs: Lawsuits + Labeling In USDA Organic
#239: California organic farmer and Del Cabo cooperative founder Larry Jacobs returns to discuss why organic farming must remain firmly rooted in soil and not bend to allow hydroponics. Larry’s proven commitment to integrity comes through via his role in a lawsuit against the USDA over the inclusion of hydroponics under the organic seal, as well as his efforts to educate his staff about the issues
Cameron Molberg: Real Organic Poultry At Scale
#238: Cameron Molberg of Greener Pastures Chicken shares how he’s building a vertically integrated model for pasture-raised organic chicken without cutting corners - as is typically done with the majority of usda organic labeled poultry found in chain supermarkets. From animal welfare to USDA loopholes, and feed fraud to school lunch programs, Cameron lays out the challenges and opportunities of
Dick Schwartz: IFS and the Middle Way
#237: In this follow-up conversation, Dick Schwartz, founder of Internal Family Systems therapy, speaks with Dave about how IFS applies far beyond the therapy room. Together, they explore the “middle way” in activism - finding courage and clarity without being consumed by rage or fear. From conflicts in the Middle East to economic inequality and corporate power, Schwartz explains how healing our i
Emily Oakley: Small-Scale Farming In A Changing World
#236 - Small-scale, diversified farmer Emily Oakley returns to share her evolving philosophy on farming, business, and life as she continues to align her daily work with her personal value system. From growing fertility on the farm instead of relying on purchased inputs, to adapting to climate challenges, to finding a sustainable rhythm between work and personal life, Emily offers candid reflectio
Steve Ela: Organic Isn't Linear Thinking
#235 - Steve Ela, longtime organic fruit grower and former NOSB member, reflects on the shift from chemical farming to a biological mindset. He shares lessons from decades of growing tree fruit in Colorado, and why soil health, systems thinking, and real food matter more than ever in the fight for organic integrity.
https://realorganicproject.org/steve-ela-organic-isnt-linear-episode-235
The Real
Episode Swap: JM Fortier Interviews Dave Chapman, Round Two
#234 - In our second episode swap with the Market Gardener Podcast, JM Fortier and co-host Chris Moran sit down with Dave Chapman and trade insights on decentralization, food politics, and how organic values can thrive in today's shifting agricultural landscape. From health and climate to corporate consolidation, their reflections connect farming and activism in powerful ways.
https://realorganicp
Nicole Dehne: When Certification Meets Conviction
#233 - Nicole Dehne, director of Vermont Organic Farmers, shares what it means to uphold real integrity in a shifting organic landscape. From hydroponics and organic standards to the struggles of small farms, she explains how certifiers like VOF are fighting to preserve the original values of organic - transparency, soil health, and farmer-driven accountability - in a system increasingly influence
Eli Pipkin: Mastering Whole Grain Bread
#232 - Stone Barns head baker Eli Pipkin reveals what it takes to bake whole grain bread that is alive with flavor, nutrition, and story. Rooted in the mission of chef Dan Barber's Blue Hill, Eli shares how his team mills fresh flour, bakes with intention, and builds a bread program that honors farmers and soil. This conversation digs deep into how bread - when made right - can restore health to p
The Real Story Of Whole Grain Bread with Michael Pollan + Dan Barber
#231 - In this special conversation, Michael Pollan and Dan Barber and other food system leaders explore the deep relationship between whole grain bread, human health, and agricultural resilience. From the nutrient losses caused by industrial milling to the taste and vitality of freshly milled, soil-grown grains, this episode calls attention to the most overlooked staple on our plates - and how it
Paul Hawken: Reversing Ecological Collapse
#230 - Paul Hawken returns to share his hopeful and hard-won perspective on how organic farming and climate solutions go hand-in-hand, and to reflect on the themes in his latest book Carbon. Drawing from his decades of work in food systems and regeneration, he explains why soil is one of our greatest allies and how organic farmers are leading the charge toward a livable, equitable future.
https://
Marion Nestle: Follow the Food Money
#229 Marion Nestle, author of Food Politics, joins us to discuss how corporate money shapes what ends up on our plates - and why nutrition science so often serves industry over public health. From USDA dietary guidelines to food marketing in schools, Nestle explains how power, politics, and policy collide in the American food system. With decades of research and advocacy behind her, she makes a co
Dan Barber: Farming Flavor First
#228: Dan Barber returns to explore how farming for flavor - not just yield or shelf life - can transform our food system from the ground up. As a chef and co-founder of Row 7 Seeds, Dan argues that seed breeding should begin in the kitchen, with taste driving innovation in the field. From soil-grown crops to flavor-forward farming, this episode digs deep into what we’ve lost - and what we can gro
Kate Mendenhall: Defending Organic Integrity Nationwide
#227: Kate Mendenhall, Executive Director of the Organic Farmers Association, breaks down the strategic grassroots campaign to keep organic standards rooted in soil, transparency, and trust. As corporate influence grows, Kate outlines how OFA is working to ensure the organic label still reflects its original values and that farmer voices are always at the forefront.
https://realorganicproject.org/
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