Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change
Once a week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington have a conversation with a leader in clean energy, mobility, climate finance or sustainable development. Informative, inspiring and fun!
Episodes
Can Asia Ever Move Beyond Coal? | Ep264: Ravi Menon
Singapore is one of the smallest countries in the world, yet plays a unique role as one of Asia’s main financial and oil refining hubs. So how is it using its influence to help or hinder the transition?
Ravi Menon has spent his career at the heart of Singapore’s economic and financial strategy, serving as Managing Director of the Monetary Authority of Singapore (the country’s central bank) before
How Australia Became The World's Battery Champion | Deep Dive Australia 01: Darren Miller
Today, Cleaning Up launches its Deep Dive Australia series. Featuring conversations with nine leaders of the climate and clean energy scene, the series explores where Australia is leading the world, where it is not, and how it got there.
This is an important moment for Australia. The country was extraordinarily exposed to the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, being the largest per capita importer o
How The US Makes and Breaks Global Deals | Ep263: John Kerry
Since Donald Trump returned to the Presidency in 2025, the US has become increasingly isolationist. It has pulled out of the Paris climate agreement and the IPCC, left the World Health Organisation, as well as a whole host of other international organisations and agencies. So, when President Trump leaves the White House, will the US be able to rebuild trust on the international stage?
This week on
Build Fast, Build Now: How China Became an Energy Superpower | Ep262: Professor Ning Li
Professor Ning Li has spent decades at the intersection of energy, technology and industrial strategy. A nuclear engineer, complexity scientist and founding Dean of the School of Energy at Xiamen University, he is also credited with coining the term "Small Modular Reactor" nearly 20 years ago.
In this wide-ranging conversation with Bryony Worthington, Ning Li explains why China has weathered recen
How Wind Energy Overtook Nuclear in Just Two Decades | Ep261: Henrik Andersen
Today, wind power accounts for just under 10% of all electricity globally, around the same as solar, recently overtaking nuclear power. 20 years ago, the figure was under 1%.
In that time, the sector’s leadership has moved around from Europe to the US to Asia, but one specialist European manufacturer has stayed in the leading group throughout: Vestas — a member of the global wind energy aristocrac
RCP8.5 Is Dead, What Comes Next? Ep260: Roger Pielke, Jr.
For more than 15 years, the RCP8.5 climate scenario has shaped headlines, policy decisions, financial stress tests and public understanding of climate risk. Now, the scientific community has declared it implausible. So what comes next?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes Professor Roger Pielke Jr. back to explore why RCP 8.5 became the dominant "business as usual" climate scenario
Why Flexible Power Is Suddenly So Valuable | Ep259: Håkan Agnevall
As electricity demand rises and renewable generation continues to expand, the same question keeps arising: how do we keep power systems reliable, affordable and resilient?
This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Håkan Agnevall, CEO of Wärtsilä, to discuss the changing role of flexible generation in modern electricity systems, the growing importance of grid stability, and why balancing technologi
Can Anyone Catch China's Clean Tech Lead? Ep258: Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich
In this special episode of Cleaning Up from San Francisco Climate Week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack the geopolitical shocks reshaping the global energy transition.
From escalating tensions in the Gulf and their impact on oil and LNG markets, to China’s accelerating electrification revolution, the conversation explores how energy security, industrial strategy and climate ambitio
India’s Solar Revolution Is Bringing Cheap Energy To Millions | Ep257: Harish Hande
The energy system is not about supply and exports and generation and distribution. It's about how we use energy in our daily lives and workplaces.
The so-called energy trilemma, affordability versus reliability versus environmental performance looks very theoretical in the boardrooms of an NGO or a consulting company. But it's not theoretical at all for someone struggling to run their life, do the
Why Are We Electrifying So Slowly? The Electrification Staircase | Ep256: Adrian Hiel, Silvia Madeddu, William Drake & Thomas Butler
Every single scenario for the future that looks at a cleaner energy system has electrification growing to 60, 70, 80% or more, and yet we don't make rapid progress. Why?
One of the reasons we don't make progress lies in narratives and culture wars. We hear about heat pumps that don't work, we hear about electric vehicles that don't work, we hear that electrification can't work for high temperature
Europe Needs Clean Tech More Than Ever | Ep 255: Thomas Pellerin-Carlin
This week Cleaning Up is back in Brussels, with a deep dive into European energy policy as the continent grapples with the reality of ambitious climate targets, very high energy prices and the vulnerabilities of first Russia's attack on Ukraine, and Israel and the US's recent attack on Iran. Michael Liebreich sits down with a rising star of the European Parliament, Thomas Pellerin-Carlin, for a t
The Era Of Fossil Fuel Unreliability Has Begun | Ep 254: Jennifer Granholm
What happens when global energy supply chains can no longer be trusted? Has the U.S. given up its edge in the clean energy race to China? And can politics keep up with the speed of the energy transition and the rise of AI?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with former U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm for a wide-ranging conversation on the future of global energy, politic
The Mother of All Energy Crises | Ep253: Fatih Birol
The news agenda this year has been entirely dominated by energy related stories, whether it's the war in Europe being pursued by Russia — formerly Europe's most significant energy provider — the U.S. capturing the head of state of Venezuela — which has some of the biggest oil reserves in the world — or the ongoing attack by Israel and the U.S. on Iran and all its ramifications.
But there is also a
Energy Shocks, Inflation & Risk: How a Central Bank Responds to Crisis | Ep252: Pierre Wunsch
How should a central bank respond to energy shocks? Will high oil and gas prices bolster the uptake of renewables? And what is the true cost of net zero 2050?
This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Pierre Wunsch, Governor of the National Bank of Belgium and member of the European Central Bank’s governing council, for a candid, behind-the-scenes discussion about how central
Can We Cool The Planet, And Should We Try? | Ep251: Ricken Patel
What happens if we’re underestimating the speed and scale of climate risk? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Ricken Patel, Principal at Climate Hub & Founder of activist network Avaaz, to explore how to build successful climate movements, and the case for research into geoengineering.
Ricken argues that companies have been accidentally geoengineering since the turn of the
Heavy Engineering Solutions for High-Emission Problems | Ep250: Emmanouil Kakaras
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Emmanouil Kakaras, engineer, academic, and Senior Advisor at Mitsubishi Heavy Industries EMEA, for a grounded, technical conversation about the intersection of emissions and engineering: gas turbines pushing the limits of thermodynamics, the trade-offs between hydrogen, ammonia, and synthetic fuels, and why carbon capture keeps coming back i
Can We Stop Data Centres Breaking The Grid? Ep249: Varun Sivaram & Steve Smith
This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Varun Sivaram and Steve Smith to explore one of the most urgent, and overlooked, challenges of the AI revolution: how to power it without breaking the grid.
As AI demand explodes, hyperscale data centres are emerging as massive, inflexible loads, rivaling entire cities. But do they have to be a burden on the grid?
This conversation di
Are Fossil Fuel Cars About to Have Their Kodak Moment? Ep248: Fiona Howarth
What happens when millions of electric cars become part of the energy grid? And could the key to cheaper, cleaner power already be sitting in your driveway? And why are so many automakers pushing back against EV targets?
This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington speaks with Fiona Howarth, founder of Octopus Electric Vehicles, about the rapid transformation of the global car industry and t
Iran Will Reshape Oil, Gas & Clean Energy For Years To Come | Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich
Bryony Worthington and Michael Liebreich give their analysis of the impact of the conflict in Iran on global energy markets. How will it impact the Middle East, Europe, Asia, the US, and will it force countries back to coal, or accelerate the clean energy transition?
This episode was recorded Thursday March 5.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its foundin
How To Build Quickly In An Era of Fossil Fuel Shocks | Ep247: Hilde Tonne
How can we build out clean energy and infrastructure faster? Is Europe engineering its way to resilience, or pricing itself out of competitiveness? And can we redesign the entire system fast enough to keep up with AI, electrification and rising demand?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Hilde Tonne, Chair of Arup and former CEO of Statnett, to explore the hard realities be
The Audacious Plan To Build a Transatlantic Electricity Cable | Ep246: Laurent Segalen
This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with investor and energy strategist Laurent Segalen, co-host of the Redefining Energy podcast, for a sweeping conversation that spans carbon markets, uranium trading, battery innovation, and Laurent’s bold plan to connect Canada and Europe with a 5,000km subsea electricity cable.
Laurent shares the personal moments that shaped his obsessi
Why Renewables Are Booming Despite the Politics | Ep245: Miguel Stilwell d'Andrade
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Miguel Stilwell d’Andrade, CEO of EDP, one of the world’s leading clean energy companies.From the front lines of the energy transition, Miguel explains why electricity demand in the United States is exploding, driven by AI, data centres, and re-industrialisation, and why this could make renewables one of the most attractive investments of
The Billion-Tonne Promise of Carbon Dioxide Removal Isn't Working Out | Ep244: Robert Höglund
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with carbon removal insider Robert Höglund, CEO of Marginal Carbon, co-founder of CDR.fyi and architect of MilkyWire’s Climate Transformation Fund, for a deep dive into what’s working and what’s not in carbon dioxide removal and corporate climate action.Drawing on five years of hands-on experimentation funding everything from biochar to direct
The World Decides: Clean Energy or Oil & Gas? | Ep243: Damilola Ogunbiyi
What if the future of clean energy isn’t decided in Washington, Brussels, or Beijing, but in Lagos, Nairobi, and Addis Ababa? Are we underestimating how fast the Global South is leapfrogging fossil fuels? And what happens when clean energy becomes the cheapest, fastest path to development, not a climate sacrifice?In this episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined for a third time by Damil
The State of the Climate 2026 | Ep242: Zeke Hausfather
How do we model the climate system? How warm will 2026 be? And can geoengineering be anything more than a bandaid?
This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with leading climate scientist Dr. Zeke Hausfather on the day the 2025 global temperature data is released. Despite a La Niña year, the planet has just experienced one of its hottest years on record — pushing us ever closer to th
Is Africa Poised To Be A Clean Energy Powerhouse? Ep241: Clemens Calice
Why does Africa, home to 18% of the world’s population, receive just 1% of global energy investment? What’s stopping money from flowing to the continent when it has such good wind and solar potential? And what would it take to unlock an energy boom that benefits both Africa and Europe?Spread across 54 countries and with a combined GDP the size of Italy, Africa's population is young and growing rap
Climate Action vs Cost of Living: Can We Do Both? | Ep240: Katie White, UK Climate Minister
How do we build a clean energy system while bringing UK bills down? Can the UK’s landmark Climate Change Act stand up to a fractured climate politics? And does increasing global instability make home-grown energy more important than ever?This week’s episode of Cleaning Up comes to you from inside of the UK’s Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, where last week Bryony Worthington sat down w
Trump, Venezuela & The Future Of Clean Energy | Ep239: Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington
Is the link between oil and geopolitics starting to diminish? Has climate consensus fractured just as clean energy hits escape velocity? And are batteries, not barrels, becoming the true source of power and security?In the first episode of Season 17 of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack a turbulent start to 2026. From shock geopolitical moves in the Americas and riots in
Cleaning Up Redux: Canada's Controversial Queen of Green — Tzeporah Berman
This episode was originally broadcast in June 2023, watch the episode on YouTube here. Cleaning Up will return with new episodes January 7th, 2026. Tzeporah Berman has been leading environmental campaigns in her native Canada and beyond for over thirty years. Today, she is Chair of the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty, and International Program Director at Stand.earth, the environmental organi
Cleaning Up Redux: Hot Rocks in a Box — Anand Gopal
This episode was originally broadcast in June 2024.As the world transitions away from fossil fuels, one of the biggest challenges is decarbonizing industrial processes that require consistent, reliable sources of energy to produce high-temperatures. Typically these processes run on fossil gas, but now thermal batteries offer a solution by using electricity to store renewable energy in the form of
Stop Worrying About Clean Power, Start Electrifying Everything | Ep238: Lord Adair Turner
What will be the long-term impact of the US’s great leap backward on clean energy? How will the emergency of China as an electrotech giant reshape geopolitics? And what will be the defining trends and technologies of 2026?In this end-of-year episode of Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington is joined by Lord Adair Turner, Chair of the Energy Transitions Commission, for a wide-ranging, candid, an
Honey, I Shrunk the Oil And Gas Sector | Ep237: Lord John Browne
What happens when clean energy starts to outgrow fossil fuels at scale? Is it right to call China an electrostate? And how long will we be reliant on hydrocarbons?This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Lord Browne of Madingley — former CEO of BP and one of the earliest voices inside Big Oil to publicly call for emissions reductions from fossil fuels. Recorded in front of
Why Does The UK Pay So Much For Cheap-To-Produce Gas? | Ep236: Seb Kennedy
What happens when a nation’s energy security rests on volatile global gas markets? Why does the UK pay market prices for some of the world’s cheapest-to-produce gas? And is now the moment to rethink decades of “leave it to the market” dogma?This week on Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with Seb Kennedy, energy journalist and founder of Energy Flux, to unpack the turbulent geopoli
Inside Europe’s Largest AI Data Centre: A Green Giant Rises | Ep235: Robert Dunn
What does it take to build Europe’s largest and most sustainable data-centre campus, from an empty plot of land to a 1.2-gigawatt giant of AI? How do you future-proof a facility when chip technology is evolving at breakneck speed? And what happens when the site of former coal-fired power plant becomes a global hub for AI?In this special, on-location episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich visits
California vs Trump In The Battle For Clean Air | Ep234: Liane Randolph
What happens when the world’s most ambitious climate state runs head-on into a hostile federal government? Can California still lead the clean-energy transition while battling rising costs, wildfires and the Trump government’s sweeping tariffs? And what does a “pragmatic reset” on climate policy look like when the stakes have never been higher?This week on Cleaning Up Bryony Worthington sits down
The €65 Billion Plan to Modernise Germany’s Grids | Ep233: Tim Meyerjürgens
What does it take to future-proof Europe’s electricity grid? How do you finance €65 billion in infrastructure without driving up consumer electricity costs? And can the permitting process be sped up to become fast enough for the energy transition?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Tim Meyerjürgens, CEO of TenneT Germany, the country’s largest transmission system operator, t
Why There'll Never Be A Hydrogen Economy | Ep232: Erik Rakhou
Is green hydrogen a ‘miracle fuel’ or an expensive illusion? Can we decarbonize without it? And what happens when hydrogen hype meets hard economics?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich debates Erik Rakhou, author of Touching Hydrogen Future, in a no-holds-barred discussion moderated by Andrew Critchlow of S&P Global Commodity Insights.Together, they contest one of the most contentious topi
The Electrotech Revolution Will Not Be Fossilized | Ep231: Kingsmill Bond
What if the energy transition isn’t about sacrifice and belt-tightening, but abundance? Are electrified technologies ready to replace the polluting fossil fuel system we’re so reliant on? And what will it mean for western nations if they can’t keep up with China? In this special bonus episode of Cleaning Up, recorded live in Berlin, Michael Liebreich sits down with Kingsmill Bond, strategist at Em
COP30: Caught Between An Electrostate and A Petrostate | Ep230: Rachel Kyte
This week on Cleaning Up, we welcome back Rachel Kyte, the UK’s Special Representative for Climate Change, for a deep dive into the shifting landscape of global climate diplomacy ahead of COP30 in Belém, Brazil.Rachel brings decades of experience — from leading Sustainable Energy for All under Ban Ki-Moon to senior roles at the World Bank and IFC — to unpack how countries, investors, and instituti
The US Just Sank Shipping's Big Plan for Decarbonization, What Now? | Ep229: Tristan Smith
Global shipping contributes about 3% of global greenhouse gas emissions, equivalent to the total emissions of Japan or Germany. The sector, including its contribution to climate change, is governed by the International Maritime Organisation or the IMO, which is a UN agency based in London in the United Kingdom.Last week, the International Maritime Organisation gathered to vote on a proposal to red
How To Move Away From Fossil Fuels Faster — Bryony Grills Michael on The Pragmatic Climate Reset | Ep228
This summer, Michael Liebreich wrote two essays under the title of the Pragmatic Climate Reset. The first challenged the idea that the clean energy transition has failed. And the second challenged the clean energy and climate community to a reset, exploring eight areas which he thinks the transition has gone astray.In this special episode, Bryony Worthington sits down with Michael Liebreich, to un
The £60 Billion Plan To Rewire Britain | Ep227: John Pettigrew
What does it take to rewire a nation’s energy system? Can we make the grid cleaner, smarter, and more resilient — without driving up bills? And how will the explosion of AI data centres reshape the future of electricity demand?This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with John Pettigrew, outgoing CEO of National Grid, for a candid conversation marking the end of his 35-year caree
What India Gets Right About The Energy Transition | Ep226: Dr Arunabha Ghosh
What does it take for India to deliver electricity to hundreds of millions while simultaneously building a fast-growing clean energy system? Can it overcome its fossil dependence to secure its energy futures with renewables? And how will India’s development choices shape the global climate fight in the decades ahead?India, like China, is home to over a billion people, and is highly reliant on impo
Can We Save the Great Barrier Reef? | Ep225: Dr Katharina Fabricius
Why should we care about coral reefs? What happens when they collapse? And is there still hope for their survival?In this episode of Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with coral reef ecologist Dr. Katharina Fabricius, who has witnessed six mass bleaching events on the Great Barrier Reef over her three decades of research.From the “seven sins of climate change” threatening reefs — heat wave
Audioblog 16: The Pragmatic Climate Reset, Part II — A Provocation
The election of Donald Trump to a second term as President marked a turning point in the politics of climate action – not just in the US, but around the world.The airwaves are suddenly awash with commentators, claiming that the transition has failed, that it was always a fool’s errand, and that we must resign ourselves to a fossil-based future forever.The narratives of failure all revel in pointin
Less Doom, More Data: Debunking the Biggest Climate Myths | Ep223: Dr. Hannah Ritchie
Is the future of clean energy and climate solutions brighter than we think? In this episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes back Hannah Ritchie — Deputy Editor at Our World in Data, researcher at the Oxford Martin School, and author of her new book, Clearing the Air.In Clearing the Air, Hannah tackles 50 of the most common myths and misconceptions about climate solutions, from “Isn’t cl
Malcolm Turnbull: Clean Energy Culture Wars and The Race To Build More Storage | Ep 222
What happens when cheap solar flips the script on climate sceptics? Can pumped hydro really deliver the long-duration storage we need? And is “hope” a dangerous comforter in the race to net zero?In this season opener of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Malcolm Turnbull — former Prime Minister of Australia, lawyer, statesman, energy investor, and climate champion. From leading Australi
Cleaning Up Redux: A Magnificent Woman And Her Flying Machines - Bonny Simi
This episode was originally broadcast in February 2024Bryony returns with Bonny Simi, President of Operations at Joby Aviation, where she's working on bringing to market a new civilian electric VTOL (eVTOL) aircraft. Prior to joining the team at Joby, Bonny held several operational and strategic roles at JetBlue Most notably, she founded and led JetBlue Technology Ventures, investing in improving
Cleaning Up Redux: From Free Solo to Free Solar — Alex Honnold
This episode was originally broadcast in April 2022Alex Honnold is one of the world’s best rock climbers, famous for his free solo ascents of big walls, including his 2017 first free solo of El Capitan in Yosemite.Alex began studies in engineering at the University of California-Berkeley but dropped out to pursue his passion for climbing, living out of his van. He first attracted attention within
The Inevitable End of Fossil Fuels | Ep221: Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington
What if the energy transition isn't a race, but a steady march toward the end of fossil fuel usage? Do we need to move more like the tortoise, and less like the hare? And in a world of competing narratives, who gets to define "pragmatism"?In this season finale of Cleaning Up, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack these questions as they review Season 15's most compelling conversati
Audioblog 15: The Pragmatic Climate Reset Part 1 — The Energy Transition Is Not Dead
In February, veteran fossil industry advisor Dan Yergin and two co-authors published a piece called The Troubled Transition. In it they dismiss the idea that there is or can ever be an energy transition, anchored on the fact that fossil fuels contributed 85% to so-called primary energy in 1990 and still contribute 80% today. Needless to say, their argument has been widely amplified by the oil and
The Inflation Induction Act: How the US Lost The Race for Clean Energy | Ep 219: Ethan Zindler
Is the US about to enter a new era of energy inflation? Can technological progress outpace political regression? Are we witnessing the permanent end of America's climate ambitions?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Ethan Zindler, former climate counselor to Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, now head of countries and policy at BloombergNEF, to dissect the dramatic shifts in U
North Sea Oil & Gas Is Dying, What Comes Next? | Ep218: Tessa Khan
If the UK can’t ditch fossil fuels, who can? What impact would more drilling in the North Sea have for UK energy prices? What does the end of the net zero consensus mean for UK energy policy?This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with Tessa Khan, founder of Uplift, a charity challenging the oil and gas industry's hold on UK energy policy. A lawyer turned campaigner, Khan offe
How Fungi Shape Our World, From Carbon Sinks to Zombie TV: | Ep217: Merlin Sheldrake
What if the key to solving our climate crisis lies beneath our feet? Could tiny fungal networks be the unsung heroes of carbon sequestration? And how might reimagining our relationship with fungi transform our understanding of life on Earth? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Merlin Sheldrake, author of the bestselling "Entangled Life," to explore the extraordinary world o
The Best Markets for Wind and Solar Are Not Where You Think | Ep216: Daniel Calderon
In a world where 17% of all electricity is generated from wind and solar and where 93% of all new capacity added to the grid is from renewables, it can be easy to forget that countries got their first wind and solar resources within just the last few years. And in fact, some countries are still waiting for their first. Today on Cleaning Up, we’re joined by Daniel Calderon, Founder and Managing Par
NVIDIA Rising: Will The AI Boom Bust The Planet? | Ep215: Josh Parker
In 1849, when the Gold Rush hit California, the people who were certain to make money were not the miners, but the sellers of picks and shovels. Indeed, America's first millionaire, Samuel Brannan, made his fortune by adding huge margins to everyday items that suddenly become high in demand. Today's sellers of picks and shovels are those providing the hardware and infrastructure to the software an
Is There A Future Without Oil & Gas? Ep214: Ben van Beurden
Oil and gas companies lie at the heart of the energy transition. To some, they are heroes, continuing to power human progress despite all the odds. To some, they are villains, responsible for the climate change that is devastating our planet. This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich interviews Ben van Beurden, former CEO of Shell from 2014 to 2023. The conversation explores the complexities of
Deforestation, Oil and Aviation Fuels: A Brazilian Take on the Climate Emergency | Ep213: Thelma Krug
What happens if the Amazon rainforest stops absorbing carbon and starts releasing it? Do we need geoengineering to help us cool an overheating planet? And how can developing countries balance environmental preservation with economic development?This week on Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with Thelma Krug, a renowned Brazilian scientist and mathematician, and former vice chair o
Hydrogen Subsidies, Clean Power & Fixing Spain's Blackouts | Ep212: EU Commissioner Dan Jørgensen
What will it take to finally wean Europe off Russian gas? Can renewables help with grid stability? And is the EU making a mistake subsidising hydrogen? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with EU Energy and Housing Commissioner Dan Jørgensen to dissect the continent's energy transformation. In this wide ranging interview recorded at the Berlaymont building in Brussels — the home
Renewables Are Here To Stay. Get Over It. | Ep211: Antonio Cammisecra
The world's electricity system is transforming: We're integrating more and more variable renewables. Fossil plants are running fewer hours. Demand is growing everywhere, including in the developed world, as we electrify transport and heating, and AI data centers elbow their way onto the grid. Some people find this very threatening but not Antonio Cammisecra, CEO of ContourGlobal. CounterGlobal is
Is The Tide Turning On Hydrogen? Ep210: Andrew Forrest
Billionaire iron magnate Andrew Forrest believes he's on the cusp of a breakthrough to decarbonise shipping and heavy industry using hydrogen. As the Executive Chairman of the Fortescue, one of the world's largest iron ore companies, Andrew Forrest is not an easy to pigeonhole industrial billionaire. He built Fortescue into a hugely successful company, partly thanks to his belief in taking unconve
Bond Vigilantes, Game Theory, And Why The US Shouldn’t Go It Alone - Ep209: Mohamed El-Erian
Have the bond markets become a new form of global governance? Are we witnessing the end of US economic exceptionalism? And how does game theory relate to cooperation on net-zero?This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with renowned economist Mohamed El-Erian to unpack the complex intersections of global finance, politics, and climate change. El-Erian offers insights into the current
Can You Run a Grid Entirely On Renewables? Ep208: Anders Lindberg
Can You Run A Grid Without Fossil Fuels? "Yes," says Anders Lindberg, President of Energy and Executive VP at Wärtsilä, on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. It'll just cost €65 trillion extra by 2050. Anders' team at Wärtsilä has recently published its Crossroads to Net Zero report, which argues that keeping a little bit of flexible generation on the grid will save huge amounts of money as the g
Is Geothermal The Future For Oil & Gas? Ep207: Jamie Beard
Geothermal seems to have found new favour under Donald Trump's presidency, but can it ever live up to its potential? Will the oil and gas industry reinvent itself before becoming obsolete? And how might geothermal energy change the global energy landscape?This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington talks to Jamie Beard, founder of Project InnerSpace, about why geothermal energy has never lived up
Uniper Rising: Can Germany's Gas Giant Go Green? Ep206: Michael Lewis
When Russia unleashed its illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, gas prices in Europe spiked by a factor of 10, driving a wave of bankruptcies and restructurings of European energy companies. Uniper was one of those. Uniper is one of Germany's largest energy companies. It is active across more than 40 countries and has 19.5 GW of power generation capacity to its name. It was
Trump vs The Transition, The Pope’s Climate Legacy & The High Price of UK Electricity — Ep205
In 100 short days, the world has transformed. Since the reelection of President Donald Trump, US federal climate policy has largely been abandoned, with the government seeking to reopen coal-fired power plants and lower environmental standards. An escalating trade war and global tariffs has sent the rest of the world reeling and threatened the global financial system with collapse. China has come
We Built a Solar System That's Saving Babies’ Lives — Ep204: Project Bo, Sierra Leone
In Sierra Leone, a 20-minute power cut can be the difference between life and death for newborn babies. In 2013, an extraordinary doctor called Dr Niall Conroy set up a neonatal intensive care unit at the Bo Government Hospital, in Sierra Leone's second largest city, and set about training the staff to give the best possible care to the desperately vulnerable babies who were admitted. But there wa
What Happened to Google's Climate Ambitions? | Ep203: Kate Brandt
Google has one of the most ambitious climate targets in the tech world, but what happens if it falls short of its goals? How does the company balance innovation with environmental responsibility? And can AI really help reduce emissions? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Kate Brandt, Google's Chief Sustainability Officer, to unpack these critical questions. Brandt offers a
Net Zero Isn’t Impossible, It’s The Key To UK Prosperity — Ep202: Emma Pinchbeck
The UK is an extraordinary case study in how to cut greenhouse gas pollution successfully. Since 1990, the country has more than halved its greenhouse gas emissions, while the economy has grown by over 80%. The Climate Change Act, passed in 2008, has helped steer the UK towards its net-zero goals, setting five yearly carbon budgets that are specifically designed to be ambitious but flexible, with
Can Europe Survive the Transition To Renewables? Ep201: Nikos Tsafos
How does Europe get cheap energy again? Are climate goals at odds with the need to remain economically competitive? Are we about to see an empowered and emboldened Europe, ready to take on China and the US?Barely five years into the 2020s, this decade is already shaping up to be one of the most turbulent since the Second World War. As we record this episode, the US has just slapped 25% tariffs on
Making America Dumb Again: The Stakes of Slashing Climate Science — Ep200: Ralph Keeling & Ray Weiss
As the U.S. swings a budgetary axe at the federal government, one of the biggest casualties is climate science. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) faces a brutal 20% workforce reduction—jeopardizing critical research just when we need it most. So, what’s really at stake? And is Donald Trump Making America Dumb Again?This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington takes us
EVs & Heat Pumps: The Real Alternatives for Germany — Ep199: Patrick Graichen
In February, Germany elected a new government. Friedrich Merz emerged as the new leader, but what are his energy and climate policies, and will Germany remain a climate leader in Europe and beyond?Joining Cleaning Up this week is Patrick Graichen, a former Energy and Climate minister in the last government, representing the Green Party. Prior to entering government, Patrick ran the think tank Agor
The Future of Clean Tech Under Trump — Ep198: Jigar Shah
How can the U.S. government bridge the gap between clean energy innovation and large-scale deployment? Will the Trump administration accelerate progress or put up roadblocks for clean tech? And how can the U.S. stay competitive with China, which already holds a commanding lead in the sector? Jigar Shah joins Cleaning Up fresh from his four-year tenure as Director of the U.S. Department of Energy's
The Fossil Fuel Endgame: Inside The Non-Proliferation Treaty — Ep197: Kumi Naidoo
How can climate activists be more successful in 2025? And where have they gone wrong? Kumi Naidoo has a storied career as an activist. At just 15 years old, he started out as an anti-apartheid campaigner and organiser in South Africa, before fleeing the country and attending Oxford University as a Rhodes Scholar, where he received a PhD for his research into the resistance movement in South Africa
A Clean Energy Playbook For The Global South — Ep196: Lucy Heintz
The global south needs to build out vast amounts of clean energy, and requires hundreds of billions of dollars annually to do. And yet, only a fraction of the investment going into clean energy and the net-zero transition is flowing into those growth markets. So why are so few investing?Lucy Heintz is partner and head of energy infrastructure at Actis, whose most recent Energy Fund represents over
Are Big Investors Abandoning Climate Progress? — Ep195: David Blood
Just a few short years ago, sustainable finance and sustainable investing were all the rage. The Glasgow Financial Alliance For Net Zero (GFANZ) boasted financial players controlling $140 trillion. Things have not been quite as smooth since: There's been extensive pushback, starting from the red states in the US, but spreading from there against ESG. And of course, sustainable finance and sustaina
First Cars, Now Planes: Is The Future of Flying Electric? Ep194: Anders Forslund
Aviation accounts for around 2-3% of global emissions, and is showing no sign of decreasing. There has been a lot of focus on replacement fuels, but no real paradigm shift in the industry. Anders Forslund has a plan to change that. Anders is the CEO of Heart Aerospace, the Swedish airplane developers who've recently established an R&D facility in California to develop their 30 seater hybrid-electr
Audioblog 14: Generative AI — The Power and the Glory
Will AI be a disaster for the climate, or a saviour in disguise? How is AI reshaping power needs around the world? And does a lack of clean electricity spell the end of the AI dream, or a new round of fossil-fuel reliant data centres? All this, and more in the audio adaptation of Michel's article for BloombergNEF: Generative AI: The Power and the Glory. Read the full piece at: https://about.bnef.c
Five Years In, How Has The Bezos Earth Fund Used Its Billions? Ep192: Dr. Andrew Steer
How can $10 billion be spent most effectively to address the climate and nature crises? What role can philanthropy play in driving systemic change? And how can new technologies like AI be leveraged to accelerate climate solutions? This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with Dr. Andrew Steer, President and CEO of the Bezos Earth Fund, to explore these critical questions. Establ
Petrostate USA vs Electrostate China — Place Your Bets | Ep191
Happy New Year and welcome to Season 14 of Cleaning Up. From the future of nuclear to growing tensions between China and the USA, we're off with a bang with a conversation between hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington. They reflect on the key trends of 2024, and looking ahead to what might be on the cards in 2025, from China's rapid electrification to political upheaval in the US. Bryony
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