Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change
Once a week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington have a conversation with a leader in clean energy, mobility, climate finance or sustainable development. Informative, inspiring and fun!
Episodes
How Energy Security Became National Security | Ep278: Alexander De Croo
The world is facing a new era of geopolitical instability, rising energy costs and declining development finance. For many countries, access to reliable, affordable energy is no longer just an economic priority, it is a question of security.Recorded in New York during the United Nations General Assembly and Climate Week, this episode of Cleaning Up sees guest host Ana Rovzar, Chief of Staff at the
How Ukraine Can Survive Another Brutal Winter | Ukraine Deep Dive 01
It's been over four and a half years since Russia unleashed its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and still the war shows no sign of stopping. This week on Cleaning Up, we launch a new Deep Dive looking at Ukraine and how its people and energy systems cope through the war.In this first episode, Michael Liebreich travels to Kyiv to find out what is happening on the ground. How are people coping with
Is Nuclear Fusion About To Have A Theranos Moment? Ep 277: Sir Steven Cowley
There's an old joke that energy from nuclear fusion is 30 years away and always will be. For many decades, the industry did little to spoil the fun, running mammoth and unwieldy research projects, hoovering up a few billion dollars every science funding cycle and announcing breakthroughs that were scientifically interesting, but did little to move us towards actual production of electricity.Then t
Is The Earth Warming Faster Than We Thought? | Ep276: Peter Cox
This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington is joined by Peter Cox, Professor of Climate System Dynamics at the University of Exeter and Director of the Global Systems Institute. A former lead author of the IPCC climate reports, Peter has spent decades studying the complex feedbacks between the climate, carbon cycle and natural world.
They delve into some of the biggest questions in climate scie
The Scandal at The Heart of The Energy Transition | Ep275: Jan Rosenow
Around two-thirds of the energy we put into today’s energy system ends up as rejected heat. So are we measuring the energy transition all wrong?Professor Jan Rosenow joins Michael Liebreich to unpack the “primary energy fallacy”: why focusing on the energy going into the system can obscure the useful energy we actually get out.They explore why electrification can dramatically reduce energy demand,
The Race Is On To Control AI | Episode 274: Afonso Salema & Sam Winter-Levy
More than 80% of the world’s advanced AI compute is concentrated in the US and China. For Europe and other middle powers, the question may no longer be how to win the AI race, but how to avoid becoming dangerously dependent on those that do.This week on Cleaning Up, James Cameron, Chair of Cleaning Up’s Editorial Council, takes over as guest host. He speaks with Sam Winter-Levy, Senior Fellow at t
Mexico Wants To Build An $8,000 EV For Everyone | Ep273: Roberto Capuano
Can Mexico build an electric car for $8,000, and use it to create an entirely new domestic industry? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington visits Mexico City to sit down with Roberto Capuano, director of the Olinia Project, and discuss the state-backed effort to develop a new generation of affordable electric mini-vehicles. Roberto explains why Olinia is designing small EVs specificall
The Testbed for Asia's Clean-Tech Future | Ep272: Jaime Z. Urquijo
Can the Philippines become a testbed for Southeast Asia’s clean-tech future?
Kicking off Season 19 of Cleaning Up, guest host Marie Cheong meets Jaime Z. Urquijo, Urban Estates Group Head at Ayala Land, one of the Philippines is largest real estate and development companies.
Ayala Land is a subsidiary of the Ayala Corporation, which has been part of the Philippines' economic story for
The Good, Bad and Downright Ugly of Australia's Energy Transition | Deep Dive Australia 09: Anna Freeman & Michael Liebreich
Australia has become a laboratory for the energy transition, what can the rest of the world learn? After two weeks travelling across Australia and meeting the leaders shaping its energy transition, Michael Liebreich got a close up view of the country’s transformation.
For the final episode of Cleaning Up’s Deep Dive Australia series, the host becomes the guest as Anna Freeman of the Energy E
The Next Frontier of Electrification? Industrial Heat | Ep271: James Macnaghten
Around the world, factories making food, drink, pharmaceuticals and other everyday products rely on steam, often produced by fossil-fuel boilers. James Macnaghten, founder and CEO of Caldera, is betting that thermal batteries can provide a cheaper and more flexible alternative that stores electricity as heat, and delivers steam on demand.
This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington visits Caldera
How Much Better Can Solar Get? Deep Dive Australia 08: Martin Green
Solar was once dismissed as a marginal technology. Today, it is transforming the global energy system, and few people have done more to make that possible than Professor Martin Green. Innovations developed by Green and his research group can now be found in over 90% of all the solar panels in use today
One of the pioneers of modern solar power, Green’s research has helped make solar panels dramati
AI Has An Electricity Problem | Ep270: Arshad Mansoor
Will AI break the grid? As hyperscalers race to build ever-larger data centres, electricity demand is soaring. The question is no longer whether power demand will grow, but by how much, how quickly, and whether the grid can deliver.
This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Arshad Mansoor, President & CEO of the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI), one of the world's leading energy research o
How Renewables Are Replacing Australia's Ageing Coal Fleet | Deep Dive Australia 07: Paul Simshauser
Australia has one of the world's fastest-moving electricity systems. It leads the world in rooftop solar, has deployed grid-scale batteries at extraordinary speed, and is now starting to replace its ageing coal fleet with cleaner sources of energy. But as renewable costs rise and electricity demand grows, can the transition remain affordable while maintaining a reliable power system?
This week on
The Unseen Agents of Climate Change | Ep269: David Kirchman
Microbes rarely feature in discussions about climate change, yet they play a central role in regulating greenhouse gases through the Earth's carbon, methane and nitrogen cycles. As the climate changes, understanding these natural processes is becoming increasingly important to develop new approaches to clean energy, agriculture and emissions reduction.
This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington
Why The Transition Hasn't Made Australians Rich Yet | Deep Dive Australia 06: David Pocock
David Pocock is one of Australia's most influential politicians, working as the Senator of the Australian Capital Territory. He brings a distinctive perspective to some of the country's biggest debates, from climate policy and energy security to democratic reform and the future of work.
A former captain of the Australian rugby team, David entered politics after years of speaking out on issues incl
The Crisis Forcing An Energy Revolution | Ep268: Jonathan Maxwell
The UK is heavily exposed to global energy markets and has some of the highest electricity prices in Europe. At the same time, vast amounts of heat generated across industry and infrastructure go unused. Whether it should be called "waste" is a matter of debate, but could making better use of the energy we already produce be one of the biggest untapped opportunities in the energy transition?
This
Can Australia Become A Clean Tech Superpower? Deep Dive Australia 05: Ross Garnaut
Across huge swathes of the global economy, clean solutions are already cheaper than their fossil alternatives, and so a carbon price isn’t needed. But in other sections of the economy, the costs of green tech are higher, and so carbon pricing will be needed to make them cost competitive. But what should that price be, and how can it be successfully implemented?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Li
How Norway Became A Global Gas Giant | Ep267: Anders Opedal
At the beginning of 2022, Europe was sourcing around 40% of its gas from Russia. By the end of this year, no more gas should be flowing from Russia into Europe.
Much of that shortfall has been replaced by production from the vast oil and gas fields of Norway's North Sea continental shelf. And this year, the closure of the Strait of Hormuz again highlighted the importance of Norway to Europe's res
Is Australia Finally Turning Its Back on Coal? Lily D'Ambrosio | Deep Dive Australia 04
Victoria is undertaking one of Australia's most ambitious electricity transitions. The state is aiming for 65% renewable electricity by 2030 and 95% by 2035, replacing ageing coal-fired power stations with renewable electricity, batteries and offshore wind while keeping the lights on and consumers' bills down.
This week on Cleaning Up’s Deep Dive Australia, Michael Liebreich is joined by Lily D'Am
Batteries Are The Killer Tech Of The Energy Transition | Ep267: Alex Shoer
China transformed solar from one of the world's most expensive energy technologies into the cheapest source of electricity in just a couple of decades. And now it’s doing the same with batteries, with prices plummeting around the world.
This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington is joined by Alex Shoer, Managing Director of GridVest, who spent almost a decade building renewable energy businesses
Are Solar And Batteries Undermining Australia’s Grid? Deep Dive Australia 03: Marc England
Australia's electricity networks are entering a new era. As rooftop solar, battery storage and electric vehicles demand reshape the grid, the role of distribution networks is changing from simply delivering electricity to actively enabling a smarter, more resilient and affordable energy system.
For the third episode of our Deep Dive Australia series, Michael sits down with Marc England, CEO of Au
Southeast Asia's Leapfrog to Clean Tech | Ep265: Marie Cheong
South and Southeast Asia face a different challenge to many developed economies. As the regions continue to grow, so too does demand for energy, transport and industry. The question is whether that growth can be powered by cleaner technologies from the start.
In the second of our episodes recorded from Singapore, Michael meets Marie Cheong, founding partner at 100x100, a climate tech venture build
Australia Loves Solar, So Why The Diesel Addiction? Deep Dive Australia 02: Chris Bowen
Australia is navigating an extraordinarily complex energy transition. It is both a major exporter of fossil fuels and a global leader in rooftop solar, while recent disruption to fuel supplies has reinforced the importance of energy security alongside decarbonisation. As the country prepares to co-host COP31 alongside Türkiye, the choices it makes will have implications well beyond its borders.
Th
Can Asia Ever Move Beyond Coal? | Ep264: Ravi Menon
Singapore is one of the smallest countries in the world, yet plays a unique role as one of Asia’s main financial and oil refining hubs. So how is it using its influence to help or hinder the transition?
Ravi Menon has spent his career at the heart of Singapore’s economic and financial strategy, serving as Managing Director of the Monetary Authority of Singapore (the country’s central bank) before
How Australia Became The World's Battery Champion | Deep Dive Australia 01: Darren Miller
Today, Cleaning Up launches its Deep Dive Australia series. Featuring conversations with nine leaders of the climate and clean energy scene, the series explores where Australia is leading the world, where it is not, and how it got there.
This is an important moment for Australia. The country was extraordinarily exposed to the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, being the largest per capita importer o
How The US Makes and Breaks Global Deals | Ep263: John Kerry
Since Donald Trump returned to the Presidency in 2025, the US has become increasingly isolationist. It has pulled out of the Paris climate agreement and the IPCC, left the World Health Organisation, as well as a whole host of other international organisations and agencies. So, when President Trump leaves the White House, will the US be able to rebuild trust on the international stage?
This week on
Build Fast, Build Now: How China Became an Energy Superpower | Ep262: Professor Ning Li
Professor Ning Li has spent decades at the intersection of energy, technology and industrial strategy. A nuclear engineer, complexity scientist and founding Dean of the School of Energy at Xiamen University, he is also credited with coining the term "Small Modular Reactor" nearly 20 years ago.
In this wide-ranging conversation with Bryony Worthington, Ning Li explains why China has weathered recen
How Wind Energy Overtook Nuclear in Just Two Decades | Ep261: Henrik Andersen
Today, wind power accounts for just under 10% of all electricity globally, around the same as solar, recently overtaking nuclear power. 20 years ago, the figure was under 1%.
In that time, the sector’s leadership has moved around from Europe to the US to Asia, but one specialist European manufacturer has stayed in the leading group throughout: Vestas — a member of the global wind energy aristocrac
RCP8.5 Is Dead, What Comes Next? Ep260: Roger Pielke, Jr.
For more than 15 years, the RCP8.5 climate scenario has shaped headlines, policy decisions, financial stress tests and public understanding of climate risk. Now, the scientific community has declared it implausible. So what comes next?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes Professor Roger Pielke Jr. back to explore why RCP 8.5 became the dominant "business as usual" climate scenario
Why Flexible Power Is Suddenly So Valuable | Ep259: Håkan Agnevall
As electricity demand rises and renewable generation continues to expand, the same question keeps arising: how do we keep power systems reliable, affordable and resilient?
This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Håkan Agnevall, CEO of Wärtsilä, to discuss the changing role of flexible generation in modern electricity systems, the growing importance of grid stability, and why balancing technologi
Can Anyone Catch China's Clean Tech Lead? Ep258: Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich
In this special episode of Cleaning Up from San Francisco Climate Week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack the geopolitical shocks reshaping the global energy transition.
From escalating tensions in the Gulf and their impact on oil and LNG markets, to China’s accelerating electrification revolution, the conversation explores how energy security, industrial strategy and climate ambitio
India’s Solar Revolution Is Bringing Cheap Energy To Millions | Ep257: Harish Hande
The energy system is not about supply and exports and generation and distribution. It's about how we use energy in our daily lives and workplaces.
The so-called energy trilemma, affordability versus reliability versus environmental performance looks very theoretical in the boardrooms of an NGO or a consulting company. But it's not theoretical at all for someone struggling to run their life, do the
Why Are We Electrifying So Slowly? The Electrification Staircase | Ep256: Adrian Hiel, Silvia Madeddu, William Drake & Thomas Butler
Every single scenario for the future that looks at a cleaner energy system has electrification growing to 60, 70, 80% or more, and yet we don't make rapid progress. Why?
One of the reasons we don't make progress lies in narratives and culture wars. We hear about heat pumps that don't work, we hear about electric vehicles that don't work, we hear that electrification can't work for high temperature
Europe Needs Clean Tech More Than Ever | Ep 255: Thomas Pellerin-Carlin
This week Cleaning Up is back in Brussels, with a deep dive into European energy policy as the continent grapples with the reality of ambitious climate targets, very high energy prices and the vulnerabilities of first Russia's attack on Ukraine, and Israel and the US's recent attack on Iran. Michael Liebreich sits down with a rising star of the European Parliament, Thomas Pellerin-Carlin, for a t
The Era Of Fossil Fuel Unreliability Has Begun | Ep 254: Jennifer Granholm
What happens when global energy supply chains can no longer be trusted? Has the U.S. given up its edge in the clean energy race to China? And can politics keep up with the speed of the energy transition and the rise of AI?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with former U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm for a wide-ranging conversation on the future of global energy, politic
The Mother of All Energy Crises | Ep253: Fatih Birol
The news agenda this year has been entirely dominated by energy related stories, whether it's the war in Europe being pursued by Russia — formerly Europe's most significant energy provider — the U.S. capturing the head of state of Venezuela — which has some of the biggest oil reserves in the world — or the ongoing attack by Israel and the U.S. on Iran and all its ramifications.
But there is also a
Energy Shocks, Inflation & Risk: How a Central Bank Responds to Crisis | Ep252: Pierre Wunsch
How should a central bank respond to energy shocks? Will high oil and gas prices bolster the uptake of renewables? And what is the true cost of net zero 2050?
This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Pierre Wunsch, Governor of the National Bank of Belgium and member of the European Central Bank’s governing council, for a candid, behind-the-scenes discussion about how central
Can We Cool The Planet, And Should We Try? | Ep251: Ricken Patel
What happens if we’re underestimating the speed and scale of climate risk? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Ricken Patel, Principal at Climate Hub & Founder of activist network Avaaz, to explore how to build successful climate movements, and the case for research into geoengineering.
Ricken argues that companies have been accidentally geoengineering since the turn of the
Heavy Engineering Solutions for High-Emission Problems | Ep250: Emmanouil Kakaras
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Emmanouil Kakaras, engineer, academic, and Senior Advisor at Mitsubishi Heavy Industries EMEA, for a grounded, technical conversation about the intersection of emissions and engineering: gas turbines pushing the limits of thermodynamics, the trade-offs between hydrogen, ammonia, and synthetic fuels, and why carbon capture keeps coming back i
Can We Stop Data Centres Breaking The Grid? Ep249: Varun Sivaram & Steve Smith
This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Varun Sivaram and Steve Smith to explore one of the most urgent, and overlooked, challenges of the AI revolution: how to power it without breaking the grid.
As AI demand explodes, hyperscale data centres are emerging as massive, inflexible loads, rivaling entire cities. But do they have to be a burden on the grid?
This conversation di
Are Fossil Fuel Cars About to Have Their Kodak Moment? Ep248: Fiona Howarth
What happens when millions of electric cars become part of the energy grid? And could the key to cheaper, cleaner power already be sitting in your driveway? And why are so many automakers pushing back against EV targets?
This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington speaks with Fiona Howarth, founder of Octopus Electric Vehicles, about the rapid transformation of the global car industry and t
Iran Will Reshape Oil, Gas & Clean Energy For Years To Come | Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich
Bryony Worthington and Michael Liebreich give their analysis of the impact of the conflict in Iran on global energy markets. How will it impact the Middle East, Europe, Asia, the US, and will it force countries back to coal, or accelerate the clean energy transition?
This episode was recorded Thursday March 5.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its foundin
How To Build Quickly In An Era of Fossil Fuel Shocks | Ep247: Hilde Tonne
How can we build out clean energy and infrastructure faster? Is Europe engineering its way to resilience, or pricing itself out of competitiveness? And can we redesign the entire system fast enough to keep up with AI, electrification and rising demand?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Hilde Tonne, Chair of Arup and former CEO of Statnett, to explore the hard realities be
The Audacious Plan To Build a Transatlantic Electricity Cable | Ep246: Laurent Segalen
This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with investor and energy strategist Laurent Segalen, co-host of the Redefining Energy podcast, for a sweeping conversation that spans carbon markets, uranium trading, battery innovation, and Laurent’s bold plan to connect Canada and Europe with a 5,000km subsea electricity cable.
Laurent shares the personal moments that shaped his obsessi
Why Renewables Are Booming Despite the Politics | Ep245: Miguel Stilwell d'Andrade
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Miguel Stilwell d’Andrade, CEO of EDP, one of the world’s leading clean energy companies.From the front lines of the energy transition, Miguel explains why electricity demand in the United States is exploding, driven by AI, data centres, and re-industrialisation, and why this could make renewables one of the most attractive investments of
The Billion-Tonne Promise of Carbon Dioxide Removal Isn't Working Out | Ep244: Robert Höglund
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with carbon removal insider Robert Höglund, CEO of Marginal Carbon, co-founder of CDR.fyi and architect of MilkyWire’s Climate Transformation Fund, for a deep dive into what’s working and what’s not in carbon dioxide removal and corporate climate action.Drawing on five years of hands-on experimentation funding everything from biochar to direct
The World Decides: Clean Energy or Oil & Gas? | Ep243: Damilola Ogunbiyi
What if the future of clean energy isn’t decided in Washington, Brussels, or Beijing, but in Lagos, Nairobi, and Addis Ababa? Are we underestimating how fast the Global South is leapfrogging fossil fuels? And what happens when clean energy becomes the cheapest, fastest path to development, not a climate sacrifice?In this episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined for a third time by Damil
The State of the Climate 2026 | Ep242: Zeke Hausfather
How do we model the climate system? How warm will 2026 be? And can geoengineering be anything more than a bandaid?
This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with leading climate scientist Dr. Zeke Hausfather on the day the 2025 global temperature data is released. Despite a La Niña year, the planet has just experienced one of its hottest years on record — pushing us ever closer to th
Is Africa Poised To Be A Clean Energy Powerhouse? Ep241: Clemens Calice
Why does Africa, home to 18% of the world’s population, receive just 1% of global energy investment? What’s stopping money from flowing to the continent when it has such good wind and solar potential? And what would it take to unlock an energy boom that benefits both Africa and Europe?Spread across 54 countries and with a combined GDP the size of Italy, Africa's population is young and growing rap
Climate Action vs Cost of Living: Can We Do Both? | Ep240: Katie White, UK Climate Minister
How do we build a clean energy system while bringing UK bills down? Can the UK’s landmark Climate Change Act stand up to a fractured climate politics? And does increasing global instability make home-grown energy more important than ever?This week’s episode of Cleaning Up comes to you from inside of the UK’s Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, where last week Bryony Worthington sat down w
Trump, Venezuela & The Future Of Clean Energy | Ep239: Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington
Is the link between oil and geopolitics starting to diminish? Has climate consensus fractured just as clean energy hits escape velocity? And are batteries, not barrels, becoming the true source of power and security?In the first episode of Season 17 of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack a turbulent start to 2026. From shock geopolitical moves in the Americas and riots in
Cleaning Up Redux: Canada's Controversial Queen of Green — Tzeporah Berman
This episode was originally broadcast in June 2023, watch the episode on YouTube here. Cleaning Up will return with new episodes January 7th, 2026. Tzeporah Berman has been leading environmental campaigns in her native Canada and beyond for over thirty years. Today, she is Chair of the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty, and International Program Director at Stand.earth, the environmental organi
Cleaning Up Redux: Hot Rocks in a Box — Anand Gopal
This episode was originally broadcast in June 2024.As the world transitions away from fossil fuels, one of the biggest challenges is decarbonizing industrial processes that require consistent, reliable sources of energy to produce high-temperatures. Typically these processes run on fossil gas, but now thermal batteries offer a solution by using electricity to store renewable energy in the form of
Stop Worrying About Clean Power, Start Electrifying Everything | Ep238: Lord Adair Turner
What will be the long-term impact of the US’s great leap backward on clean energy? How will the emergency of China as an electrotech giant reshape geopolitics? And what will be the defining trends and technologies of 2026?In this end-of-year episode of Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington is joined by Lord Adair Turner, Chair of the Energy Transitions Commission, for a wide-ranging, candid, an
Honey, I Shrunk the Oil And Gas Sector | Ep237: Lord John Browne
What happens when clean energy starts to outgrow fossil fuels at scale? Is it right to call China an electrostate? And how long will we be reliant on hydrocarbons?This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Lord Browne of Madingley — former CEO of BP and one of the earliest voices inside Big Oil to publicly call for emissions reductions from fossil fuels. Recorded in front of
Why Does The UK Pay So Much For Cheap-To-Produce Gas? | Ep236: Seb Kennedy
What happens when a nation’s energy security rests on volatile global gas markets? Why does the UK pay market prices for some of the world’s cheapest-to-produce gas? And is now the moment to rethink decades of “leave it to the market” dogma?This week on Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with Seb Kennedy, energy journalist and founder of Energy Flux, to unpack the turbulent geopoli
Inside Europe’s Largest AI Data Centre: A Green Giant Rises | Ep235: Robert Dunn
What does it take to build Europe’s largest and most sustainable data-centre campus, from an empty plot of land to a 1.2-gigawatt giant of AI? How do you future-proof a facility when chip technology is evolving at breakneck speed? And what happens when the site of former coal-fired power plant becomes a global hub for AI?In this special, on-location episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich visits
California vs Trump In The Battle For Clean Air | Ep234: Liane Randolph
What happens when the world’s most ambitious climate state runs head-on into a hostile federal government? Can California still lead the clean-energy transition while battling rising costs, wildfires and the Trump government’s sweeping tariffs? And what does a “pragmatic reset” on climate policy look like when the stakes have never been higher?This week on Cleaning Up Bryony Worthington sits down
The €65 Billion Plan to Modernise Germany’s Grids | Ep233: Tim Meyerjürgens
What does it take to future-proof Europe’s electricity grid? How do you finance €65 billion in infrastructure without driving up consumer electricity costs? And can the permitting process be sped up to become fast enough for the energy transition?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Tim Meyerjürgens, CEO of TenneT Germany, the country’s largest transmission system operator, t
Why There'll Never Be A Hydrogen Economy | Ep232: Erik Rakhou
Is green hydrogen a ‘miracle fuel’ or an expensive illusion? Can we decarbonize without it? And what happens when hydrogen hype meets hard economics?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich debates Erik Rakhou, author of Touching Hydrogen Future, in a no-holds-barred discussion moderated by Andrew Critchlow of S&P Global Commodity Insights.Together, they contest one of the most contentious topi
The Electrotech Revolution Will Not Be Fossilized | Ep231: Kingsmill Bond
What if the energy transition isn’t about sacrifice and belt-tightening, but abundance? Are electrified technologies ready to replace the polluting fossil fuel system we’re so reliant on? And what will it mean for western nations if they can’t keep up with China? In this special bonus episode of Cleaning Up, recorded live in Berlin, Michael Liebreich sits down with Kingsmill Bond, strategist at Em
COP30: Caught Between An Electrostate and A Petrostate | Ep230: Rachel Kyte
This week on Cleaning Up, we welcome back Rachel Kyte, the UK’s Special Representative for Climate Change, for a deep dive into the shifting landscape of global climate diplomacy ahead of COP30 in Belém, Brazil.Rachel brings decades of experience — from leading Sustainable Energy for All under Ban Ki-Moon to senior roles at the World Bank and IFC — to unpack how countries, investors, and instituti
The US Just Sank Shipping's Big Plan for Decarbonization, What Now? | Ep229: Tristan Smith
Global shipping contributes about 3% of global greenhouse gas emissions, equivalent to the total emissions of Japan or Germany. The sector, including its contribution to climate change, is governed by the International Maritime Organisation or the IMO, which is a UN agency based in London in the United Kingdom.Last week, the International Maritime Organisation gathered to vote on a proposal to red
How To Move Away From Fossil Fuels Faster — Bryony Grills Michael on The Pragmatic Climate Reset | Ep228
This summer, Michael Liebreich wrote two essays under the title of the Pragmatic Climate Reset. The first challenged the idea that the clean energy transition has failed. And the second challenged the clean energy and climate community to a reset, exploring eight areas which he thinks the transition has gone astray.In this special episode, Bryony Worthington sits down with Michael Liebreich, to un
The £60 Billion Plan To Rewire Britain | Ep227: John Pettigrew
What does it take to rewire a nation’s energy system? Can we make the grid cleaner, smarter, and more resilient — without driving up bills? And how will the explosion of AI data centres reshape the future of electricity demand?This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with John Pettigrew, outgoing CEO of National Grid, for a candid conversation marking the end of his 35-year caree
What India Gets Right About The Energy Transition | Ep226: Dr Arunabha Ghosh
What does it take for India to deliver electricity to hundreds of millions while simultaneously building a fast-growing clean energy system? Can it overcome its fossil dependence to secure its energy futures with renewables? And how will India’s development choices shape the global climate fight in the decades ahead?India, like China, is home to over a billion people, and is highly reliant on impo
Can We Save the Great Barrier Reef? | Ep225: Dr Katharina Fabricius
Why should we care about coral reefs? What happens when they collapse? And is there still hope for their survival?In this episode of Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with coral reef ecologist Dr. Katharina Fabricius, who has witnessed six mass bleaching events on the Great Barrier Reef over her three decades of research.From the “seven sins of climate change” threatening reefs — heat wave
Audioblog 16: The Pragmatic Climate Reset, Part II — A Provocation
The election of Donald Trump to a second term as President marked a turning point in the politics of climate action – not just in the US, but around the world.The airwaves are suddenly awash with commentators, claiming that the transition has failed, that it was always a fool’s errand, and that we must resign ourselves to a fossil-based future forever.The narratives of failure all revel in pointin
Less Doom, More Data: Debunking the Biggest Climate Myths | Ep223: Dr. Hannah Ritchie
Is the future of clean energy and climate solutions brighter than we think? In this episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes back Hannah Ritchie — Deputy Editor at Our World in Data, researcher at the Oxford Martin School, and author of her new book, Clearing the Air.In Clearing the Air, Hannah tackles 50 of the most common myths and misconceptions about climate solutions, from “Isn’t cl
Malcolm Turnbull: Clean Energy Culture Wars and The Race To Build More Storage | Ep 222
What happens when cheap solar flips the script on climate sceptics? Can pumped hydro really deliver the long-duration storage we need? And is “hope” a dangerous comforter in the race to net zero?In this season opener of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Malcolm Turnbull — former Prime Minister of Australia, lawyer, statesman, energy investor, and climate champion. From leading Australi
Cleaning Up Redux: A Magnificent Woman And Her Flying Machines - Bonny Simi
This episode was originally broadcast in February 2024Bryony returns with Bonny Simi, President of Operations at Joby Aviation, where she's working on bringing to market a new civilian electric VTOL (eVTOL) aircraft. Prior to joining the team at Joby, Bonny held several operational and strategic roles at JetBlue Most notably, she founded and led JetBlue Technology Ventures, investing in improving
Cleaning Up Redux: From Free Solo to Free Solar — Alex Honnold
This episode was originally broadcast in April 2022Alex Honnold is one of the world’s best rock climbers, famous for his free solo ascents of big walls, including his 2017 first free solo of El Capitan in Yosemite.Alex began studies in engineering at the University of California-Berkeley but dropped out to pursue his passion for climbing, living out of his van. He first attracted attention within
The Inevitable End of Fossil Fuels | Ep221: Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington
What if the energy transition isn't a race, but a steady march toward the end of fossil fuel usage? Do we need to move more like the tortoise, and less like the hare? And in a world of competing narratives, who gets to define "pragmatism"?In this season finale of Cleaning Up, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack these questions as they review Season 15's most compelling conversati
Audioblog 15: The Pragmatic Climate Reset Part 1 — The Energy Transition Is Not Dead
In February, veteran fossil industry advisor Dan Yergin and two co-authors published a piece called The Troubled Transition. In it they dismiss the idea that there is or can ever be an energy transition, anchored on the fact that fossil fuels contributed 85% to so-called primary energy in 1990 and still contribute 80% today. Needless to say, their argument has been widely amplified by the oil and
The Inflation Induction Act: How the US Lost The Race for Clean Energy | Ep 219: Ethan Zindler
Is the US about to enter a new era of energy inflation? Can technological progress outpace political regression? Are we witnessing the permanent end of America's climate ambitions?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Ethan Zindler, former climate counselor to Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, now head of countries and policy at BloombergNEF, to dissect the dramatic shifts in U
North Sea Oil & Gas Is Dying, What Comes Next? | Ep218: Tessa Khan
If the UK can’t ditch fossil fuels, who can? What impact would more drilling in the North Sea have for UK energy prices? What does the end of the net zero consensus mean for UK energy policy?This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with Tessa Khan, founder of Uplift, a charity challenging the oil and gas industry's hold on UK energy policy. A lawyer turned campaigner, Khan offe
How Fungi Shape Our World, From Carbon Sinks to Zombie TV: | Ep217: Merlin Sheldrake
What if the key to solving our climate crisis lies beneath our feet? Could tiny fungal networks be the unsung heroes of carbon sequestration? And how might reimagining our relationship with fungi transform our understanding of life on Earth? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Merlin Sheldrake, author of the bestselling "Entangled Life," to explore the extraordinary world o
The Best Markets for Wind and Solar Are Not Where You Think | Ep216: Daniel Calderon
In a world where 17% of all electricity is generated from wind and solar and where 93% of all new capacity added to the grid is from renewables, it can be easy to forget that countries got their first wind and solar resources within just the last few years. And in fact, some countries are still waiting for their first. Today on Cleaning Up, we’re joined by Daniel Calderon, Founder and Managing Par
NVIDIA Rising: Will The AI Boom Bust The Planet? | Ep215: Josh Parker
In 1849, when the Gold Rush hit California, the people who were certain to make money were not the miners, but the sellers of picks and shovels. Indeed, America's first millionaire, Samuel Brannan, made his fortune by adding huge margins to everyday items that suddenly become high in demand. Today's sellers of picks and shovels are those providing the hardware and infrastructure to the software an
Is There A Future Without Oil & Gas? Ep214: Ben van Beurden
Oil and gas companies lie at the heart of the energy transition. To some, they are heroes, continuing to power human progress despite all the odds. To some, they are villains, responsible for the climate change that is devastating our planet. This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich interviews Ben van Beurden, former CEO of Shell from 2014 to 2023. The conversation explores the complexities of
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