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New Law Order

TalksOnLaw | Joel Cohen & John Morley 11 Episodes May 26, 2026

New Law Order is a podcast about the business of Big Law and the technologies remaking it. Hosts Joel Cohen and Professor John Morley interview lawyers, founders, academics, and judges who are quietly transforming the legal industry. Episodes cover candid conversations about the world's most prestigious law firms, the rise of AI and legal tech, the economics of modern partnerships, litigation finance, and the future of associate work. The show explores structural shifts in the legal sector that are often left unspoken.

Episodes

CJ Mahoney (Meta): Inside Counsel at Scale May 26, 2026 1:12:41 In this episode of New Law Order, Joel Cohen and Yale Law Professor John Morley speak with CJ Mahoney, Chief Legal Officer of Meta, about one of the hardest legal questions facing modern technology companies: when a product becomes deeply woven into daily life, how should the law think about harm, responsibility, and regulation? Drawing on a career that has taken him from Williams & Connolly t

Richard Sander (UCLA Law): A Mismatch Critique of Affirmative Action May 5, 2026 1:06:41 Richard Sander, UCLA law professor and economist, has spent decades advancing one of the most controversial arguments in legal education: that large racial preferences in law school admissions may frequently harm the students they are intended to help. In this episode of New Law Order, Joel Cohen and Yale Law Professor John Morley speak with Sander about affirmative action, the Supreme Court’s dec

Mike Gerstenzang (Cleary Gottlieb): AI from the Inside Apr 7, 2026 0:00:01 Michael A. Gerstenzang, the longtime managing partner and now senior partner of Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton, explains how he positioned one of the world's most established law firms to lead in AI adoption — not by outsourcing innovation, but by building it from the inside. The conversation traces a series of structural bets that began before generative AI entered the mainstream, starting

Judge Paul Grimm: Deep Fakes in the Courtroom Mar 26, 2026 1:01:11 This week, we’re sharing a timely episode from a related TalksOnLaw podcast, AI Lawyer. In this episode, host Joel Cohen is joined by Judge Paul Grimm for a conversation about one of the most unsettling problems facing the legal system: what happens when audio, video, and other forms of evidence can be generated, manipulated, or challenged by artificial intelligence?Judge Grimm explains how AI is

Jason Boehmig (Ironclad): The Rise of the Legal Technologist Mar 10, 2026 1:17:48 Artificial intelligence is beginning to change not just how lawyers work, but what parts of the job remain distinctly human. In this episode of New Law Order, we speak with Jason Boehmig, founder and CEO of Ironclad, about how AI and legal technology are reshaping the structure of the legal profession.Boehmig explains to hosts Joel and John that software is increasingly taking over the mechanical

Gretta Rusanow (Citi): The New Math of Law Firm Profitability Feb 24, 2026 1:04:28 Law firms like to describe themselves as simple partnerships. Economically, they behave more like highly tuned performance machines balancing profit, talent, leverage, and now — technological disruption. In this episode of New Law Order, Joel Cohen and Yale Law Professor John Morley are joined by Gretta Rusanow, Managing Director and Head of Advisory Services at Citi’s Law Firm Group, to examine w

Scott Shapiro (Yale Law): Law as Code & the AI Power Shift Feb 17, 2026 1:25:13 Artificial intelligence is usually sold as productivity: faster research, faster drafting, faster answers. In this episode of New Law Order, Yale Law professor Scott Shapiro explains that the real story is power. If the law is a system for coordinating human behavior at scale, then tools that can interpret rules, test edge cases, and generate persuasive legal analysis may change who can navigate t

Chris Bogart (Burford Capital): Litigation as an Asset Class Feb 10, 2026 1:22:35 What happens when you stop treating litigation as a cost center—and start treating it like capital? In this episode of New Law Order, Joel Cohen and John Morley sit down with Chris Bogart, co-founder and CEO of Burford Capital, to unpack how legal finance emerged—and what it reveals about the structural limits of the modern law firm.Bogart traces the origins of litigation finance to his time as a

John Quinn (Quinn Emanuel): Building a World Litigation Empire Feb 3, 2026 1:15:19 John Quinn proved the legal industry orthodoxy wrong. In a world obsessed with the "full-service" law firm model—where litigation can feel like a service arm for lucrative corporate retainers—Quinn bet the house on a radical idea: a global firm dedicated exclusively to legal disputes. Today, Quinn Emanuel is a litigation behemoth with over 1,000 lawyers, generating billions in revenue without clos

Brad Karp (Paul Weiss): Law According to Karp Jan 27, 2026 1:14:15 Brad Karp, Chairman of Paul Weiss, is arguably the most powerful law firm leader in America—and he has had a hell of a year. Eight weeks after suffering a heart attack, Karp faced what he calls the "existential crisis" of his career: a "nuclear" executive order from the Trump administration designed to destabilize his firm.In this exclusive and candid interview, Karp sits down with Joel and John t

Jeffrey Toobin: Bending the Knee – Trump's Executive Orders on Law Firms Jan 20, 2026 1:16:26 What happens when the President of the United States declares war on specific law firms? In a move described as "literally without precedent" , the Trump administration unleashed executive orders targeting major firms like Paul Weiss and Perkins Coie—not for illegal activity, but for perceived political offenses. The sanctions threatened to revoke security clearances, bar lawyers from federal buil

New Law Order

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