Outbound Squad
This sales podcast is for B2B reps and sales teams who want to turn complete strangers into paying customers. Join me (you can call me JBay) as I interview sales experts, leaders, and top-performing reps to learn the stories, secrets, and skills of the world’s most successful sales professionals.
Episodes
World-class enablement, AE self-sourcing, and onboarding
In this episode, Jason and Mitch Thomas from Brooksource, talk about how to position enablement as a true sales partner, the plays their nearly 200 AEs use to self-source pipeline without an SDR team, and the in-person cohort onboarding that gets new reps ramped fast.
Check out more free content and get help with outbound at https://outboundsquad.com.
From rep at ADP to CRO at Houzz with Tara Di-Cristo-Schmitt
In this episode, Jason and Tara Di-Cristo-Schmitt from Houzz talk about her journey from rep at ADP to CRO, what she learned about authentic leadership and transparency at HubSpot, how she prioritized her first 90 days as a first-time CRO, and her weekly rhythm for managing hundreds of reps.
Check out more free content and get help with outbound at https://outboundsquad.com.
Scaling unconventional outbound with Sr Dir of Sales Development at Rippling
In this episode, Jason and Ken Amar from Rippling, talk about how he booked meetings at a 41% rate as an SDR, the custom landing pages and groundswell calls Rippling uses to break into accounts, high-value gifting and in-person plays that actually scale, and where he thinks the SDR role is headed next.
Check out more free content and get help with outbound at https://outboundsquad.com.
“Our BDR booked 7 meetings yesterday” with Paul Salamanca
In this episode, Jason and Paul Salamanca from Cymon AI, talk about how his BDR booked 7 meetings in a single day, the outbound motion two BDRs use to generate 30 to 40 meetings a month, his AI maturity model for sales orgs, and the coaching layer that ties it all together.
Check out more free content and get help with outbound at https://outboundsquad.com.
Leading teams at Google, Apple, Amazon, Gong, Yelp, and more
In this episode, Jason and Miram Ebrahim from Nomix Group, talk about creative plays that land meetings, nailing your first 90 days in a new leadership role, and giving fearless feedback.
Check out more free content and get help with outbound at https://outboundsquad.com.
Armand Farrokh on building an outbound machine + creative ways to build pipeline
In this episode, Jason and Armand Farrokh from 30 Minutes to President's Club talk about turning around an SDR team fast, the frameworks every outbound rep needs, and creative pipeline plays beyond cold calls and emails.
Check out more free content and get help with outbound at https://outboundsquad.com.
State of Outbound (Guest appearance on Mike Weinberg's podcast)
Jason was a guest on The Sales Management. Simplified. Podcast hosted by Mike Weinberg. In this episode, they talked about why outbound is harder than ever, what broke the classic SDR–AE model, and Jason’s Too Good To Ignore outbound methodology.
Check out more free content and get help with outbound at https://outboundsquad.com.
Outbound Masterclass: The ultimate guide to building qualified pipeline in 2026 (Full Course)
Get free access to the full course + companion workbook (50+ pages of frameworks, templates, and AI prompts):
https://masterclass.outboundsquad.com/
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Outbound isn't dead, but it's broken. Reply rates are below 2%. Connect rates are below 4%. The irony? The tools designed to make outbound easier have made it exponentially harder.
But the top 25% of reps are booking 4.3x more meetings than eve
In 15 minutes, I'll help you handle any objection prospects throw at you (Mini Course)
Get free access to the full course + companion workbook (50+ pages of frameworks, templates, and AI prompts):
https://masterclass.outboundsquad.com/
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"I'm not interested."
"We already have a solution."
"Send me an email."
Sound familiar? Objections aren't rejections. They're signals that you haven't earned trust yet. Most reps freeze or fumble. You won't after this.
In 15 minutes, you'll ma
Cold Calling: Give me 23 minutes and I'll eliminate your fear of the phones (Mini Course)
Get free access to the full course + companion workbook (50+ pages of frameworks, templates, and AI prompts):
https://masterclass.outboundsquad.com/
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Less than 4% of cold calls get answered. And when they do, most reps fumble the first 30 seconds. This mini course will fix that.
In 23 minutes, you'll learn the exact cold call framework that's helped thousands of reps go from dreading the pho
Messaging: Why prospects ignore your cold emails and cold calls (and how to fix it)
Get free access to the full course + companion workbook:
https://masterclass.outboundsquad.com/
91% of buyers believe salespeople don't understand what they do, what they care about, or what their company does. That's not a cold email or cold calling problem. That's a messaging problem.
In this episode, I break down the exact messaging framework we use with every Outbound Squad client to fix th
Mastering the Framework that Triples Cold Call Conversions
Jason was a guest on the recent webinar hosted by ZoomInfo. In this episode, Jason and Michael George from ZoomInfo reveal a proven framework that can triple your cold call conversions. Tune in to learn the strategies, mindset, and data-backed tactics that turn hesitant prospects into eager buyers.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
AI in sales masterclass & why RevOps will disappear with Kyle Vamvouris
In this episode, Jason and Kyle Vamvouris from SalesThread break down how AI is revolutionizing sales strategies and why RevOps as we know it might soon vanish. Tune in for bold insights and actionable tactics to stay ahead in the future of sales.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
The Outbound Equation: How to Secure High Quality Meetings
Jason was a guest on the recent webinar hosted by ZoomInfo. In this episode, Jason and Calvin Flax break down the Outbound Equation and reveal how to win high-quality meetings in a slower market through smarter outreach, stronger offers, and genuine buyer connection.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Sales enablement masterclass with Nate Vogel
In this episode, Jason, Clara Johnson, and Nate Vogel dive into a high-energy sales enablement masterclass, unpacking how to build world-class programs that drive performance at scale using data, coaching, and customer-focused frameworks.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
How to crush the Director of SDR role with Rippling’s Sr SDR Director
In this episode, Jason and Rippling’s Senior SDR Director, Bert Brokaw, talk about what it really takes to crush the Director of SDR role, from leading managers and aligning with executives to building a high-performing outbound culture. Tune in to learn how top leaders grow strategic SDR teams that consistently deliver results.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://
Not partnering with sales enablement? Big mistake
In this episode, Jason talks about why sales leaders must partner with enablement to drive real culture change and shares three lessons from top teams—becoming a trusted advisor, sharing the stage with reps, and prioritizing manager enablement over rep-only training.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Here’s PROOF that AI isn’t replacing SDRs anytime soon
In this episode, Jason breaks down why AI isn’t replacing SDRs anytime soon, sharing real hiring data from leading AI companies and explaining why human reps who learn to leverage AI will outperform, not be replaced by it.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
How to Cold Call for Higher Connect Rates, Better Conversations, and Meetings That Actually Show Up
Jason was a guest on the Outbound Kitchen - Sales Podcast hosted by Elric Legloire to share tactical cold-calling frameworks—using permission-based openers, problem-focused language, and compelling offers to boost connect rates, spark real interest, and book meetings that actually show up.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
From IC to SVP of Sales with Aaron Rissler
In this episode, Aaron Rissler shares his journey from IC to VP of Sales at Buyer's Edge Platform, revealing the lessons, strategies, and leadership insights he’s learned along the way to build high-performing teams, navigate corporate politics, and level up at every stage of a sales career.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
The Outbound Equation: A proven methodology to secure high-quality meetings in 2026
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on The Outbound Equation. Jason walks through a proven methodology for securing high-quality meetings in 2026 by reinforcing fundamentals like offers that deliver real value, world-class execution on phone, email, and social, and the critical role of leadership in creating predictable outbound pipeline.
Check out more free content and get coachin
From Rep To Sales Exec with Bryan Evans, VP of Sales at Neo4j
In this episode, Bryan Evans shares his journey from rep to VP of Sales at Neo4j and the leadership habits that help sales teams execute, forecast accurately, and win bigger deals.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Sales Enablement Masterclass with VP of Sales Enablement at Rippling, Jonas Master
In this episode, Jason Bay sits down with Rippling’s VP of Sales Enablement, Jonas Master to explore how effective sales training, paired with clear priorities, measurement, and reinforcement, drives real behavior change and consistent performance gains.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
A simple framework to get AEs self-sourcing pipeline
In this episode, Jason Bay and Clara Johnson share how sales leaders can build a culture of AE self-sourcing by weaving prospecting into weekly rhythms and leading from the front.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Improving cold call qualification
In this episode, Jason and Clara shared how SDRs can improve cold call qualification to boost pipeline conversion and set AEs up for success.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
"AI doesn't have a point of view" (a warning)
In this episode, Jason warns about the dangers of over-relying on AI and shares tips for leveraging it effectively in sales.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
[Playbook] State of Outbound: AI and what to expect in 2026
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on the state of outbound. Sean Dwyer of ZoomInfo joined us to share what’s changing, what’s working, and how the best teams are adapting their outbound motion in 2026.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
“We increased pipeline by 170% this month!”
In this episode, Jason and Clara Johnson break down how narrowing your outbound focus by industry, persona, and triggers led one team to a 170% increase in pipeline while driving higher response rates and bigger deals.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
How to 3x your contact rates
In this episode, Jason and Clara Johnson break down why reps need an omnichannel outbound strategy and show how using coordinated calls, emails, social touches, and AI-driven research can triple contact rates and unlock pipeline.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
[Playbook] How two reps closed a $30M+ deal (the largest in company history)
This episode is the audio from our webinar on sales mastery. We were joined by Rona Cohen and Ryan Smith at ZoomInfo to share how they closed the largest deal in company history ($30M+) and what it takes to get big opportunities across the finish line.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Dialers won’t fix your cold calling problem
In this episode, Jason and Clara Johnson break down why autodialers hurt connect and conversion rates, and share smarter ways to fix your cold calling results, including opening with a concise buyer-focused reverse pitch.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Biggest mistake when re-engaging closed/lost opps
In this episode, Jason and Clara Johnson share a simple framework for re-engaging closed lost opportunities by using time-based insights, past deal context, and tailored messaging to turn overlooked accounts into new pipeline.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Meet our new Head of Training, Clara Johnson!
In this episode, Jason announces Clara Johnson as the new Head of Training in Outbound Squad, discussing how her previous experience as a successful sales leader will help them grow the company, create a formal outbound methodology, and produce better thought leadership content. They also discuss the future of outbound sales, the potential impact of AI, and the importance of adapting to new sales
Negotiations Masterclass With Todd Caponi
In this episode, Todd Caponi shares how to negotiate effectively in sales, covering the history of negotiation, common myths, the four levers of negotiating, and strategies to protect your contract value while driving deals forward.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
[Playbook] Steal this PipeGen framework: How we generated $70M+ in new pipeline every week
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on pipeline generation. Marcus Chan from Venli joined us to share how to build a repeatable pipeline generation framework to drive consistent and high-quality pipeline in 2025.
Note: Audio issues occurred during the webinar recording. We apologize for sections where the audio is missing or unclear.
Check out more free content and get coaching
A masterclass on sales coaching with Mark Hunter
In this episode, Mark Hunter shares how sales leaders can build a strong team culture and coach effectively by understanding what motivates each rep, leading by example, keeping energy high, and delivering focused, personalized coaching that drives lasting behavior change.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
How to handle vet AEs who think they know it all
In this episode of our new behind-the-scenes series with the Outbound Squad sales training team, Jason Bay and Clara Johnson share how sales leaders can get veteran reps prospecting again using data, AI prompts, and a “red-pen” approach to AI.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
A simple framework to get AEs self-sourcing pipeline
In this episode of our new behind-the-scenes series with the Outbound Squad sales training team, Jason Bay and Clara Johnson share how sales leaders can build a culture of AE self-sourcing by weaving prospecting into weekly rhythms and leading from the front.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Improving cold call qualification
In this episode, Jason and Clara Johnson kick off a new behind-the-scenes series with the Outbound Squad sales training team. They shared how SDRs can improve cold call qualification to boost pipeline conversion and set AEs up for success.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
[Playbook] Account Executives: Steal this framework to self-source 30%+ of your pipeline (without making hundreds of cold calls)
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on AE self-sourcing. Erika Fuchs from EliseAI, Rob Anderson from TitanX, and Darin Alpert from ZoomInfo joined us to share how top reps self-source pipeline to book more meetings and crush quota, without making hundreds of cold calls.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Cold Calling: Use this intro to book 3x more meetings
In this episode, Jason shares some cold calling tips and examples that will help you outperform average reps by 3x.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Steal this cold calling framework to book 2-3x more meetings
Jason joined The Chris Bussing Podcast [ Sell More | Live More ]. In this episode, they talked about AI in outbound sales, the "Reason to Meet" strategy, key sales tools, standout messaging, and cold outreach tactics.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
[Playbook] State of Cold Calling (from analyzing 1B cold calls)
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on cold calling. Colin Specter from Orum and Calvin Flax from ZoomInfo joined us to share what top reps do to land more meetings through the phone, based on insights from 1B cold calls completed using Orum.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
"AI doesn't have a point of view" (a warning)
In this episode, Jason warns about the dangers of over-relying on AI and shares tips for leveraging it effectively in sales.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
10 ways the best teams are booking meetings right now
Jason was one of the speakers on Sell Better's webinar on cold outreach. In this episode, they shared simple-to-execute tactics the best teams use to land more meetings from calls, emails, and LinkedIn messages.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
[Playbook] No, cold calling isn't dead (how to land a sh*t ton of meetings in 2025)
This episode is the audio from our webinar on cold calling. Nick Cegelski from 30 Minutes to President's Club and Waseem Kaati from Shopify joined us to share how to increase cold calling conversion rates.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
Why your outbound messaging doesn't land
In this episode, Jason shares the levels of relevance in sales messaging and where you can use this to outbound and sell better.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
[Playbook] Cold Email: Analyzing 85M+ cold emails to find what’s working in 2025
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on cold email. Armand Farrokh from 30 Minutes to President’s Club and Jonathan Mack from ZoomInfo joined us to break down a proven cold email framework and unpack insights from our analysis of 85M+ cold emails with Gong and 30MPC.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Using voicemails to increase cold email reply rates by 3x
In this episode, Jason shares why voicemails and AI screeners are the future of cold calling and how using relevance and social proof in your voicemails can 3x your reply rates.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
How to Build a Winning Sales Playbook with Kristie Jones
In this episode, Kristie Jones shared insights on creating effective sales playbooks and leveraging AI to personalize and enhance the sales process.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
[Playbook] Outbound With AI: How to pack your pipeline full of qualified meetings and opportunities
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on outbound with AI. Andy Mewborn from Distribute joined us to share how some of the most elite sales teams in the world (at Shopify, Gong, Zoom, and more) use AI to book meetings.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
AI Masterclass: THE guide on how to leverage AI for outbound with Elric Legloire
In this episode, Elric Legloire discusses the six pillars of how salespeople leverage AI and the evolution of AI in outbound sales.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
Cold Calling: Use this intro to book 3x more meetings
In this episode, Jason shares some cold calling tips and examples that will help you outperform average reps by 3x.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
The Offer: Why no one responds to your cold outreach
In this episode, Jason shares three types of offers you can use to help you land more meetings from your cold outreach.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
[Playbook] Multi-threading: Get to power, win bigger deals, and expand customer accounts
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on multi-threading. Heath Barnett of Mixmax, Amber Smith, and Karen Hor of ZoomInfo joined us to share how top reps increase their win rates by 2-3x, shorten sales cycles, and drive expansion by mastering multi-threading.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com.
State of GTM with Heath Barnett, VP of Revenue at Mixmax
In this episode, Heath Barnett shares the evolution of the buyer's journey, how to optimize sales processes with AI and technology, and the future of sales and marketing in a buyer-centric world.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
From $1M to $100M: How to crush quota with Andrew Barbuto
In this episode, Andrew Barbuto shares his success story of growing a book of business from $1 million to $100 million in six years through hard work and continuous improvement. He emphasizes the importance of becoming an expert, conducting thorough research, and delivering value throughout the sales process.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
[Live Training] Objection Handling Masterclass
This episode is the audio from our webinar on objection handling. We were joined by Will Aitken, Founder of WillAitken.com, Jack Wauson, GTM Team Lead at Mixmax, and Abdulla Casino, Manager of Sales Development at ZoomInfo.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
[Live Training] Cold Email: How to land a ton of meetings (without wasting hours personalizing)
This episode is the audio from our webinar on cold email. We were joined by Jack Wauson of Mixmax and Florin Tatulea and walked through how to personalize your cold emails without wasting a ton of time researching.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
Founder & CEO of Orum, Jason Dorfman
In this episode, Jason Dorfman shares a solid cold calling framework, proven tactics for leveling up your cold calls, and effective strategies for managing sales teams.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
How to measure, optimize, and scale sales training programs with Ross Nibur
In this episode, Ross Nibur shares how to measure, optimize, and scale sales training programs by identifying the right metrics, driving behavior change, and understanding what truly works. He also highlights the importance of building data-driven sales strategies.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
[Playbook] Cold Email: Steal this AI framework for double-digit reply rates
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on cold email. Jack Wauson of Mixmax, Meghan Morrison, and Cir Crawford of ZoomInfo joined us to share the state of cold email in 2025, a proven cold email framework, and how top teams are leveraging AI.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
How to coach your reps + world-class discovery with Keith Weightman
In this episode, Keith Weightman talks about how to create a coaching culture where both reps and leaders receive the feedback they need to grow. They also cover how to prepare for impactful discovery calls and bring the right stakeholders into the conversation.
Check out more free content and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
Providing value is mostly B.S. (do this instead) with Leslie Venetz
In this episode, Leslie Venetz talks about building and scaling a modern outbound strategy that actually earns trust and drives revenue. She shares insights on defining your ICP, offering value, and choosing the right channels.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
[Playbook] How to build and scale a world-class outbound program
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on building and scaling an outbound program. Kyle Norton from Owner.com and Diana Gates from Shopify joined us to share 7 key strategies to build a world-class outbound motion.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
Steal this cold calling framework to book 2-3x more meetings
Jason Bay was a guest on The Chris Bussing Podcast [ Sell More | Live More ]. In this episode, they talked about AI in outbound sales, the "Reason to Meet" strategy, essential sales tools, standout messaging, and cold outreach tactics.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
Expert Techniques for Selling to the C-Suite
Jason Bay was one of the speakers on Sell Better's recent webinar on selling to the C-suite. In this episode, they shared everything from how to multi-thread deals better—to how to nail the first meeting with a senior exec.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
10 ways the best teams are booking meetings right now
Jason was one of the speakers on Sell Better's recent webinar on cold outreach. In this episode, they shared simple-to-execute tactics the best teams use to land more meetings from calls, emails, and LinkedIn messages.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
7 hard truths about outbound in 2025
In this episode, Jason shares the seven hard truths about outbound in 2025 and how to adapt to stay ahead.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
[Playbook] No, cold calling isn't dead (how to land a sh*t ton of meetings in 2025)
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on cold calling. Nick Cegelski and Waseem Kaati from Shopify joined us to share how to increase cold calling conversion rates.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
Why your outbound messaging doesn't land
In this episode, Jason shares the levels of relevance in sales messaging and where you can use this to outbound and sell better.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
Stay close to the problem
In this episode, Jason shares how the best SDRs stay close to the problem to level up their outbound results.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
[Playbook] Cold Email: A repeatable framework for double-digit reply rates (backed by science)
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on cold email. Danielle Holmes and Kevin Papili of ZoomInfo joined me to share a repeatable cold email framework to drive double-digit reply rate.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
How to instantly upgrade your cold calls
In this episode, Jason shares how to nail the first 60 seconds of a cold call to land the meeting.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
Stop complaining about your reps (and do this instead)
In this episode, Jason shares why reps don't use the stuff sales enablement and sales managers create for them plus some ideas on how to fix it.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
World-class SDR leaders DO NOT accept this
In this episode, Jason shares a few reasons for high attrition rates in SDR orgs and how to fix them.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
Execs don't take meetings from cold emails unless...
In this episode, Jason shares the challenges and tactics for effectively securing meetings with enterprise executives through cold emails and calls.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
[PipeGen Live] Outbound in 2025: What’s new, what’s dead, and what will never go out of style
This episode is the audio from our recent webinar on outbound in 2025. Kayla Prunier of ZoomInfo and Scott Leese of Scott Leese Consulting joined me to share insights you can use to hit the ground running and have a successful 2025.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
The worst AEs use customer stories that sound like this..
In this episode, Jason shares how to leverage customer stories to build credibility and engage buyers effectively during cold calls.
Check out the show notes, more free content, and get coaching at https://outboundsquad.com
World-class SDRs are NOT career SDRs
In this episode, Jason shares strategies to retain your best SDRs by creating a clear progression path and keeping them engaged. From implementing a “belt system” with tiered roles and pay bumps to providing AE prep enablement, we’ll cover how to motivate your team to stick around and crush their goals while waiting for that promotion. Plus, we’ll discuss how SDRs can focus on generating high-qual
