Disorder
Disorder is a podcast that offers forward-thinking solutions to the biggest challenges of the day, from political turmoil and geopolitical threats to technological disruption. Hosted by Jason Pack, along with co-hosts Jane Kinnimont and Mark Lobel, the show features world-leading experts, senior diplomats, and cultural icons. Each week, they explore why centrists are losing ground to populist strongmen, how to save democracies, and how to address threats from Iran, Russia, and other disorderers. The podcast aims to provide intelligent analysis and solutions for navigating a world without American leadership.
Episodes
Ep 202. The spy who duped me - Charles Cumming reveals all
Welcome to ‘Out of Order’ with Mark Lobel. A new series, in partnership with Disorder.
Remarkable people, unguarded. Each month, Emmy nominated journalist Mark Lobel meets some of the world’s most interesting people to understand the moments that made them who they are; and where they see hope in our mad mad mad mad world when so much feels out of order.
In his most revealing interview yet,
Ep 201. Rerun: Why Backgammon Can Help us Order the Disorder
To celebrate Jason's 2nd place finish at the World Backgammon Championships, we're rerunning a classic episode of Disorder; centred around the game itself and the lessons it provides for the Mega Ordering community.
If you didn’t hear this when it came out in July, 2025, I think you’ll enjoy checking it out now.
We’ve heard about Putin bluffing. Abraham Lincoln was an accomplished poker player
Ep 200. Is more devolution in Britain the answer or a spreader of Disorder?
Jason and Jane are back from their holidays – Jason celebrating making the Finals of the World Championships of Backgammon and winning the Silver Medal, and Jane reflecting on her time in Morocco. But soon as they discuss the state of the world, Disorder enters as they disagree agreeably about devolution in the UK. Plus: what can or is being done with the climate crisis, and what does Abdul El-Say
Ep 199. Rerun: NATO: A Model for Ordering the Disorder?
For summer recess, we return to our favourite episodes of all time where we explain the very essence of our conception of the Enduring Disorder as a period where international institutions tend not to work and where coordinating the allies to stay on the same page about things like defence, climate change, and taxation is a tremendous challenge. The rare exception is NATO, it mostly works even if
Ep 198. Tomorrow's Disorder — Florence Gaub on Our Flawed Relationship with the Future
This week on Disorder latest, Jason is joined by Dr Florence Gaub, futurist, military strategist, and Director of the Research Division at the NATO Defense College. Florence has spent her career thinking professionally about something most of us do rather badly: systematically plan for the future.
Her book, The Future: A User’s Guide, was a best se
Ep 197. Re-Run: The Rise of the Neo-Populists
For summer recess, we return to our favourite episodes of all time where we explain the very essence of our conception of the Enduring Disorder as a period in which Disordering Neo-populists have come to power and have made the world more disorderly so they can stay in power. If you didn’t hear this when it came out on Sept 19, 2023--when we launched--I think you’ll enjoy checking it out now.
O
Ep 196. Rule of Lies—the origin story of Putin’s Russia with Jamison Firestone
This week, Jason is joined by a real life Mega-Orderer--Jamison Firestone, acclaimed lawyer, author, and activist. He witnessed firsthand Russia's descent from the promise of the Yeltsin years into the corruption and authoritarianism of Vladimir Putin's regime.Firestone was also the employer and close colleague of Sergei Magnitsky, whose death after exposing a massive tax fraud inspired the Magnit
Ep 195. Trump, Iran, and the Epstein Files
In this episode of Disorder latest, Jason updates on the for-ever war in Iran and the Straight of Hormuz and how the disorder we are experiencing over there is conceptually connected to the bigger concepts of the Disorder pod: the Global Enduring Disorder and the rise of the Neopopulists. He does this via a conversation on the Disinformation Detox with Nolan Higdon, which we ai
Ep 194. Farage vs Count Binface, reflections on the NATO Summit and America
Fresh from her trip to Ankara for the NATO Summit, Jane rejoins Jason to discuss what she learned about NATO, the mood among the allies, and why the Europeans are moving further away from Trump. Plus: Farage’s resignation and by-election, how that is connected to the Marine Le Pen court ruling in France, and then to Order the Disorder: Jason argues that we should look no further than the America’s
Ep 193. America’s 250th and a Reformed drug smuggler on how to tackle the narcotics industry and Epstein
We start the episode with Jason’s reflections on the July 4th holiday and America’s Big Birthday. For more on this check out the first YouTube below in the Links. He believes that our Founding Fathers were Mega Orderers and men of tremendous principle who trusted experts. Therefore, to celebrate the holiday, he wanted to have someone on the pod who has lived his life courageously, respectfully, an
Ep 192. Who is funding the Houthis?
In this episode of Disorder, Jane Kinninmont is joined by Peter Salisbury, Adjunct Assistant Professor at Columbia University, and Senior Fellow at the Century Foundation, who has spent years tracking the illicit supply chains fuelling the war in Yemen. His upcoming report, launching at King's College London, is essential reading for anyone trying to understand how the Houthis went from a little-k
Ep 191. Why Can’t Western governments get anything done? What do we do about trillionaires? Is the US missing out on the World Cup dividend?
This week it’s time for listener questions! And pls note that members of the Mega Orderer’s club get their questions answered first. Jane and Jason discuss: why Russia is pretending to be happy with Starmer resigning, the potential role of Turkey, Saudi, Pakistan and Egypt in Ordering the Strait of Hormuz, Elon Musk becoming the world’s first trillionaire, whether Iran and America will ever agree
Ep 190. An Orderly British transition is underway and the upcoming NATO summit in Ankara
Don’t you just love when decency interjects and sometimes people do the right thing, the orderly thing, the sane thing? Well voters of Makerfield have chosen order and unity over disorder and division, and now Starmer has done the right thing. The Orderly Transition to Burnham is on its way and it is an example of a prime opportunity for the institutions of Britain to showcase themselves to the do
Ep 189. The Armenian election and the Disorderly Caucasus
In this episode of Disorder Latest, Jason is joined by Thomas de Waal, journalist, author, and Senior Fellow at Carnegie Europe who has spent decades studying the politics, conflicts, and societies of the Caucasus and wider Eurasian region. His book ‘The Caucasus: An Introduction’, is a must read for anyone looking to understand the region—its ethnic diversity, its ties to Russia, its cults of per
Ep 188. Disorder LIVE @ UNA-UK: The Disunited Kingdom, the disordered dynamics of U.S.-Iran talks, and how Hormuz affects Nigerian politics
For a special live edition of Disorder, we come to you live from the United Nations Association – UK, where Jason, Jane and Mark were joined by a special guest-- Alexis Akwagyiram, Managing Editor for Africa at Semafor.
Mark and Jason discussed the latest disorder in the UK and if Andy Burnham might be able to bring Order to Britain? But will he even be able to order its bond markets? Jane and
Ep 187. Iran War restarted? And Is Latin America moving to the right?
Over the weekend Iran launched waves of missiles at Israel, while Israel retaliated against military targets and a petrochemical complex in Iran, as an uneasy two-month truce appeared to break down.
Trump had earlier appeared keen to avoid an escalation, telling Bibi not to respond to the first barrage of Iranian missiles. Under the surface, Israel wants to complete the job in Lebanon, but Trump
Ep 186. How to oust Netanyahu, and give the UAE tough love
It is our favourite time of the month, listeners questions!
This week Jason and Jane take listener questions around topics including: Will Netanyahu be ousted in this year’s elections? Have the Israeli anti-Bibi bloc learned the lessons of Hungary before the next parliamentary elections? Can Reform UK be trusted to do what they say they will? Is a constantly changing leader now the norm in UK p
Ep 185. Is Ukraine Winning? And how has the Iran war reshaped the Middle East? With David Tafuri
The crises across our disordered world are more interconnected than ever. As states pursue their own self-interest, genuine collective action for mutual shared benefit seems further away than ever before. How can we ever hope to Order this Disorder?
To try, Jason is joined this week by his old friend David Tafuri. David previously served as the US Department of State’s Rule of Law Coordinator fo
Ep 184. How Ryan Cornelius Was Trapped in Dubai Jail With Chris Pagett
Today marks the 18th anniversary of the arrest of Ryan Cornelius, a British businessman stuck in jail on dubious charges over a real estate development project gone awry. And yet… the UK Government is doing nothing substantive to get his release, too scared to pressure a close ally. Does this episode showcase a key aspect of the Enduring Disorder: medium power democracies are too scared to pressur
Ep 183. Trump Visits China, the world order is broken - With Leslie Vinjamuri
This week on Disorder, in a slight break from the Mayhem in the UK over the possible Leadership challenge to Starmer, Jane catches up with the President and CEO of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and host of the Deep Dish podcast, Leslie Vinjamuri. Leslie and Jane used to work together at Chatham House. They start by discussing Leslie’s final project for Chatham House where she worked with a
Ep 182. Reform win big in England: are they Disorderers or Orderers? with Alan Mendoza
In the May 7, 2026 UK elections, Reform won biggly. They did so well that they even stole the show from the ascendent Celtic nationalists in the periphery. Gaining thousands of councillors in England, becoming the second largest party in Wales and the joint second biggest in Scotland. Meanwhile, in Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland the biggest parties (Plaid Cymru, SNP, and Sinn Fein) are all
Ep 181. Corrupted: The entrapment of Former Prince Andrew, with Andrew Lownie
Something smells royally fishy. The stench has been detected wafting from Sandringham all the way to Balmoral. The scandals around Lord Mandelson and former Prince Andrew have showcased that the rich and powerful have been operating beyond the law and that royal sinecures have been used to obscure the provenance of ill-gotten gains.
Consider: In America, you make your money. But in Britain, you
Ep 180. Is the Iran War on or off? Is Hormuz open or closed? Is Orban’s fall the end of neo-populism?
This week’s episode was recorded before the Trump Assassination attempt at the White House Correspondents dinner, but Jason inserted a late breaking addition to reference it at the start. In the regularly scheduled programming, Jane and Jason take a range of listener questions on topics like: Is the Iran War on or off? Does the downfall of Victor Orban mean a turn away from neo-populism and author
Ep 179. What is Zionism and is it still relevant today? Israel’s Independence Day with Phil Rosenberg
Over the last week, a spate of Jewish communal targets have been attacked in North London. According to its founder Theodore Herzl, Zionism was supposed to normalize the position of Jews in the world. Has Zionism failed or is a new consensus form of Zionism still the answer to these outbursts of Disorderly Antisemitism?
In 2026, April 21 is Israel’s Independence Day. These are tough times for t
Ep 178. Elemental: The Geopolitics of Climate Change with Arthur Snell
The Chinese are cleaning our clock when it comes to lithium batteries and EVs, while the Russians still dominate at nuclear energy? Why? Why can’t the West play the geopolitics of climate change better? Why can’t Western countries work together to prepare for, mitigate, and profit from the upcoming cataclysm? Why are we sleepwalking off the cliff?
To find out, we return to friend of the show a
Ep 177. Iran War: Could Europe play Orderers? Or will China fill the void?
As the Iran conflict enters its sixth week and Trump’s ultimatum is upon us, what is Trump’s real plan here? Is it merely to Disorder, or is he genuinely seeking to negotiate his way out of this conflict?
To discuss the latest, including the role of Europe and whether the Strait of Hormuz can be theoretically and practically opened by military force, Jason is joined by Michael Stephens, senior fe
Ep 176. What’s next in Iran? Is NATO Doomed? And how do we tackle global inequality?
This week, Mark Lobel and Jane Kinninmont take listener questions on topics including: the future of Iran and the Iranian people, the decline of Britain’s naval power, whether NATO can survive Trump’s ongoing attacked, what role the Enduring Disorder played in causing Brexit, and how to solve global inequality.
To join our Mega Orderers Club for ad free listening, early episode releases and exc
Ep 175. How should we use peacekeepers in a world of conflict?
The world is steeped in conflict. From Ukraine to the Middle East to Sudan, so what role do UN Peacekeepers play in a world with little peace? And what role can they play
To discuss, Jane Kinninmont is joined by Jean-Pierre Lacroix, the Under-Secretary-General for Peace Operations. They discuss the current role of UN peacekeepers, what they can and cannot do, and how they can find a role in a w
Ep 174. Could Trump’s Iran War tank the global economy?
The Iran war rages on, oil prices continues to surge, and inflation spikes. When will we be in a global recession? Do we see stagflation coming back? Can military action open and secure the Strait of Hormuz? Or is that also a Chimera? Are the Disorderers doing this all on purpose do they benefit from all this Disorder?
This week, Jason Pack and Mark Lobel discuss the big picture economic proble
Ep 173. What is Strategy? And how do we stop democracies backsliding into autocracy?
Well, the quagmire has set in. The Iran war is in its second week and Oil Prices are above $100 a barrel and even though it was clear from the first shots being fired it is now manifest that Trump has no strategy. And his ability to act with impunity shows that constraining leaders to act with strategy rather than just opportunism is a key aspect of democracy and accountability.
We are trying t
Ep 172. Looking beyond the headlines of the Iran War; do the arrests of Mandelson and Andrew show the UK justice system works?
It is a crazy week for the Middle East and the World. For those wanting the Iran War content mentioned at the episode start where Jason appeared on three different podcasts addressing various aspects of the conflict (its congressional illegality; the parallels with the No Fly Zone over Libya; and the Epstein distraction aspects) please consult those links in the shownotes, we think those podcasts
Ep 171. The Wars of Epic Epstein Distraction: RIP Dictator Khamanei
Trump is clearly bored of peace. So bored. Shortly before the United States and Israel were poised to launch an attack on Iran later in the week, Israeli and American intelligence spotted, on Saturday morning local time, that the entire Iranian leadership including the Supreme Leader Ali Khamanei (and likely his son Mojtaba) as well as key IRGC commanders were going to meet to discuss the ongoing
Ep 170. Why the Mainstream media is partially to blame for Epstein coverup - Jason Pack on KeenOn
For this bonus episode, we invite the orderers to hear a lightly-edited recording of Jason Pack appearing on our sister pod, KeenOn America, where Andrew and Jason discuss Jason’s belief that there was a genuine cover-up by Anglo-American media and the US and UK governments of the Jeffrey Epstein case—not orchestrated by the CIA, but by prosecutors who didn’t want to go after powerful people, jour
Ep 169. Could Europe set up the democratic board of peace?
Here at Disorder, we love solutions, so much so that we’re going to be putting even more solutions into our episodes, by trying to zoom out from developments in the news to potential solutions. This week we start our treatment of news items and then zooming out to solutions with the arrest of former Prince Andrew, the latest from the Epstein files, and the inaugural meeting of Trump’s Board of Pea
Ep 168. How can Epstein’s victims get closure? With civil rights attorney Lisa Bloom
This is the second in our two-part series shining a light on Epstein survivors and their real-life stories. In this episode, Mark Lobel is joined by civil rights attorney Lisa Bloom, who represents many of Epstein’s victims. Bloom reveals how she has recently been approached by new potential clients in the wake of the recent release of yet more documents from the Epstein Files. She calls Epstein “
Ep 167. Epstein survivor Rina Oh on getting justice
Hey Elon are you listening? And King Charles and former Prince Andrew, what about you? We want actions, not words. Order isn’t gonna magically appear, powerful people need to help bring it about. This episode has tips for how the most powerful could use their wealth and power to try to Order the Disorder.
As the implications of the Epstein scandal grows ever larger and the whole affair present
Ep 166. Epstein, the Disorderer of 2026; and McSweeney has gone
As this show predicted at the end of 2025, Jeffrey Epstein has become the Disorderer-in-Chief of 2026 – with Keir Starmer’s credibility and ability to govern the latest victims of the document release. So how could there possibly be any Order emerging from this Disorder? It is only possible if McSweeney is ejected from Number 10. That is the only answer and the longer Starmer keeps him on, the wea
Ep 165. Why Another World is Possible with Sir Geoff Mulgan
Hear real life stories about meeting the Pope, briefing the Prime Minister, and creating legislation to safeguard future generations!
As we settle in to 2026, it feels like we are stuck in a permanent state of Disorder: Trump’s power grabs around the world, the timidity of Starmerism, and the lack of future-focused collective solutions to the world’s most pressing issues like AI regulation and
Ep 164. The UN’s Last Chance to Save the World? With Lord Robertson & Antonio Patriota
It’s telling to hear NATO’s future is not “guaranteed” according to a former NATO boss. After a jaw-dropping US threat to take Greenland shocked the world. President Trump’s first year back in power is also overshadowing the United Nations' 80th milestone. Prompting calls to retool the world’s top diplomat.
In this episode of Disorder, hosted by Mark Lobel, the former head of NATO tells Disord
Ep 163. Greenland, Iran, International Law, and where has decency gone? RIP Greg Merriman—Real Life Mega-Orderer
This episode is dedicated to Disorder’s only ‘Founding Sponsor’, Greg Merriman, who passed away from Pancreatic Cancer last week. He was a software entrepreneur, a wine lover, and an American-Anglophile. To Jason’s mind he was a classic example of that old time Midwestern decency, which the world is sorely lacking these days. He was a true Mega Orderer and will be sorely missed.
This week, Jane
Ep 162. Venezuelization and What Disorder Will 2026 Bring? Disorder Live @ RUSI
To kick off the year, Disorder held our final live podcast recording at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), as part of our one-year partnership with the think tank. Hear Jason Pack in discussion with Disorder co-host Jane Kinninmont, RUSI Associate Fellow Arthur Snell, and Jonathan Eyal, Associate Director at RUSI. They discussed the rather disordering implications of Trump’s actions in Ve
Ep 161. What does warfare look like in smartphone age? Matthew Ford
Smartphones have revolutionised warfare, and we are still learning exactly the implications of this. The extent of our full spectrum dependence on Wi-Fi and the internet is profound. Military organisations routinely rely on civilian infrastructure to operate digitally. Now, with AI accelerating the pace of change in tactics, strategy, and targets even further, what does that mean for war? And how
Ep 160. What Disorder can we expect in 2026? With KeenOn
For this special partnership episode with Andrew Keen from KeenOn, Jason and Andrew discuss what Disorder we can expect in 2026. Jason crowns Mark Carney as 2025’s Mega Orderer-in-Chief and fears that even from the grave Epstein will be 2026’s Disorderer-in-Chief. The show ends with our looking ahead to the New Year with the Hebrew song, ‘Ba Shana HaBa’ah’ song by Yoav Oved. You can check out more
Ep 159. Wishing Our Listeners A Mega Ordering Christmas!
In this festive edition of Disorder, our hosts Jason Pack, Jane Kinninmont and Mark Lobel reflect on a Disorderly 2025, and preview what could be an even more Disorderly 2026. They gather around the Yuletide fire and shoot the breeze, then discuss personal Christmas traditions, the biggest moments of Disorder throughout the year, while also pointing to some moments of hope that emerged.
As they
Ep 158. Rising Islamic militancy in Bangladesh?
Are we witnessing rising Islamic militancy in Bangladesh? Or could it become a model for other developing countries?
A nationwide celebration is underway. It’s Victory Day for Bangladesh’s 176 million people. Fifty-four years ago today -- December 16th, 1971 -- the former state of East Pakistan became the modern, independent nation of Bangladesh.
But few people are pleased with the trajecto
Ep 157. Dalia Dassa Kaye: Will Iran and the US always be enemies?
Will the US and Iran always be at odds? What is the history of their feud? Weren’t the countries allies under the Shah? And today, what’s the chance that negotiations will resume after the 12 Day War earlier this year? And why has the Iran file always been one of the most toxic and divisive issues in Washington foreign policy circles?
To find out the answers to these questions and more, Jane -
Ep 156. Philip Coggan--The Economic Consequences of Mr Trump; And will the UK restore budgetary order?
With the long-awaited UK budget finally revealed (in a leaked form a few hours early), will this finally restore a semblance of financial Order to the UK? And with Trump’s haphazard tariffs ongoing and constantly mutating, what does it all mean for the global economic order?
To find out, Jason is joined by Philip Coggan, award winning journalist and author of The Economic Consequences of Mr Tru
Ep 155. Can Canada become the world’s mega orderers? With Marci Surkes
What aboot Canada? Is Carney still popular? Has he pulled a Starmer of coming in with big fanfare and then flopping? Fortunately not! And with Mark Carney recently narrowly passing a budget, can Canada now play the role of the world’s mega orderers? And with the Canada-U.S. relationship on the rocks and trade talks stalled, what does that mean for Canada’s position in the world?
To find out, Jason
Ep 154. Is it in Israel’s interest to recognize Palestinian Statehood? A conversation with former Israeli Ambassador Ilan Baruch
In this bonus episode, Jane and Jason are joined by former Israeli Ambassador to South Africa, Ilan Baruch, to present a unique perspective on a possible route to peace between Israel and Palestine. Amb. Baruch is a part of the ‘Policy Working Group’, which advocates for ‘leveling the playing field’ between Israelis and Palestinians.
We discuss the need for ‘equality’ among parties in negotiat
Ep 153. Is wealth inequality the greatest global danger? U-turns on a U-Turn: Reeve’s Budget, and why is Trump suing the BBC?
The US president has said he plans to sue the BBC, even after getting an apology for a misleading Panorama edit of his 6 January speech. But how could he do that national broadcaster of America’s greatest ally? And will the BBC cave?
To find out, Jason is joined again by returning cohost, Mark Lobel. They discuss the BBC’s next moves and whether Trump’s lawsuit actually has any merit. Plus: the
Ep 152. How do we still get people to believe in Democracy?
For a special crossover episode with the Democracy Works podcast, Jenna Spinelle talks with Jason. They discuss the state of democracy around the world and why making America's government more like a European country might not be the solution to our current polarization that some democracy reformers hope it will be. We also contrast the current state of play in the US and UK and speculate as to wh
Ep151. Jason loses his city: the disordering pitfalls of Zohran Mamdani’s victory in NYC
Central Park West Apartments for all! Freeze the Rent! Free Palestine! Jason goes on a screed that is sure to bemuse, offend, and enlighten. He showcases the myriad ways in which Mamdani’s leftwing populism is not so dissimilar to Trump’s disordering offerings.
In the wake of Zohran Mamdani’s victory in the New York Mayoral Election, Democrats face a choice. How do they talk about the issues he
Ep 150. Why can’t the US justice system hold the powerful to account?
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
In institutional design, the US justice system is more independent than its European counterparts. Even though the US President selects his Attorney General, a corrupt President can be dealt with not only via impeachment
Ep 149. Is an alliance with Israel geostrategically useful to the US? Plus sanctions on Russia and the UN’s Role
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content (like this week’s special bonus about the UN’s and Jason’s Birthday) and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
In this listener questions episode, Jason and Jane discuss a range of issues from Israel-Gaza, to football hooliganism, to Kaliningrad (the Russian exc
Ep 148. Is there a path to lasting peace in Palestine and Israel?
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
As Trump parades across the Middle East collecting adulation for his ‘eternal peace’ deal, Jane and Jason break down the realities and explain that what was achieved was merely a hostage release, prisoner swap, and cease
Ep 147. From Gaza ceasefire and Hostage release and to Post-War State Building? With Sam Bahour (Commemorating October 7th Part 2)
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
To discuss from a Palestinian perspective the fallout of October 7th, two years of the Gaza War, and the suffering of the Palestinians from occupation, displacement, cantonization, and bombardments, Jason is joined by Sa
Ep 146. Commemorating October 7th Part 1: Phil Rosenberg, President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10
This timely episode was recorded before the horrors of the Manchester Yom Kippur Synagogue terrorist attack of October 2nd and the potential optimism of the Trump deal to end the Gaza War which is curre
Ep 145. How has Trump changed the UN?
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10
When Trump stormed into UNGA last week, complained about escalators and tele prompters, and swung back out… the UN was faced with some questions. How do we navigate a world through Trump’s America? And
Ep 144. Is Free Speech Dead in America (plus announcing Mega Orderers Club)?
We here at Disorder are thrilled to announce a subscription Club with lots of perks for our fans. Given these dire times and our inability to break even we really need your support. To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10
Even a small amount from you on th
Ep 143. Can The Politics Guys Help us Order the Disorder?
For a special bonus episode, we give you Jason’s conversation with Michael Baranowski, of The Politics Guys podcast. They discuss: Jason’s concept of global enduring disorder, the implications of this disorder for global politics, the role of the US, and the need for new governance structures to address transnational challenges. Plus: the rise of neopopulism across the globe, its implications for
Ep 142. Why are stock markets not crashing? With the FT’s Katie Martin
Investors are frogs in a Trumpian pot. As he turns the water up will they jump or boil?
Trump has chaotically imposed tariffs on the global economy-- replete with arbitrary numbers, 90-day pauses, and then different outcomes for similar countries. Many predicted this type of chaotic policymaking would tank the US stock markets, make the bond markets panic, and trigger a worldwide recession. Jas
Ep 141. Trump Visits UK, Starmer on verge of Recognising Palestinian Statehood
As Trump touches down in the UK, Elon Musk provokes a riot in Westminister and Kier Starmer’s government is set to recognise Palestinian Statehood.
Last week, Israel attacked Hamas leaders in Qatar. Did they hit them? Did they miss? Did Mossad advise against the IDF’s plan? There’s a lot of Disorder out there.
To discuss these issues as well as: his recent family vacation road trip across Fr
Ep 140. Could Britain Lead on Migration, Rule of Law, and Public Health?
Britain has a new Foreign Secretary, Yvette Cooper, and this week’s episode dives into the UK’s foreign policy and how it could in theory transcend some of the country’s current political divides. To dig into this topic, Jane and Jason are joined by Michael Stephens, senior fellow at Global Nation and an associate fellow at RUSI. Mike’s new report, ‘Rules Britannia’ is being launched today, and is
Ep 139. Bangladesh and The Great Game for South Asia
With the West’s ability to promote democratic transitions essentially dead, a struggle for influence is unfolding inside Bangladesh. Its traditional alliance with India is being replaced by a scramble for economic influence among China, Pakistan, the US, and Russia – none of whom are genuinely committed to promoting free elections inside the country. If you add in the fallout from the recent India
Ep 138. Are we prepared for global disasters?
In early August, one of the most powerful earthquakes ever recorded struck a sparsely populated region in Russia’s far east. It triggered a tsunami that started crossing the ocean, heading towards the coastlines of Japan, Hawaii, and the US west coast. Thankfully… due to successful and orderly global co-ordination, millions were evacuated and countless lives were saved.
This week, Jane and Jaso
Ep 137. To Recognise a Palestinian State
It is our favourite time of the month. Jane and Jason take on the mega orderering listeners’ questions – focussing mostly on the Middle East, the Trump-Putin summit, and any rays of ordering hope that might be on the horizon. They look at the unlikely role of UN peacekeeping forces in the West Bank, whether the UK, Australia, and France recognising Palestinian Statehood would help anything, and wa
Ep 136. Trump's High Summer of Disorder: Can Big Global Government actually regulate AI?
Like it or not, Trump and his surreal version of a libertarian patrimonial America is reshaping the world. At least in what the FT’s Janan Ganesh dubs “the high summer of Donald Trump”. I teamed up with Andrew Keen of the ‘Keen On America’ Podcast to discuss Big Tech and the need for Big Government to regulate it. Andrew thinks Government and international treaties can’t be the answer. I disagree
Ep 135. Are Drones replacing Air Forces; and is NATO ready for it?
As Ukraine and Russia master new forms of drone warfare, are NATO and Europe being left behind? Is the West willfully clinging to older 20th century ways of equipping and preparing for war?
In this episode, Arthur Snell is joined by Matthew Savill, the Director of Military Sciences at RUSI. They focus on developments and trends in contemporary conflict and investigate new trends in the use of f
Ep 134. Why Spying is vital in our age of Disorder
For as long as there’s been wars and diplomacy, there have been spies. Some call it the world’s second oldest profession. But from their peak during the Cold War until now have the West’s spying capabilities declined? And how is spying and subterfuge being used in the Ukraine War?
As part of our partnership with the New Books Network, Jason is joined this week by former MI-6 agent, Charles Beau
Ep 133. Could Epstein Bring Down Trump?
It’s that time of the month (ha), as we take listener questions!
Jason and Jane discuss why the Epstein scandal WILL genuinely hurt Trump with his conspiracy loving base, the complexities of the UK’s independent nuclear deterrent, the multilateralism of any new Iran nuclear deal, the implications of blowback from Trump's conspiratorial scaremongering, and if the Russians have the ability to es
Ep 132. Why Backgammon Can Help us Order the Disorder
We’ve heard about Putin bluffing. Abraham Lincoln was an accomplished poker player and Churchill dabbled at chess. But to our mind it is Backgammon that best reflects both politics and life decisions. It’s a game of skill, luck, reversals and socializing. So could world leaders use Backgammon to help them develop their empathy, strategic thinking, resilience, and make better decisions?
In this
Ep 131. Have You Got What It Takes to Become British?
Each time someone wants to become a British Citizen, they have to pass the ‘Life In The UK’ Test. The aspiring Britisher (such as Jason) might hope that this test would be comprised of a series of questions that would highlight Britain’s role as a global orderer, help prospective citizens understand the intricacies of British queuing culture and provide insights into how to pay council tax, or get
Ep 130. Is International Diplomacy Dead? With Stephanie Williams
The UN is demonstrably powerless in Gaza; unable to facilitate elections in Libya; and blocked by Russia from doing anything meaningful on major issues, like Ukraine, Climate Change, Tarriffs, or the Arctic. Is International Diplomacy Dead? Where is the UN in pushing back against Trump? Is there any way that countries can finally put their differences aside on major divisive issues -- like Ukraine
Ep 129. What Does British Foreign Policy Actually Mean?
In his roll as UK Foreign Secretary, David Lammy has often talked of his concept of progressive realism, but what does that mean? And how has that impacted British foreign policy over the past 12 months?
In this episode of Disorder, Alex Hall Hall and Arthur Snell delve into the complexities of British diplomacy over the past year – offering a grade point for each area of British foreign policy
Ep 128. The Decline of American Leadership
In Alex’s final episode as an official cohost, she and Jason reflect on just how disordered the world has become since the pod started in 2023. They lament the loss of sane American global leadership during that time, the challenges faced by centrist politicians, and unpack the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. They express the need for moral courage and moral clarity in politics. As they Order the Dis
Ep 127. How To Navigate Our Disordered World
In Alex’s penultimate episode as an official Disorder cohost, she and Jason discuss her decision to step back from co-hosting due to the overwhelming chaos in the world and the emotional toll it takes. Plus: they unpack the struggle to maintain empathy in a disordered world, the rising fear of deportation, cancellation, political violence, censorship, enemies lists, and their implications for demo
Ep 126. 12 Day War Restarts? Can Trump Impose Peace on Iran and Israel?
As Lenin apparently never said, ‘There Are Decades Where Nothing Happens and Weeks Where Decades Happen’. We are clearly living through the latter. Arthur and Jason attempt to untangle the latest: from the Iranian attack on the US airbase in Qatar to Trump’s declaration of forever peace to end what he is cleverly calling the 12 Day War.
Arthur and Jason rally in violent unity for Mega Ordering
Ep 125. As wars rage, can Trump be seen as a peacemaker?
Trump promised to end the wars in Ukraine and Gaza, yet here we are – months later – and seemingly no real progress has been made towards peace in either regions. In the meantime, Trump and co were also seeking deals across the Middle East, including a new nuclear deal with Iran. How did that go? It ended in full scale War! Is the Art of the Deal dead? Is Trump a fool? Or is he more of a master ne
Ep 124. How Does the Iran Israel War End? My Kingdom for a Bunker-Buster
Over the weekend, waves of missiles were launched back and forth by Iran and Israel – killing civilians, damaging oil refineries, and causing tremendous humanitarian disaster. Iran willy nilly lobbed bombs at population centres while the Israelis targeted key bits of infrastructure. In either case, the international community stood by – seemingly unable to stop the Disorder. So what can be done?
Ep 123. Israel’s attack on Iran - The Wars of Disorder Commence
Overnight, Israel attacked several of Iran’s nuclear sites and killed the Islamic Republic’s top military leaders, as well as assassinating the Supreme Leader’s key advisor on nuclear issues, Ali Shamkhani. This comes two days before the US and Iran were supposed to resume direct talks on finding a diplomatic agreement to curb Iran’s nuclear programme, which Shamkhani had publicly supported. Jane
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