The Panel
The Panel features three founders—Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal—discussing product strategy in the age of AI. Each episode covers wins, misses, and lessons learned from building businesses. They explore how to create better products and make smarter decisions. The conversation ultimately focuses on building a better business and a better life.
Episodes
The Harder It Is, The Better
Corey shares how he moved from marketing into coding, why he still keeps technical co-founders on some products, and how he thinks about balancing services, software, and content. The group also digs into AEO, paid ads, churn in productized services, and why manual customer research still matters.Timestamps:00:00 - Intro02:20 - Corey Haines and Conversion Factory04:33 - Does everyone stil
It's the End of the World of Coding, And I Feel Fine
Is DHH right in his prediction that handcrafted coding is done, is trying to "be the best" the best strategy, and can you skip the hard work and just do the easy parts of product launching and still find success?Chapters:(00:11) - Welcome to the Panel Podcast
(03:04) - DHH's Flamethrower Keynote
(09:07) - The End of Handcrafting Code
(12:35) - Who Wants It the Most
(16:08) - Marketing wit
Eat Your Customer's Pain
We’re joined by Aaron Francis who shares his experience after joining Laravel, Laravel's evolution, marketing strategies, and the future of cloud computing. How is Jev changing the cost and way we use LLMs. And what is the future of education and training on the web?Timestamps:00:00 - Intro03:03 - Aaron's Laracon reveal and why he took the job09:03 - Open source roots, cloud money, and VC
Finding Carol
Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal to dissect Jason Cohen's latest skills, particularly the 'Find Your Carol' AI exercise that reveals how customers truly perceive a business. The trio debates aggressive growth experiments versus refining existing funnels, analyzing why street interviews might outperform traditional UGC ads for prospecting. They also tackle the strategic decision
Patience & Urgency
Jordan says you need to have patience and urgency. Justin says, "focus on the little red box that creates results." Brian is thinking strategically about courses vs. downloadable products.Chapters:(00:10) - Welcome to The Panel
(01:18) - Summer Ending and Fall Rush
(04:28) - Motivation and Dissatisfaction
(09:40) - Revenue Goal of One Million
(12:54) - Patient Urgency Concept
(21:11) - Fo
More ambitious? Building things we wouldn't have before
What "new" value can we create with AI? Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about how we can be more creative and ambitious and build things we wouldn't have built before. We also chatted about Grok Bot and xAI's land grab (Cursor acquisition and the SuperGrok Heavy plan). Also... Brian broke up with Claude?!Timestamps:00:00 - Intro03:34 - The sudden rise and appeal of Grokbot11:49 - Claude fa
Acquired By Bending Spoons
Is there a potential SaaS pocalypse? How can we adapt to changes and leverage new models for growth? Jordan, Justin, and Brian explore the current state of the software market, private equity dynamics, and the impact of AI on valuations.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction02:01 Finding distribution is difficult on FB Marketplace and online12:05 The future of building software with AI and agent-f
Fiddling With Your Funnel
How's your funnel doing? Jordan and Brian are joined by Henry Poydar to chat about integrating human and autonomous agents, building and testing product prototypes in days, not years, the importance of flexible, adaptive funnels, and debate the future of SaaS, unbundling, and the agent-first software paradigm. Timestamps:YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or vi
DRUNK ON FABLE
What happens to the value of software when everyone can make software?Timestamps:00:00 Welcome to The Panel00:31 Brian’s Brighton Ruby trip03:12 Building FlyWrite in the car05:01 Why existing coding tools don’t work for writing07:20 What FlyWrite actually does11:37 Building version one with Fable16:04 Jordan’s weekend build and first AI-native workflow28:38 Claude Design and interactive p
I Want it That Way
Justin and Jordan talk about how Jordan made a change to their funnel and increased sign ups dramatically, improving team communication, conducting better employee reviews, and developing better workflows for project handoffs between employees when AI is being used.Timestamps:00:00 Intro02:45 Taking control of your funnel05:24 Why trust matters in e-commerce08:18 Optimizing the customer e
Price Fixing FTW!
If you're trying to fix your funnel, where do you start? And how much of an impact do we think Fable is going to have on AI pricing? Timestamps:00:00 Intro03:27 Impact of AI and Market Dynamics06:24 Taking Control of Your Funnel17:12 The impact of Fable on AI Costs26:04 SpaceX IPO and Betting on Space42:56 Opportunities for SaaS Businesses in 2026 with Domain Expertise01:07:36 Allowances
BIG CITY ENERGY
Justin's got a major life question for the podcast, Jordan's trying to not be angry, and Brian thinks he's cracked the video editing code.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction01:06 Justin's Big Question10:04 Personal Reflections on City Life13:05 Family Dynamics and Future Living Plans24:37 The Energy of New Beginnings30:22 The Wisdom of Solitude vs. Ambition38:58 Accelerating Growth and Optimiza
I spend money. People see the product. They buy. We grow.
After figuring out how to stay in shape with exercise, Jordan and Brian wrestle with what each other's north star should be in their day to day work. Timestamps:00:00 Introduction 01:19 Peptides and Supplements08:06 Gym vs Home Workouts14:02 Daily Walking17:01 Brian's Calorie Tracking21:40 The Importance of Optimization24:27 Jordan's Ad Spend Thoughts29:08 SEO and Email Marketing Automati
Vibe coding is not a real business model
How is multiplayer being addressed in AI, should we scale humans or agents, and is every small business going to vibe code their own apps? With special guest Henry Poydar.Timestamps:00:00 Welcome to The Panel03:06 Business Updates05:53 Coordination Challenges in Teams with AI11:48 Trust and Accountability in Team Dynamics17:45 The Future of Team Structures20:30 Scaling with Agents vs. Tra
Burning Out Doing Lines of Code
Are you feeling a mixture of excitement and burnout at the pace AI coding seems to be pushing you? Is it sustainable in the long run or do you worry about what you'll be like in 6 months time?Timestamps:00:00 Introduction03:22 Advertising Strategies and Funnels08:12 Jordan experiments with Partnership Ads and Organic Content Ads12:03 Transistor's Video Podcasting Platform Launch21:32 Bria
A series of miracles (with Jason Cohen)
Jason Cohen (founder of WP Engine) joined as a surprise guest. We got into his writing process, why "distribution is the new moat" is either not new or not true, what actually counts as a moat (Basecamp, Linear, Lemon Squeezy), and his framework for funnels: the quality of who enters the top matters more than every other step combined.Jason's new book Hidden Multipliers is available for p
Marinating in the sauce
SaaS life! How do you deal with the daily sales anxiety?Brian recounts a major March spike from viral YouTube, a full site redesign and repositioning, and the fear of launches falling flat, while Justin describes simplifying Transistor’s funnel and tracking daily signups. We debate when to “double down on what’s working” versus making scary directional changes, emphasizing founder gut, cr
You Down With ICP?
Justin, Jordan, and Brian discuss the importance of understanding your ideal customer profile, the role of ambition in customer segmentation, and effective strategies for content marketing and product positioning in the tech and SaaS industries.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction03:22 Authenticity in Content Creation06:25 Updates on Business and Personal Life09:21 Partnerships: Successes and Ch
The power of attention
In this episode we discuss how small teams can leverage AI as teammates, the impact on business outcomes, and the cultural shifts driven by AI advancements. How would Steve Jobs handle marketing and selling AI at Apple? How do the kids today think about AI? And Jordan explains the Allbirds nonsense.Chapters:00:00 Introduction01:38 The Evolution of Teamwork and Tools07:41 Balancing Account
Is "vision" overrated?
Does vision matter? And how far into the future should your vision be these days? And how do we deal with copycats in the age of AI? And who is our money pin in the Anthropic vs OpenAI vs Google horse race, especially with mythos in the news.Timestamps:YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on
Respite from the Dopamine Machine
Why doesn't AI prompt us more often if it's so smart? Ryan Hefner joins us to chat about our daily drivers for shoes, IDE, AI provider, getting the news, and planning a vacation. Timestamps:(00:07) - Introducing Ryan Hefner
(03:53) - Today's topic: how we choose our daily drivers
(04:54) - Updates with Justin
(08:54) - Update from Brian
(14:16) - Ryan's Launch week concept
(23:04) - The c
Can AI be your CRM?
Justin's hosting this one and he brought along Ben Curtis from Honeybadger to talk about how AI can be a CRM and also your designer.Timestamps:(00:15) - Introducing Ben Curtis
(02:57) - How is Honeybadger using AI?
(06:35) - How do you determine which model to use for different problems?
(09:33) - How are we using AI in marketing and sales?
(24:09) - How Steve Schoger used AI to design
(3
Scam or no scam? (with Jordan)
It's Jordan's turn to host and he's got some AI companies he's not sure about...Timestamps:(00:06) - Jordan's episode to host!
(01:19) - Business update from Brian
(05:45) - Justin's business update
(14:09) - How Jordan advertises to his existing customers
(21:50) - Jordan's business update
(28:48) - Is Polsia fake or real?
(40:47) - Adam Wathan announces ui.sh
(58:12) - Is Delve AI compl
The money tunnel
Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about the opportunity costs in business decision-making, the impact of AI on marketing channels and strategies, and building custom internal tools with AI versus SaaS solutions.Timestamps:(00:44) - Brian takes the lead
(02:17) - Opportunity costs
(17:29) - What is Brian's opportunity on Twitter?
(21:41) - Figuring out what Builder Methods is and who it's for
A rainbow of internet fantasies
What happened to you in Mexico? Justin is back from his co-founder retreat with Jon on Holbox Island. He gets vulnerable about the drift that naturally happens in a remote co-founder relationship, the big conversations they'd been avoiding, and the realization that alignment isn't a one-time thing (it requires constant investment!). Jordan and Brian weigh in on co-founder dynamics, decisi
Embracing our AI business owning bots
Brian and Jordan talk about the need for developers to adapt to survive, Brian debates how much of a content creator he is vs product seller, Jordan relates his experience talking with investors, and the rise of zero human companies ZHC.Timestamps:(00:18) - Welcoming Justin er Jordan back to the show
(02:48) - Companies that we're surprised aren't adopting AI tools
(11:49) - Roles are ble
A surprise announcement
We make 2 big announcements about changes to The Panel. Then we debate whether there's a founder branding advantage and how AI will affect small software teams in 2026.Timestamps:(00:46) - Our first announcement
(02:20) - Why are we bringing Jordan on as a co-host?
(06:51) - Why did Jordan want to join The Panel?
(14:48) - What's the new format for The Panel?
(18:29) - Is there a founder
Changes coming to The Panel podcast
Important: we're no longer livestreaming on Justin's personal YouTube channel. Make sure you're subscribed to The Panel's channel to get notified when we go live:Subscribe to The Panel YouTube here -->Join us FRIDAY (tomorrow, Feb 20) at 11 AM Pacific (2 pm EST) for a surprise announcement:https://www.youtube.com/live/sxASjnzAYkwWe'll be announcing:- A new ███████ ██████ ████- And a
Get to the sauna!
Brian and Justin jump off Matt Shumer's "Something Big is Happening" article to ask questions like is something big happening in AI that even regular folks need to be preparing for? Is this the most important year of your work as a software developer? Should you be getting your financial house in order to prepare for what's about to hit us all?Timestamps:(00:12) - Sick snow
(02:46) - Some
OpenClaw and Building Fake Apps
Come meet the crew of AI agents Brian has working for him, Justin's building fake apps to experiment and find out what he wants for real apps, and why don't we feel like we can relax now that we're doing ok?Timestamps:(00:45) - What we're talking about this episode
(03:14) - Brian's OpenClaw setup
(11:57) - The cost of token usage with OpenClaw
(17:32) - What makes the memory better in Op
"What happens when engineering outpaces marketing?" – Jordan Gal
Jordan Gal joins The Panel to get some thoughts out about how software development feels like it's shifted since the holiday break, the lowering cost of making a mistake, how his team has to get ready for the new AI first workflow, marketing in the age of AI, and what happens to funding startups when anyone can build the app?Timestamps:(00:06) - Welcome
(00:20) - Introducing Jordan
(01:34
2026: We Choose Hope
Now that the holiday break is over, how are we feeling about 2026? We're talking about the new ideas we have to build or work on, as well as predictions for 2026 in AI, building, normal tech usage, and social media.Timestamps:(00:07) - New year, new excitement
(01:40) - What has changed since the holiday break?
(06:18) - Is Justin going to republish Marketing for Developers?
(11:30) - Bui
2026: Panic or Hope?
We're looking back at what our thoughts were about 2025, and scheming ideas and plans for 2026. How do you hand over decision making in your business in an AI world? How does remote work first affect junior developers? And do you panic when sales slow down? Adjust? Rethink everything?Timestamps:(00:06) - Does Transistor get quiet around the Xmas holidays?
(02:08) - Dealing with insecurity
Do you worry about getting crushed by the competition?
Justin shares his thoughts on competition crushing his business, Brian contemplates open sourcing an idea for front end AI tooling, and when should you run with a new idea vs knowing when to drop it.Timestamps:(00:00) - Get into it!
(00:47) - A founder has to worry about threats and opportunities
(17:55) - What got us here won't get us there
(28:42) - Why are trials increasing in 2025?
(3
Filtering out bad ideas
Brian and Justin discuss the recent launch of Filterhawk, which Brian built to replace Gmail's built-in filters. They also talk about SaaS marketing strategies (which channels still work?). Justin shares some initial numbers from the Black Friday sale.Timestamps:(00:06) - Follow up on last week's Justin mystery
(02:51) - Brian launching Filterhawk
(13:29) - How did Brian build Filterhawk
Mystery caller
Brian and Justin are joined by a surprise guest: Nadav Keyson, founder of Riverside. We had an impromptu conversation about how Riverside launched (and found traction), the impact of funding (vs bootstrapping), how Navad thinks about competition, and whether he thinks having investors leads to more stress.Timestamps:(00:10) - Agenda for the episode
(02:19) - The future of The Panel
(16:18
Maybe, do the opposite
AI dev is changing rapidly, and... AI dev is rapidly changing how we build websites and apps. Brian and Justin wrestle with this new reality and discuss the different phases of a startup, how indies can cultivate brand loyalty, and when you should maybe do the opposite of what everyone else is doing.Timestamps:(00:00) - What does Justin do all day?
(00:14) - Welcome to The Panel
(04:05) -
Going Back to Grade 12
Justin spoke to a grade 12 class about entrepreneurship, and was surprised by what he learned about teenagers.Brian has thoughts on the impact of Agent OS v2.1 and struggles with the support burden of open-source software. They talk about “Wealth is the freedom from having to monetize every idea." Also: Johnny Ive and Rivian founder RJ Scaringe's product design processes.Timestamps:(00:00
Double duty with Aaron Francis
Aaron Francis joins The Panel this week to talk about entrepreneurship, programming, and parenting. We chatted about how personal experiences shape our business journeys, the evolution of programming tools, and the importance of identifying market signals for success. Timestamps:(00:16) - Aaron Francis joins The Panel
(02:06) - How we're teaching our kids about programming?
(09:36) - The
Surviving on the internet
Justin is impressed with V0's ability to build working prototypes quickly. We've also got Sora 2 thoughts. And... what should we teach our kids when AI makes everything easy? Brian launches Agent OS v2. Could either of us survive without the internet for more than a day?Timestamps:(00:00) - This can be the show
(00:20) - Prototyping Transistor's episode creation UI in v0
(05:39) - Who wou
Will vibe coding and AI give product people an advantage?
Justin Jackson and Brian Casel discuss the evolving landscape of entrepreneurship, particularly in the context of AI's impact on product development, creativity, and the job market. They explore the importance of having a clear vision when using AI tools, the challenges faced by junior developers, and the enduring need for human connection in art and media. The discussion also touches on
Business vibes
Justin vibe-coded an app 5 minutes before recording this episode. Justin and the Transistor team just got back from Banff for their annual company retreat. How do these retreats actually work? What are they good for? Brian has some pretty good signups for Builder Methods Pro memberships! (How can he keep that momentum going?) He's also juggling Agent OS customer support.Timestamps:(00:00)
Business Dad, digital fatigue, Outro.fm, Builder Methods
We're joined by Ian Landsman, from the Mostly Technical podcast, joins us to chat about Outro.fm and Helpspot. We talk digital fatigue, the challenges of maintaining an online presence, the importance of building a community around shared interests, finding the right audience, and balancing personal goals with business objectives. As Brian prepares to launch Builder Methods Pro, we debat
Why does the same amount of effort produce wildly different results?
Brian is wondering: how do you manage a popular open source project? Justin went to Toronto and introduced his son to Adam Wathan, Wes Bos, Steve Schoger, and Caleb Porzio. Why does the same amount of effort produce wildly different results? And... is everyone getting tired of all this copycat content that's optimized for algorithms? Timestamps:(00:20) - Preview of what we're going to tal
A framework for getting what you want
Justin's been using Stripe Sigma to learn a lot more about the history of revenue at Transistor. He had a phone call with Jason Cohen about how to get what you want out of your business. And Brian talks through the same frameworks to figure out what might work best for Builder Methods including exploration of courses, cohorts, community, and more.Timestamps:(00:06) - We're back!
(00:59) -
Should we be outsourcing customer support to AI chatbots?
Justin is wondering whether AI customer support is worth it. Brian is navigating the emotional rollercoaster of YouTube. He's wondering whether he should pursue sponsorships as a revenue stream. Brian introduces Agent OS, a new development tool designed to streamline coding processes when working with AI tooling (which got a big reaction during the live stream).Timestamps:(00:33) - Justin
I don't love SaaS anymore
AI and programming is a hot topic, and it feels like Brian has found that "founder/audience" fit where his interests align with a wave of audience interest. He and Justin discuss their process for making YouTube videos. Justin also asks: "how do we ensure that our worst tendencies don’t bloom" when we're making products? (Founder retreats and masterminds come up). The big topic: Brian's
What's in Justin's Buckets?
It's Justin's turn in the hot seat to talk about what he's got in his buckets: which projects make the most money? Which take the most time? Where is he focused on breaking new ground? How does Transistor, The Podcast Standards Projects, and other projects he's got going all fit together? Plus: what kind of grit, desire, and resilience do you need to actually build a company that works?Ti
"Happy little shovels"
Brian Casel shares a first look at BuilderMethods.com. Brian dig into how he's going to grow an email list from scratch, and we had a great chat about what makes an email newsletter awesome.The bulk of our chat was about honestly assessing the resources, time, and energy Brian is putting into each project, and how much revenue each project is producing. (Check out Justin's diagram here)Ti
Brian Launches His New Project
Brian's walking through the new website and idea he's launching and getting Justin's feedback on what he thinks will work and what could use refining, the struggle of creating video content in 2025, keeping course content fresh, whether another podcast is the best use of time, and whether targeting junior or professional software developers is the best route to go.Timestamps:(00:00) - Wha
Changed my mind: AI is actually good for coding
Big episode! Brian shares the results of his launch of Instrumental Components (sales numbers, and how he's feeling). He also talks about his next project: helping devs and teams navigate how to use AI in software development and design. This episode was recorded live, with tons of folks joining us in the "panel" chat. Adam Wathan ended up joining us last-minute to talk about how he's cha
Back from London UK – so much to talk about
Justin just got back from a big trip to London UK for the podcast industry conference, and honestly, it's got him thinking about some big thoughts about the podcasting medium. This episode starts out with an honest chat between Brian and Justin: 'How are you feeling about the podcast so far?'Timestamps:(00:06) - Just the two of us
(01:06) - The struggle with guests on a podcast
(10:33) -
Brian's launch – how did it go?
Justin and Brian talk about how Brian's launch for Instrumental Components went. "Some things are way harder now that I'm older." Brian describes some of the technical challenges faced during the launch. There's also a meaty section about how much AI to use in software development (and how Brian uses it). At the end, Justin provides some feedback on Brian's pricing and marketing strategy.
"I hit my initial goal for my business – what's next?"
Justin is wrestling with strategic decisions for Transistor after hitting his initial "success goal," while Brian is two weeks away from launching a new Rails components product and grappling with how to reach his target audience.Timestamps:(00:06) - What are we talking about in this episode?
(01:41) - The importance of a founder or CEO
(05:40) - Learning about marketing from politics
(18
"Waiting for the Dam to Break" - Jordan Gal's bet on voice AI
Jordan Gal is breaking the mold with his new startup Rosie. He's targeting non-technical small business owners using consumer-style marketing rather than the B2B approaches most SaaS use. He talks about the opportunities and risks with AI-based startups, and how he's waiting for the "dam to break."Timestamps:(00:00) - Intro
(03:42) - Using what I want to listen to to guide what I create
(
Figuring out what to do next (Adam Wathan)
Adam Wathan sat down with Justin and Brian to talk about the challenge of staying motivated with your own business, even when you've "made it."However successful you think a well-known product or founder might be, the truth is everyone's dealing with stresses and challenges and things that don't work and figuring out what to do next. That's what this episode is about.The discussion also t
How do you find Founder-Product Fit?
Brian Casel hosts a candid conversation with Val Sopi and Christian Genco about the realities of launching new SaaS products in 2025. All three founders are at pivotal moments in their entrepreneurial journeys, wrestling with what products to build next, how to balance consulting work with product development, and finding the elusive "founder-product fit" that makes building a business su
Is doing YouTube a good business?
Marie Poulin and Aaron Francis join us to discuss the realities of building creator-driven businesses. We talked a lot about YouTube (they describe how each got traction there) and their current video making process. They also challenged conventional wisdom about sticking to one niche. For them, pivoting between projects keeps them fresh and prevents burnout, even when the traditional wis
Should you still build in public? Peldi (Balsamiq) and Jay Clouse (Creator Science)
Peldi is the founder of Balsamiq and pioneered transparent business building in 2007. In this episode, he came to the Panel looking advice on "build in public." We invited Jay Clouse, of Creator Science, on to share his wisdom. Jay had tons of practical suggestions for SaaS founders looking to build community and build in public in an authentic way.Chapters:(00:08) - Introduction of The P
The business of open source - Caleb Porzio (Livewire) and Taylor Otwell (Laravel)
Is web development still a good career choice in 2025? What's the future of open source? Justin and Brian dive deep with Taylor Otwell (Laravel) and Caleb Porzio (Livewire, Alpine.js, Flux) about the state of web dev, building a business on open source, and the anxiety of managing competition.Chapters:(03:31) - Should people still pursue web development as a career?
(11:04) - Are we still
SaaS predictions for 2025 – Colleen Schnettler and Tyler King
Is bootstrapping a SaaS dead in 2025? How will AI affect software development as an industry? What's working when it comes to marketing?Justin Jackson (Transistor.fm) and Brian Casel (Instrumental Products) are joined by Colleen Schnettler (SaaS Marketing Gym) and Tyler King (Less Annoying CRM) to debate our predictions for the new year. CHAPTERS:0:00 - What to expect3:25 - Is SaaS Gettin
The Panel – smart founders discuss the realities of building a business
When it comes to bootstrapping and building software, there's rarely one correct answer.The secret to building better products, profitable companies, and a better life is knowing how to find the best answer for you. That’s the purpose of The Panel podcast. Join hosts Justin (Transistor.fm) and Brian Casel (Instrumental Products) in each episode as they bring together a panel of founders,
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